Messages in this thread

How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 21 Mar 09:14PM
     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Philip Woodroffe, 21 Mar 10:37PM
         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 21 Mar 11:21PM
     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Robin Walker, 22 Mar 10:41AM
         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 06:02PM
             Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Robin Walker, 22 Mar 06:23PM
                 Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Bob Zawalich, 22 Mar 08:33PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 09:14PM
                 Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 08:53PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - David, 23 Mar 01:59AM
                         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Laurence Payne, 23 Mar 12:53PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Ingrid, 23 Mar 03:04PM

How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Eugene - 21 Mar 09:14PM
I bought Sibelius years ago and last year I needed support about an issue. I ended up buying the Sibelius Ultimate program ($79 p/year) which is worthless because I still had to pay $29 for a phone call that wasn't even very good support.

Now I'm told that if I don't renew the Sibelius Ultimate program then I won't be able to use my Sibelius program.
Avid is saying it has to do with their perpetual license.

I don't want to pay the $79 per year.
I just want to go back to my old Sibelius program.

Does anybody know how I can do this?

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 21 Mar 10:37PM

which version of sibelius is it and what type?
--
Macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.14 mojave and windows 10. 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive. noteperformer Sibelius 2019.9

Windows pc, i7 8th Gen 6 core, 16gb ram, m.2 NVME boot drive, 2TB spin drive 5200 rpm, and m.2 NVME drive 1TB storage drives.

East West symphonic choirs and east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

Musescore, Noteworthy composer, melody assistant and virtual singer.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Eugene - 21 Mar 11:21PM
Version is Sibelius 8.5.1 build 659
I don't know what you mean by type. Please explain.
Thanks

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Mar 10:41AM (edited 22 Mar 10:44AM)
> Now I'm told that if I don't renew the Sibelius Ultimate program then I won't be able to use my Sibelius program.

Who told you that and what was their EXACT wording?

Also, please be precise: for your current "Sibelius Ultimate", do you hold a "Perpetual Licence" or a "Subscription Licence"?

You can find these things out by looking in your "My Avid" account at https://my.avid.com/products

--
Sibelius 2023.3/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Eugene - 22 Mar 06:02PM
Robin,

Here's a copy of the message from Charles David, Avid Global Customer Care on 3/21/2023 regarding case # 04600268:

"Upon checking your account, your recent order history shows that the charge you were referring to was Sibelius Ultimate.

Upon purchasing, auto-renewal is turned on by default.

We can go ahead and cancel it, but before that, I would just like to let you know that this was originally a crossgrade subscription, once the subscription is canceled, we can no longer return your old perpetual license.

To know the difference between perpetual and subscription licenses please see here: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/faq/What-is-the-difference-between-perpetual-and-subscription-licenses

Kindly confirm that you completely understand what I have stated above before coordinating with our team for the cancellation.

Hoping to hear from you soon.

Thank you and have a great day.

Warm Regards,
Charles"

I find the terminology (like perpetual license, subscription license) confusing since I have owned my Sibelius license for at least 10 years before having to contact Avid last year for an issue, I'm not sure what it's called. And I don't know if I have a perpetual or subscription license with Avid for Sibelius Ultimate.

I appreciate your help.
Thank you.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Mar 06:23PM
> And I don't know if I have a perpetual or subscription license with Avid for Sibelius Ultimate.

The quoted text from Avid Support makes it clear that, at some point in the past, you sacrificed your former Perpetual Licence for Sibelius, and traded it in (cross-grade) for a new Subscription Licence for Sibelius Ultimate, on special discount terms.

Therefore, whatever you may have had in the past, you no longer have a Perpetual Licence for Sibelius, and you now have a Subscription Licence. If you stop paying for the Subscription Licence each year, then your Sibelius Ultimate will stop working.

This cross-grade cannot be reversed. You cannot "go back to your old Sibelius": the Perpetual Licence you once had no longer exists.

--
Sibelius 2023.3/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Mar 08:33PM
Question: what is a person to do in a situation like this, where they cross-graded to the subscription license and then decide that is not what they wanted?

In an ideal world, I would hope that Avid would either be able to allow the user to revert to the Sib 8 license, or would have an option to upgrade to a perpetual license for Sibelius Ultimate, as if they still have the active 8.5 license.

A number of people converted to the subscription license when there was no good option to get an upgrade to a perpetual license other than paying $600 USD for a full perpetual license to Ultimate. There is currently a more reasonable upgrade to a perpetual license $149), though it is not available to someone on a subscription. Furthermore the $79 subscription price was a discount that would be good for only 2 years following a crossgrade. Continuing the subscription after 2 years is $199/year.

Continuing the subscription appears to be the only available option.

Doing a crossgrade is really a different situation than someone who just started with a subscription and then wanted the perpetual version. So it would seem to me that allowing someone to revert to their previous license (and then perhaps reinstate from there to Sibelius Ultimate Perpetual) would a reasonable accommodation to people who find themselves in this position.

I suspect a number of people who unwillingly crossgraded to a subscription will find themselves in this position, especially when the $79 subscription becomes a $199 subscription.

If I were in this situation, I might seriously consider moving over to MuseScore, which is free. Keep Sibelius long enough (or pick up a monthly subscription) to convert your files to MusicXML so they can be opened, with some loss of data, to MuseScore.

Good luck with all this, Eugene.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2022+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2023.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/sibelius/
Execute Commands plugin documentation: https://bobzawalich.com/execute-commands-plugin-documentation/

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Eugene - 22 Mar 09:14PM
Bob,
You put it into words so beautifully about 'what if' someone wants to revert to their previous Sibelius license. And you provided some great ideas for Avid to keep their customers on Sibelius. I too will be looking into using MuseScore if the annual price goes up to $199 next year. (Thanks for telling me.)
I really appreciate your comment.
Thank you.
Eugene

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Eugene - 22 Mar 08:53PM
Thank you, Robin. I appreciate your reply and explanation.
It's too bad that we didn't understand what it meant when we bought the subscription or that it wasn't very well explained that the old license would no longer exist.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by David - 23 Mar 01:59AM
Maybe you can privately contact them and ask for a better deal, explaining that you didn't understand the finality of giving up the previous version. Maybe it's me but I vastly prefer Sibelius to Musescore and would consider biting the bullet for the full version of Sibelius or something. I suggest just downloading Musescore for curiosity and see if you like it.

--
Ultimate 2023.2, Windows 11

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Laurence Payne - 23 Mar 12:53PM
At least the Avid representative you spoke to understood your position and explained it clearly, even if it wasn't what you'd have liked to hear. And when you relinquished your perpetual licence in exchange for a period of discounted rental (I guess you were burnt by the Apple disaster?) it arguably was your best option.

Life isn't fair. "The value of your investments can go down as well as up". But Avid could make this situation a bit more fair if they chose to.

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Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program?
Posted by Ingrid - 23 Mar 03:04PM

Hi Eugene,

Could you email the case number assigned to you so that I can look into it. Thanks


--
Ingrid
Avid Customer Support
ingrid.guce@avid.com

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Messages in this thread

How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 21 Mar 09:14PM
     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Philip Woodroffe, 21 Mar 10:37PM
         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 21 Mar 11:21PM
     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Robin Walker, 22 Mar 10:41AM
         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 06:02PM
             Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Robin Walker, 22 Mar 06:23PM
                 Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Bob Zawalich, 22 Mar 08:33PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 09:14PM
                 Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Eugene, 22 Mar 08:53PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - David, 23 Mar 01:59AM
                         Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Laurence Payne, 23 Mar 12:53PM
                     Re: How can I go back to my old Sibelius program? - Ingrid, 23 Mar 03:04PM