Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 20 Oct 09:29PM Hide picture Hi folks, I have completed quite a few jazz pieces in Sibelius 8.6 now. But one question/issue has arisen and I think it's time for me to address it in the hope of taking my charts to the next level! (Please see two screengrabs below.) Sib. often places the 'articulations' within the stave, or slightly above it (eg. half-in and half-out of the top-line-F in treble clef). Personally I came come to dislike this (default setting) aspect (as I would like them to all be sat above the stave). I am not sure if these fall under the term 'collisions'? Therefore I am wondering if I could (globally) raise these within 'Engraving Rules', or similar, please? Otherwise it is literally going to take me close to a lifetime to manually drag/reposition every damn accent, staccato, etc, to the desired position! I hope that I have explained my question clearly and accurately enough. Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here. Best, Paul David Seaman (UK) Sibelius 8.6 (v. 2018.1 / build 1449 / born 2018-01-22) Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10, 16GB RAM, 1.70gHz, 64-bit, Intel Core i3. paulseaman1 (at) hotmail (dot) com Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 20 Oct 09:31PM Hide picture ... this is where Sib. places the 'articulations' by default; I think it makes for tricky sight-reading: Attachment default.png (296K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 20 Oct 09:34PM Hide picture ... here is the same passage with the offending 'articulations' manually raised by my good-self!; having them sitting ABOVE the stave, rather than buried, makes the chart more easy-on-the-eye, in my opinion: Attachment edited.png (327K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Robin Walker - 20 Oct 10:52PM Hide picture Engraving Rules -> Articulations -> Allowed in staff (uncheck). -- Sibelius 2020.9/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 20 Oct 11:29PM Hide picture > Engraving Rules -> Articulations -> Allowed in staff (uncheck). Many thanks, Robin. Really, is that it? Surely there are another 99 boxes to uncheck? I can't have this thread closing so soon after creating it! lol :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 Oct 12:12AM Hide picture And before I've had a chance to say 'Haven't you anything more important to worry about?'. :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 12:26AM Hide picture > And before I've had a chance to say 'Haven't you anything more important to worry about?'. :-) Ha ha, Laurence; yes, quite! Actually I did have - I had bloody Covid for two weeks last month. ;-( Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 21 Oct 01:41AM Hide picture I'm sorry to hear that, Paul. -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 01:46AM Hide picture Thanks a lot, Mark. I caught it either in Walmart or in the gym. I had to self-isolate for 2 weeks, but luckily I live alone so I didn't pass it on to anyone. I hope that you and your wife are managing to remain safe. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Oct 05:27AM Hide picture I'm happy that you've recovered, Paul. Missed you on the forum. Regarding, your articulation problem, here are some words from Johnny Mercer. "You've got to accentuate the positive Eliminate the negative And latch on to the affirmative Don't mess with mister in-between" Cheers, Ade. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 09:14AM Hide picture Cheers for your concerns and also for relaying those wise old words, Adrian. I hope that you are keeping well and musically active. Thanks, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Chris Crawley - 22 Oct 02:49PM Hide picture "I had bloody Covid for two weeks last month." I'm very sorry to hear that and hope you're getting free of it now. I am still in a state of dread about catching it. Although I'm generally fit, my age is against me. A friend, the British-Russian composer Dmitri Smirnov, died of Covid at the beginning of April in a hospital near here. It gave me a shock which I have never got beyond. He was four years younger than me. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Dorico Pro 3.1.10, Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer 3.5, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7, 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 cjcrawley@hotmail.com Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 08:25PM (edited 21 Oct 08:27PM) Hide picture > Engraving Rules -> Articulations -> Allowed in staff (uncheck). Hi Robin, It looks totally awesome to my eyes, now! Aggghhhhhh, to even think that I was considering going through all my scores/parts and rendering these by-hand!!! ;-( Paul Attachment artics.png (258K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 08:36PM Hide picture ... I was actually wondering, all day today, if most forum users favour such placement of having the articulations above the stave, rather than buried within? I think the fact that Sib. has this 'instant' feature available is superb, and completely tailored to my personal needs and preferences. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Oct 10:26PM Hide picture Yes, all articulations above the staff and clear of the staff. The player's eye should not have to dart from above to below. I'm disappointed that slurs cannot also be set to always above. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 21 Oct 11:11PM Hide picture > Yes, all articulations above the staff and clear of the staff. The player's eye should not have to dart from above to below. Thank-you for your professional clarification, Adrian. I've owned Sib. for circa 6 years and never even considered this aspect. Goodness knows how many other engraving matters are passing me by! Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 22 Oct 01:41AM (edited 22 Oct 06:32AM) Hide picture I don't do what is your preference, Paul, and tradition and convention in, at least, printed folios agree with me. Putting them always clear of the staff often moves them too far away, producing just the kind of "eye darting" Adrian says he foreswears. In traditional best practice, the articulation should be near the notehead (or stem, but that only in the case of multi-stemmed polyphonic writing) and at a constant distance from it and this means they are quite properly often placed inside the staff, as long as they are positioned carefully in a staff space and not obscured by a staff line. When the stems are up, even putting them "above" (whether within the staff or outside it) is not traditional best practice, except for strong "hat" accents: apart from these, articulations should be at the note end, not the stem end, unless it is multi-voice writing, so thus apart from strong "hat" accents they go below when stems are up in single voice. You might have also reset another Sibelius default to achieve "always above" articulations, Paul, and Adrian too! Or maybe it's a default for the Inkpen font? Anyway, see Elaine Gould Behind Bars: page 117-119 So, since Paul asked: I follow the printed folio long-standing best practice that Elaine Gould codifies, and which Sibelius, for good reason, does by default. But: "Your mileage may vary" (as a certain long-evaporated poster here used to say). The hand-copying jazz/commercial roots vs. printed (classical) folio traditions may well be at play here. -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 22 Oct 06:48AM Hide picture I've always followed Roemer (page 50) on this, tho' his book is aimed at manuscript preparation. I prefer to see all articulation and phrasing in line above the staff, and I've hung on to my hand writing preference into the computer age because it still makes sense to me. Exception is when voice 2 (stems down) is rhythmically different to voice 1, or for short slurs between pairs of low notes. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 22 Oct 07:23AM (edited 22 Oct 11:06AM) Hide picture I think it might be better for handwritten music to place articulations outside the staff. It maybe can be quite tricky to position them inside the staff avoiding staff lines and with the requisite thickness from pen. Understandable you've hung on to this. Roemer vs. Gould! :) As I've said before, there's two general schools of notation traditions at play here: printed classical folios and handwritten (originally) jazz/commercial charts. Both have hung onto their conventions into the computer age, with programs doing their best to cater to both, and all the other traditions of notation. I'm only "right" within the tradition I am adhering to (which I admit I force onto the jazz players I write for). But Paul did ask what others do... -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 22 Oct 11:45AM (edited 22 Oct 11:51AM) Hide picture While we're on this subject, I've just noticed that 3 articulations are not showing in my engraving rules chart (see attached). I wonder why. PS. Sorry, fugiddabowdit. Seems the columns are reserved for custom artics. Attachment artic chart.PNG.png (8K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 22 Oct 12:15PM Hide picture I'm only "right" within the tradition I am adhering to (which I admit I force onto the jazz players I write for). =========================================== Aw, shucks, Mark. Jazz players do their own thing anyway ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 22 Oct 09:11PM Hide picture > I think it might be better for handwritten music to place articulations outside the staff. It maybe can be quite tricky to position them inside the staff avoiding staff lines and with the requisite thickness from pen. Understandable you've hung on to this. Mark - I had never considered that but I think you are correct. My 'old' arrangements had all of the articulations placed outside (above/below) the staff. I agree that it would be quite fiddly to place staccato markings exactly between two staves! Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 22 Oct 09:14PM Hide picture >I prefer to see all articulation and phrasing in line above the staff, and I've hung on to my hand writing preference into the computer age because it still makes sense to me. Ade - When I used to deploy phrase-markings (in Sib.) I always placed them above the stave. However, two years ago I switched over to using the breath-comma instead (much to Laurence's dismay!) ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 22 Oct 09:32PM Hide picture 1) OK, fair enough Mark; each to their own man ;-) 2) I'm still goin' with Adrian on the above-stave placement of articulations, though. 3) I'm already faffing around with so much stuff in Sib. that I need to move on to the next issue(e). I'm most happy with the results I am getting now regarding this latest matter. But there will, of course, be many more matters to follow in due course... 4) What you refer to as "hat" accents I have always called 'house-top'. Not sure if the later is correct but everyone seems to understand me! 5) I use, and have only ever used, the 'Jazzy Ink Pen' font. It's the closest to 'The Real Book.' Though a couple of copyists in London wrote out some of my arrangements using Sib. v3 in 2007 and used a completely different font - which I thought looked more than fine. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 23 Oct 12:19AM (edited 23 Oct 03:07AM) Hide picture > 1) OK, fair enough Mark; each to their own man ;-) > > 2) I'm still goin' with Adrian on the above-stave placement of articulations, though. > > 3) I'm already faffing around with so much stuff in Sib. that I need to move on to the next issue(e). I'm most happy with the results I am getting now regarding this latest matter. But there will, of course, be many more matters to follow in due course... > > 4) What you refer to as "hat" accents I have always called 'house-top'. Not sure if the later is correct but everyone seems to understand me! > > 5) I use, and have only ever used, the 'Jazzy Ink Pen' font. It's the closest to 'The Real Book.' Though a couple of copyists in London wrote out some of my arrangements using Sib. v3 in 2007 and used a completely different font - which I thought looked more than fine. I am in no way trying to convince you to do what I do, and/or not do what you are doing. I only posted what I do and why because you asked people to do that. "Hat"/"house top" accents: They're both colloquial illustrative terms so we use whichever suits! The correct technical terms are "Strong accent" or "Marcato accent". -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 22 Oct 09:38PM Hide picture > Anyway, see Elaine Gould Behind Bars: page 117-119 > > So, since Paul asked: I follow the printed folio long-standing best practice that Elaine Gould codifies, and which Sibelius, for good reason, does by default. But: "Your mileage may vary" (as a certain long-evaporated poster here used to say). The hand-copying jazz/commercial roots vs. printed (classical) folio traditions may well be at play here. Mark - Oh yes, Elaine Gould - the only woman in the world whom I would have married! ;-) I don't think I mentioned this but I moved house last month; so all of my books and synths etc are still boxed up. It's been a real nightmare to be honest, though this property is tons better than living in a 3rd floor flat (carrying a Fender Rhodes Piano downstairs every gig!!!). Anyway I'm back online and have Sib. up and running... Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 22 Oct 09:49PM (edited 22 Oct 09:49PM) Hide picture > I'm very sorry to hear that and hope you're getting free of it now. > I am still in a state of dread about catching it. Although I'm generally fit, my age is against me. A friend, the British-Russian composer Dmitri Smirnov, died of Covid at the beginning of April in a hospital near here. It gave me a shock which I have never got beyond. He was four years younger than me. Chris - Many thanks for your warm wishes. Well, it was like having glandular fever. I isolated for a couple of weeks until I got the all-clear from my GP about 10 days ago. I hope you manage to avoid it because it wipes you out energy-wise. Plus it's very stressful for obvious reasons. Yes, that is very distressing about your composer friend. This damn illness certainly knows know boundaries. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 23 Oct 06:24AM Hide picture "Hat"/"house top" accents: They're both colloquial illustrative terms so we use whichever suits! The correct technical terms are "Strong accent" or "Marcato accent". ================================================= In jazz & commercial terms, I have always understood the hat (marcato) to signify a short accent, most often on quarter notes in 4/4 time. Rather than plant a staccato together with a marcato which takes up too much vertical space, for playback purpose I change Live duration from default 256 to 128, but leave similarly accented 8th notes alone. This means I either have to edit duration on individual notes or do an advanced filter to isolate the notes which need to be shortened in duration. I wish there was an easier way to do this. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 23 Oct 06:55AM (edited 23 Oct 06:56AM) Hide picture > I don't think I mentioned this but I moved house last month; so all of my books and synths etc are still boxed up. It's been a real nightmare to be honest, though this property is tons better than living in a 3rd floor flat (carrying a Fender Rhodes Piano downstairs every gig!!!). Anyway I'm back online and have Sib. up and running... You also mentioned you lived alone. How in heaven's name is it possible for one person to carry a Fender Rhodes piano down 3 flights of stairs single-handedly, and, by implication, carrying it up 3 flights single-handedly upon returning from the gig! Egads. -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 23 Oct 11:05AM (edited 23 Oct 01:15PM) Hide picture Paul has the new antigravity Fender Rhodes model. "Hey dad, d'you know the piano's on my foot?" "You hum it,son, I'll play it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73QtwAOq8LA See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ngOd-maxN4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:07PM Hide picture > You also mentioned you lived alone. How in heaven's name is it possible for one person to carry a Fender Rhodes piano down 3 flights of stairs single-handedly, and, by implication, carrying it up 3 flights single-handedly upon returning from the gig! Egads. Mark - Well, because the staircase was not one massive continuation (eg. spiral) getting it down was not impossible. There were around 4 or 5 steps and then a landing/turn. So of course I could slide it; and then use a set of 'wheels' to get it to the car. All a complete pain of course, but possible - though I'm never doing it again now I am in my 50's! But getting the instrument back upstairs, alone, was simply not possible. Hence I would drag it into the porch and my neighbour would help me the next morning. Never live in a flat with 50+ steps to negotiate it you are a keys player (motto)! Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:09PM Hide picture > In jazz & commercial terms, I have always understood the hat (marcato) to signify a short accent, most often on quarter notes in 4/4 time. Ade - that has always been my perception/usage also. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:12PM Hide picture >I am in no way trying to convince you to do what I do, and/or not do what you are doing. I only posted what I do and why because you asked people to do that. Mark - Yes, I was (as I always am) interested in hearing what other people did in this particular scenario - otherwise I will continue to exist in a dark cave alone ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:16PM Hide picture >"Hat"/"house top" accents: They're both colloquial illustrative terms so we use whichever suits! The correct technical terms are "Strong accent" or "Marcato accent". Mark - Thanks a lot. I remember hearing the term "Marcato accent" whist studying theory many moons ago. But it's only, really, until you start writing your OWN music that you start experimenting and hearing what all of these symbols represent. I believe it's called 'experience!' ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:19PM Hide picture >See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ngOd-maxN4 Ade - I am sure that the L&H 'piano removal' sketch was on a public stairway leading to apartments, which was shared by local neighbours? I may be wrong though as I'm going back (from memory) over 40 years. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 23 Oct 01:21PM Hide picture >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73QtwAOq8LA Ade - Apparently, the PG Tips adverts got banned in the end because they were cruel. I think the reason was that if an monkey/ape 'smiles', then it means it feels terrified (rather than is 'happy')? Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 24 Oct 03:02PM (edited 24 Oct 03:05PM) Hide picture The_Music_Box - Wikipedia. The steps are a public staircase that connects Vendome Street (at the base of the hill) with Descanso Drive (at the top of the hill), and are located at 923-925 North Vendome Street near the intersection of Del Monte Drive. A plaque commemorating the film was set into one of the lower steps. My Alpine rope bridge piano removal sketch is obviously on a studio lot. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 23 Oct 02:51PM Hide picture >How in heaven's name is it possible for one person to carry a Fender Rhodes piano down 3 flights of stairs single-handedly, and, by implication, carrying it up 3 flights single-handedly upon returning from the gig! Egads. You've never put a band into the Cafe Royal then? :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 23 Oct 06:09PM Hide picture .....if an monkey/ape 'smiles', then it means it feels terrified ================================================ Well, Paul, I'm not surprised the chimp was unhappy. The piano landed on its foot ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 23 Oct 07:17PM Hide picture I didn't know that! But if you hummed it to me... Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 24 Oct 09:33PM Hide picture >The_Music_Box - Wikipedia. The steps are a public staircase that connects Vendome Street (at the base of the hill) with Descanso Drive (at the top of the hill), and are located at 923-925 North Vendome Street near the intersection of Del Monte Drive. A plaque commemorating the film was set into one of the lower steps. Ade - Oh, wow; so that was filmed on a real location? I never knew that. How amazing ;-) btw, have you seen the new-ish film of L&H? It's totally amazing, acting-wise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_%26_Ollie Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 24 Oct 09:42PM Hide picture > Well, Paul, I'm not surprised the chimp was unhappy. The piano landed on its foot ;-) Ade - I would be far more angry if an ape landed on my piano ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Feb 08:36PM Hide picture Hi guys, (I thought I would tag this new question onto an existing thread.) It is very much related to the same subject-matter, I believe. Please see below screengrabs. In certain instances, Sib. places an accent rather close (I feel) to 'connected' ties. I tried raising the accent-marking by two or three notches (as per 2nd attach.) and I do find it makes a pleasing improvement. Luckily, in the piece I have just finished arranging, there were not too many instances in which this 'collision' (call it what you may) occurs - hence, it was only a five minute job to make the amendment in all parts. My question is: do any users here object to the default placement of accents attached to certain tied-notes?; or do most of you just leave them as they are? I guess I am seeking a couple of second opinions here, please. btw - I have already made appropriate settings within 'Engraving Rules' so that all 'articulations' are to be positioned OUTSIDE of the stave; but I'm not sure if there is a 'dedicated' parameter whereby you can set all 'accented/tied' symbols to be placed a certain height above the note-head in question? Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here. Best, Paul David Seaman (UK) Attachment Accent_1.png (102K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Feb 08:38PM Hide picture . . . attach. 2: Attachment Accent_2.png (136K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Rob Tuley - 01 Feb 09:34PM Hide picture I'm not very bothered either way about the accent position, but the "sfz" should be centered on the note head, not wandering off to the left of the note. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Feb 11:05PM Hide picture > I'm not very bothered either way about the accent position, but the "sfz" should be centered on the note head, not wandering off to the left of the note. Many thanks for kindly responding, Rob. I appreciate your thoughts and I am always open to criticism (if I don't agree with it then I just ignore it!!!). Do you mean the 'F' should be in the centre of the note-head? Actually, I have found myself slightly moving any such (abbreviated) 'Italian term' symbols over to the left so that they appear somewhat in 'advance' of the note-head. Reason being, I am thinking it might be helpful for sight-reading purposes (yes, I know it's very subtle, but anything that may be of help I tend to apply/include). Cheers, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 02 Feb 12:34AM Hide picture Like Rob, I dislike your moving dynamics to the left to be "before" the note. The Sibelius default position is far better. The movement of the accents upwards is to my mind obsessive. Like Rob, I see nothing amiss in the default position. -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 12:40AM Hide picture > Like Rob, I dislike your moving dynamics to the left to be "before" the note. The Sibelius default position is far better. > > The movement of the accents upwards is to my mind obsessive. Like Rob, I see nothing amiss in the default position. Hi Mark, OK, so you just leave the accents in their default state, and abstain from dragging & dropping dynamics over to the left. Cheers, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 02 Feb 02:50AM Hide picture You bet. -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 03:06AM Hide picture > You bet. Cheers Mark, Well, as I say, the most recent chart I completed was relatively short - and so it was only a quick job to apply the repositionings. However, I'm not so sure I would invest much time in making the same adjustments in, say, a 10 minute big-band score! Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 02 Feb 06:44AM Hide picture I have on occasion, when a note is several legers below the staff, put the dynamic slightly to the left. The only alternative, in some cases, would be to drag the following staff down to make room, which in my mind doesn't look nice. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Mark Isaacs - 02 Feb 07:00AM (edited 02 Feb 07:21AM) Hide picture Yes, I also think extenuating circumstances would warrant a dynamic moves to the left, if it gives a worse layout result when it's not done. I've also done it for a note several leger lines down, to avoid an ungainly staff drag, or a very low LH piano note on the bottom system where it would blow out the staff and even page margins to force a dynamic below the note. But these are exceptions to the rule, and with a good cause behind them. Having said all that, I checked Elaine Gould, and found confirmation: pp. 102-13 "Centre the dynamic on the notehead....When vertical space is limited, move a dynamic to the left of the note..." -- A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, NotePerformer 3.3.2, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL. Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 05:59PM (edited 02 Feb 06:00PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by Rob Tuley - 02 Feb 01:58PM (edited 02 Feb 01:59PM) Hide picture > Do you mean the 'F' should be in the centre of the note-head? The whole symbol should be centered on the note head. If bar lines get in the way, you can erase the background. As Adrian said, if there are notes on leger lines below the staff you can move the whole symbol left to save vertical space. (Full disclosure: the attachment wasn't done in Sibelius) -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Attachment dynamic positioning.png (14K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 06:00PM Hide picture > I have on occasion, when a note is several legers below the staff, put the dynamic slightly to the left. The only alternative, in some cases, would be to drag the following staff down to make room, which in my mind doesn't look nice. That's very interesting thanks, Ade. Actually, I never often land in the situation described above; instead I always seem to be battling against 'washing-line syndrome!' Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 06:03PM Hide picture Having said all that, I checked Elaine Gould, and found confirmation: pp. 102-13 "Centre the dynamic on the notehead....When vertical space is limited, move a dynamic to the left of the note..." Hi Mark, Thank you for your pointer to the Engraver's Bible. ;-) Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Placement of Articulations (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 02 Feb 06:06PM Hide picture > > Do you mean the 'F' should be in the centre of the note-head? > > The whole symbol should be centered on the note head. If bar lines get in the way, you can erase the background. > > As Adrian said, if there are notes on leger lines below the staff you can move the whole symbol left to save vertical space. > > (Full disclosure: the attachment wasn't done in Sibelius) Wow, thanks Rob; you are really so far ahead of me mate! The 'invisible' bar-line adds a whole new dimension to the graphic. Very neat indeed! Paul. Back to top | All threads