Messages in this thread

Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his posit... - MagickMike, 06 Jan 01:59PM
     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - avidmarianna, 06 Jan 09:10PM
         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 06 Jan 11:45PM
             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 07 Jan 01:44AM
                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Miles, 07 Jan 01:21PM
                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - MagickMike, 10 Jan 01:26PM
                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 10 Jan 07:58PM
                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Musix4me, 11 Jan 07:17PM
                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 09:08PM
                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 09:11PM
                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - MagickMike, 11 Jan 10:03PM
                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 10:38PM
                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 11 Jan 11:23PM
                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Musix4me, 11 Jan 11:53PM
                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 12 Jan 12:47AM
                                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 12 Jan 01:23AM
                                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 12 Jan 01:36AM
                                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Adrian Drover, 12 Jan 09:59AM
                                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 12 Jan 05:52PM
                                                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 12 Jan 05:58PM
                                                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Peter Roos, 14 Jan 04:43AM

Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by MagickMike - 06 Jan 01:59PM (edited 06 Jan 02:00PM)
It doesn't sound like Avid will be doing much to improve Sibelius now.

Mike

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by avidmarianna - 06 Jan 09:10PM (edited 06 Jan 09:33PM)
Happy New Year Mike,

While Justin's loss is unfortunate, and it's sad to see Justin go, we can assure you that Sibelius product design and development across Windows, Mac, iOS, Android and the web will not be affected. We have an exciting roadmap planned for 2025 and we're looking forward to releasing our first update soon. Sam Butler is still driving the product direction and feature set and has been for a long time.

Marianna

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 06 Jan 11:45PM (edited 07 Jan 01:35AM)

I was very impressed with Justin, and am sorry he has gone, but won't be "doom-saying" about the product, something that is always grounded in supposition, and, it seems to me, some people's propensity to be negative. The floodgates opened big time with all that when Daniel and some of the team left, but here we are 13 years later, with product development alive and well, though of course not beyond criticism or improvement.

I thank Marianna for her reassuring post (it would be good to know your surname and Avid email address). With Finale gone, it can't be healthy for the music notation software market to end up with only one flagship product, Dorico, an outcome I see some are already predicting elsewhere based on one person's departure here, so I would prefer to believe in Sam and the rest of the current team, and indeed Avid itself.

See you all here in another 13 years!

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Laurence Payne - 07 Jan 01:44AM (edited 07 Jan 12:05PM)
The role of 'Senior Product Designer' has been abolished. But "...Sibelius product design and development across Windows, Mac, iOS, Android and the web will not be affected."

These situations always bring out the Doublethink.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Miles - 07 Jan 01:21PM
Unfortunately, Sibelius has not had a significant update in almost 15 years. Many sections are now essentially useless (VST, video, mixer). The piano roll? Automation? Modern notation? Nope.
And many bugs seem to have been ignored for almost a decade…

Sibelius is no longer able to compete with Dorico in terms of capabilities, and unless the developers of Sibelius pull their act together, Dorico will soon dominate the market.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by MagickMike - 10 Jan 01:26PM (edited 10 Jan 01:36PM)
Miles, you are correct. And that mixer is useless. It doesn't show the levels of the individual instruments.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 Jan 07:58PM
> Sibelius is no longer able to compete with Dorico in terms of capabilities, and unless the developers of Sibelius pull their act together

Miles - My only hope is that they don't force everyone onto 'subscriptions'. I would definitely leave, albeit I would be devastated. Paul

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Musix4me - 11 Jan 07:17PM
There are two things, primarily, holding me with Sibelius:

1. Keypad note entry method.
2. NotePerformer compatibility.

If Musescore would do those two things, you all would not have to listen to my kvetching anymore.

Speaking of kvetching...I have another post to write.

--
Robert Moody
https://www.musix4me.com
Windows 11, Sibelius Ultimate 2024.10, Note Performer 4
Intel Core I9 13900K @ 5.8 GHz, 128.0GB DDR5 6000, 24Gb NVIDIA 4090, 1Gbit Fiber

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 Jan 09:08PM
> If Musescore would do those two things, you all would not have to listen to my kvetching anymore.

Robert,

("kvetching") Is it Yiddish?

Paul

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 Jan 09:11PM
> NotePerformer compatibility.

Robert,

I had a couple of teething problems when I first purchased NP4, but after that it's been truly fantastic. As others have agreed, an absolute bargain for what it does.

Paul

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by MagickMike - 11 Jan 10:03PM (edited 11 Jan 10:04PM)
Robert, Dorico works as well with Noteperformer as it does with Sibelius. And I love the combination.

Mike

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 Jan 10:38PM
> Dorico works as well with Noteperformer as it does with Sibelius. And I love the combination.

MagickMike,

If you are arranging a Jazz chart then do you still use NP4 for the brass-section? Or do you use a different sound-source, please?

Thanks.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Jan 11:23PM (edited 12 Jan 12:34AM)
> > If Musescore would do those two things, you all would not have to listen to my kvetching anymore.
>
> Robert,
>
> ("kvetching") Is it Yiddish?
>

Yes. And it's a pretty good description of a lot of what goes on in these forums. :-)

'And is ANYTHING about Sibelius to your satisfaction, Mr Musix4me?'

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Musix4me - 11 Jan 11:53PM (edited 11 Jan 11:55PM)
There ARE many things wonderful about Sibelius! But it is a balancing act.

How many are frustrating (and for how long) vs. good?
Also, juxtapose these with the competition.

Sibelius has a long list of small issues that have lasted for years and have not been addressed. [Please note: A community member coming up with a plug-in to add functionality or fix issues that should be in the program proper is not addressing the issue.] When you see these new companies (relatively) do everything Sibelius is doing and happen to notice they are addressing issues much faster, you have to start to re-evaluate that scale.

--
Robert Moody
https://www.musix4me.com
Windows 11, Sibelius Ultimate 2024.10, Note Performer 4
Intel Core I9 13900K @ 5.8 GHz, 128.0GB DDR5 6000, 24Gb NVIDIA 4090, 1Gbit Fiber

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Jan 12:47AM
"A community member coming up with a plug-in to add functionality or fix issues that should be in the program proper is not addressing the issue."

Of course it is! And the contributions of Bob Zawalich (and other less prolific, plugin contributors) are an important part of Sibelius.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 12 Jan 01:23AM (edited 12 Jan 01:25AM)

My community frustration and concern here is with something like this very recent thread https://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=773631&groupid=3&

A user complains about poor functionality in an aspect of the program, but the fact is the issue has been addressed years ago (by the program builders, not by a plugin) but they are apparently not aware of this and continue to use their legacy workflow. Forum members patiently explain how to use the program properly, but they either don't return to the thread they started, or if they do, don't acknowledge they are up to speed with it now.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 12 Jan 01:36AM (edited 12 Jan 11:16AM)
Musix4me wrote: "When you see these new companies (relatively) do everything Sibelius is doing and happen to notice they are addressing issues much faster, you have to start to re-evaluate that scale." [italics mine]

"everything" is not true. "much faster" is not always true.

I have pointed out here before that Dorico does not offer the functionality to compare two versions of a file and list the differences. Sibelius has offered this for years. It is a godsend. Users asked for this in the Dorico forum ages ago, but no promise has been made to implement it. Daniel S. just says "No, Dorico cannot do this" without his usual "but we hope to do it soon".

Same for true Full Screen (i.e. no toolbars at all; not available in Dorico and no indication that it will come) which Sibelius 6 as least delivered in Windows before it was taken away in Sibelius 7, but Justin promised it would return, and I don't assume that intention evaporated when he did.

With its new ability to hide individual notes in homophonic chords, Sibelius is moving toward what might be an automated mechanism to decondense score staffs with multiple instruments into separate parts. With the new feature, it can be done now in all scenarios through some manual steps, and a user plugin would automate it. Dorico insists that "Condense" is the way to go, mandating that users enter each individual instrument into a separate staff and then let the program make the condensed score, which is anathema to me.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 3.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Jan 09:59AM
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 Jan 21:08
("kvetching") Is it Yiddish?
================================

Yes, tho' in Yiddish it means pressing or squeezing. In English, kvetch means complain, grumble, whine, make a fuss. My Jewish better half says I should know, as I do it all the time.

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 12 Jan 05:52PM
> Yes. And it's a pretty good description of a lot of what goes on in these forums. :-)

LOL - Cheers, Laurence! Paul

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 12 Jan 05:58PM
> Yes, tho' in Yiddish it means pressing or squeezing. In English, kvetch means complain, grumble, whine, make a fuss. My Jewish better half says I should know, as I do it all the time.

Ade - Thanks a lot. My most recent two girlfriends were of Jewish descent, which is how I began to pick-up such phrases. I actually had to visit Google Pronounce this afternoon in order to be able to articulate the term. Paul

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Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his position eliminated
Posted by Peter Roos - 14 Jan 04:43AM

"Your position is eliminated" is corporate speak for "you are fired".

I can only speculate about what is going on here. Personal issues? Avid repeating 2012 all over again?

Justin Tokke is uniquely qualified when it comes to engraving, and knowledge of Sibelius.

It's a sad day for Sibelius.

--
Peter Roos
2024
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Messages in this thread

Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his posit... - MagickMike, 06 Jan 01:59PM
     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - avidmarianna, 06 Jan 09:10PM
         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 06 Jan 11:45PM
             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 07 Jan 01:44AM
                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Miles, 07 Jan 01:21PM
                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - MagickMike, 10 Jan 01:26PM
                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 10 Jan 07:58PM
                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Musix4me, 11 Jan 07:17PM
                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 09:08PM
                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 09:11PM
                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - MagickMike, 11 Jan 10:03PM
                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 11 Jan 10:38PM
                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 11 Jan 11:23PM
                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Musix4me, 11 Jan 11:53PM
                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Laurence Payne, 12 Jan 12:47AM
                                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 12 Jan 01:23AM
                                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Mark Isaacs, 12 Jan 01:36AM
                                                         Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Adrian Drover, 12 Jan 09:59AM
                                                             Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 12 Jan 05:52PM
                                                                 Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - monsterjazzlicks, 12 Jan 05:58PM
                                                                     Re: Justin Tokke was laid off by Avid and his p... - Peter Roos, 14 Jan 04:43AM