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Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of ... - Donald C, 16 Jan 08:01PM
     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Robin Walker, 16 Jan 10:08PM
         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 16 Jan 11:34PM
             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 17 Jan 06:02AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 06:14AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 06:40AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Laurence Payne, 17 Jan 01:11PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 17 Jan 07:07PM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Laurence Payne, 17 Jan 08:59PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 11:28PM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 18 Jan 04:15AM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 18 Jan 04:17AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Calvin Godfrey, 18 Jan 06:38PM

Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Donald C - 16 Jan 08:01PM
I'm using Sibelius First 6.2.0 (yeah, yeah, very old, but my needs are limited).

I have two voices in the bass clef of a piano score, and I find that the second voice doesn't align with the first voice or with what's going on in the treble clef. In other words, notes in the second voice that should be sounded at the same time as notes in the first voice and in the treble clef are not in the same horizontal position, which makes reading the music harder. See attached picture - it's from Part IIc of the Koln Concert, in case you're wondering.

How do I shift the horizontal location of individual notes?
Attachment Capture.JPG.jpg (24K)

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Robin Walker - 16 Jan 10:08PM
The rule is this: in passages of two voices:
- stem-up notes must be in Voice 1;
- stem-down notes must be in Voice 2.

It looks as if that rule has not been followed.

--
Sibelius 2024.10/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Donald C - 16 Jan 11:34PM
Thanks. Useful to know. I fixed that problem but I still have the horizontal spacing problem. Any solutions?

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Donald C - 17 Jan 06:02AM
I tried experimenting and am confused about this rule. When inputting notes in a given voice, if they are near the bottom of the bass clef, Sibelius gives them a stem up. If they are near the top, the stem points down. If this is a rule, Sibelius itself isn't following it. Can someone point me to more detailed documentation about this rule so I can see exactly what it says?

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 17 Jan 06:14AM (edited 17 Jan 06:39AM)

The rule given by Robin applies only in multi-part (polyphonic) writing. If there is only a single Voice 1 without other voices, then the stem direction, as you noted, will change automatically according to the staff position, which is normal music notation practice. This breaks no rules. Once you add in Voice 2, all the stem-down notes in Voice 1 will automatically go stem-up, complying with the rule, which is only now invoked.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 17 Jan 06:40AM
>> but I still have the horizontal spacing problem. Any solutions?

If you post your actual Sibelius file, rather than a picture of it, someone (not me at this stage) will likely help you.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Jan 01:11PM
See attached screenshot. Voice 1 is blue, Voice 2 is green. Don't worry about stem directions until both voices are entered, Sibelius will probably get it right all by itself.

Selecting a passage then pressing Shift-V swaps Voices 1 and 2. This can be useful if things get in a muddle.
Attachment Screenshot 2025-01-17 130706.png (16K)

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Donald C - 17 Jan 07:07PM
Many thanks to all for your help. To Mark: I'm really looking for the "teach a man to fish" solution, not the "give a man a fish" solution, so I'd really like to know how to do this myself. I've seen other online answers to this question that say to click on the note, and then adjust what is called its "X-dimension" under "Properties". But that option does not seem to exist in my version of Sibelius. Perhaps that was a feature that was added in later versions? Again, if someone knows how to do this in Sibelius 6 First I'd love to hear from you.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Jan 08:59PM (edited 18 Jan 03:03AM)
I think Sibelius 6 First was roughly equivalent functionally to the current Sibelius Artist, so I'm not surprised to learn it lacks a lot of the Properties (now Inspector) functions.

But I think the basic 4-voice functionality is pretty universal. The voice-allocation advice implicit in the attachment to my previous message should apply.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 17 Jan 11:28PM (edited 18 Jan 04:16AM)

>> To Mark: I'm really looking for the "teach a man to fish" solution, not the "give a man a fish" solution, so I'd really like to know how to do this myself.

Isn't it Laurence who is the one who (in your words) "gave you a fish" in reworking your own musical example in his screenshot? I merely explained that the voices stem direction rule does not apply when there is only Voice 1 alone, in answer to a question you had raised re Sibelius' own behaviour.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Donald C - 18 Jan 04:15AM
Sorry, my mistake. I probably misidentified who sent the message in question by looking above it when I should have looked below or vice versa. First time user of this forum.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 18 Jan 04:17AM

Not a problem: was scratching my head for a while but concluded it was mistaken identity; easy enough to do.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of notes to align treble and bass clefs
Posted by Calvin Godfrey - 18 Jan 06:38PM (edited 18 Jan 06:38PM)

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position of ... - Donald C, 16 Jan 08:01PM
     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Robin Walker, 16 Jan 10:08PM
         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 16 Jan 11:34PM
             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 17 Jan 06:02AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 06:14AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 06:40AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Laurence Payne, 17 Jan 01:11PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 17 Jan 07:07PM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Laurence Payne, 17 Jan 08:59PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 17 Jan 11:28PM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Donald C, 18 Jan 04:15AM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Mark Isaacs, 18 Jan 04:17AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.x: How to change horizontal position... - Calvin Godfrey, 18 Jan 06:38PM