'Artificial harmonics (for guitar)'

Messages in this thread

Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 15 Mar 07:21PM
     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 15 Mar 07:57PM
         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 15 Mar 10:52PM
             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 16 Mar 07:44AM
                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:00PM
                     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:50PM
                         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:58PM
                             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 16 Mar 03:35PM
                                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 06:00PM
                                     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - James, 16 Mar 07:36PM
                                         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 17 Mar 08:07AM
                                             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - James, 17 Mar 09:12PM
                                                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Bob Zawalich, 17 Mar 10:00PM

Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 15 Mar 07:21PM
I'm having an issue when trying to create artificial harmonics for guitar parts.
As far as I can see, the only way I can do this is by adding a second note on top of the note I'm playing for the pitch of the harmonic, and changing the note head to a diamond shape. This is fine with me (I don't care about playback in this case. Just the notation). My issue is that this new note is also added to the TAB stave for the part, and I have found NO way of hiding it. Does anyone know of a way of overriding this so I can have these parts show up properly?

Overall, I find Sibelius still quite limited when it comes to scoring for guitars. I hope things can continue to improve in this regard.

Thanks a lot in advance!
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 15 Mar 07:57PM
So I place a normal note on the 2nd line of the guitar staff and a diamond head on the 3rd space. This plays G5 sounding. On the dynamic TAB staff, I see a zero on the G line and a 1 on the B line (see attached). How would you normally write this on a TAB staff?
Attachment guitar harmonic.PNG.png (10K)
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 15 Mar 10:52PM
There would be a 0 on the G string, and then you add an "A.H." text under the note (artificial harmonic). That's all. The player would know they need to play a pinch harmonic on the G open string at the appropriate spot for the node to generate the specified overtone (in this example, the C would not be playable, but let's say you notated a D).
That's why I need to find a way of hiding the fretted note from the TAB stave, without hiding the diamond head note related to it.
Thanks Adrian!
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 16 Mar 07:44AM
OK, so if this is not for playback, you only write the open note on the G string and add the diamond head from zymbols. Hope this helps. I'm not a guitarist.
Attachment guitar harmonic 2.PNG.png (15K)
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 16 Mar 12:00PM
Thanks a lot Adrian! That should do it. I was adding a new note instead of just a symbol. I'll try that out. Cheers!
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 16 Mar 12:50PM
Hmmm... looks like I ran into a limitation with this method.
If the harmonic I need to add is outside of the range of the stave's lines, and I need to add leger lines, then magnetic layout starts messing things a LOT. I can add the leger lines using symbols, but I cannot place the note over them.

Ah, the complexity of simple tasks... :-|
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 16 Mar 12:58PM
Here's an example of what I need to do. You will see two representations of the artificial harmonic. The first one is an actual note, which has the drawback of being added to the TAB stave. The second one is as a symbol, which has the drawback of not generating the required leger lines.

So... kinda stuck here either way.
Attachment AH_example.jpg (39K)
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 16 Mar 03:35PM
Seems like Avid have work to do on this problem. See attached example for artificial harmonic, showing fret numbers for stopped note and node position (bracketed). This can be faked on a tab only part, by typing in the node position manually. No such luck with dynamic tab.
Attachment guitar harmonic 3.PNG.png (2K)
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Toonman - 16 Mar 06:00PM
Yeah, I also thought about that... separating the staves. In my case, that would just create more work for me, so I guess I'll leave it as-is. I might have to later re-create the part in Guitar Pro and somehow merge everything together. We'll see.

Thanks a lot Adrian!
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by James - 16 Mar 07:36PM
By the way, I would write "P.H." for Pinch Harmonic instead of "A.H." because there are a number of other ways to produce artificial harmonics.


--
Mac OS 12.6 Monterey
Sibelius Ultimate 2023.2
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 17 Mar 08:07AM (edited 17 Mar 08:11AM)
From my research as a non-guitarist, I presume that harmonics and artificial harmonics are only played at the octave, not at the 15th as is the case in string playing. Is this correct? Or is it possible to stop a string with the first finger and touch the quarter node (4th above) with the pinkie to play a 15th. It works fine in Sib for guitar playback. I've never understood why "artificial harmonic" is so called. Seems to me that it is just as real as an open string harmonic.
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by James - 17 Mar 09:12PM
It is possible to "to stop a string with the first finger and touch the quarter node (4th above) with the pinkie to play a 15th." But that's not how it's usually done. For notes lower on the fingerboard (close to the nut), that's too big of a left hand stretch. For notes higher on the fingerboard, the resulting harmonic will be quite high pitched and not very loud. It is much more common to use the left hand only to fret the note. Various right hand techniques are used to touch at nodes. For many of these techniques, the octave (first) harmonic is most common.

Pinch harmonics are done by touching the thumb holding the pick to the string at a node immediately after sounding the note with the pick. They are a common rock technique. For example, they are prominent in the ending solo of ZZ Top's La Grange. They can also be executed on upstrokes by using the index finger instead of the thumb to catch the harmonic. But this is much less common.

Why things are called what they are is due to convention. Natural harmonics are harmonics of open strings. Artificial harmonics are harmonics of fretted notes.

--
Mac OS 12.6 Monterey
Sibelius Ultimate 2023.3
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar)
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 17 Mar 10:00PM (edited 18 Mar 08:09PM)
(Edited)

The best thing I can come up with would be to create a piece of Technique text with < followed by 1 or more spaces, then a >. Set magnetic layout off, and and copy with ctrl+c. Select a Tab number, and paste with ctrl+v. If will align pretty well horizontally, and vertically it will always go to the 3rd staff line from the top. So you should get good alignment for notes on that string. For other lines, use the up/down arrow keys get move vertically to the desired staff line. Zoom in close to enable precise alignment with the staff line. Not having to do horizontal alignment is a big plus.

You can also copy by alt+clicking with the mouse near a number. I find you can get pretty close by clicking a bit to the left of the lower left corner of the number.

As with any fake such as this, the <> will not stick with the notes if you change or delete the notes, so check on the <> if you do major reformatting.

If by chance you could live with using () instead of <> as indicators, you could just used the bracket notehead instruction on the keypad, which works fine with tab numbers.

In some cases one can find the symbols used by a Sib command, such as accidentals, and replace the symbol with a different one that you like, but in the case of bracketed noteheads, the brackets are drawn so they can resize, so there is no symbol to change.

Anyway, I can see the utility of having some way to mark the tab numbers in some way. I hope something can be worked out.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2022+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2023.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/sibelius/
Execute Commands plugin documentation: https://bobzawalich.com/execute-commands-plugin-documentation/
Attachment snap1.png (43K)
Back to top | All threads
 

Quick reply

To add a reply to the end of this thread, type it below, then click Reply.

(.sib, .png and .jpg only)

Messages in this thread

Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 15 Mar 07:21PM
     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 15 Mar 07:57PM
         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 15 Mar 10:52PM
             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 16 Mar 07:44AM
                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:00PM
                     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:50PM
                         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 12:58PM
                             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 16 Mar 03:35PM
                                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Toonman, 16 Mar 06:00PM
                                     Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - James, 16 Mar 07:36PM
                                         Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Adrian Drover, 17 Mar 08:07AM
                                             Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - James, 17 Mar 09:12PM
                                                 Re: Artificial harmonics (for guitar) - Bob Zawalich, 17 Mar 10:00PM