Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Sam at Sibelius - 08 Feb 05:10PM (edited 08 Feb 05:22PM) Hide picture Hi All, A quick note to say Sibelius 8.1.1 is available to all those with a current Upgrade and Support plan or current subscription to Sibelius. To download the update, log into your Avid Master account or run Avid Application Manager and you'll find the update in the Apps tab. Performance improvements: This update fixes a problem where it took a long time to open the File > Export tab, and where it was slow to enter text into file name and path fields. Dragging around the score and zooming using multi-touch gestures is improved and is generally smoother, allowing you to navigate the score more easily. If you find the scrolling is still a little juttery, you can turn off Textures by going to File > Preferences and choosing Textures on the left. Click the Color buttons for each Paper and Desk and click OK. This will mean Sibelius doesn't load a background texture and will make scrolling even smoother. Documentation: We've updated the Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, French tutorials pdfs to follow our standard style guidelines. This completes the improvements and work on 8.1 and we're now on to further improvements in 8.2, which we'll release in due course. Sam -- Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius Contact the Sibelius support team: www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html KB and other resources: www.sibelius.com/support Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 08 Feb 05:45PM Hide picture Good news Sam. I'm still of hope you'll add editorial (dashed and dotted ties) to Sib. 8.2 -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.1.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.5 (update 12-15-2015). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Rob Tuley - 08 Feb 07:02PM Hide picture > I'm still of hope you'll add editorial (dashed and dotted ties) to Sib. 8.2 If you want to sit around waiting to pay money for what's already available free in other software, that's your choice - but not mine. It's been available for at least 9 years already in Lilypond... http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-as-curves -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 7. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 08 Feb 07:40PM Hide picture Don't care to learn Lilypond, as Sibelius, Finale, MuseScore, Notion, and others I have listed below is quite enough. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.1.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.5 (update 12-15-2015). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Peter Roos - 09 Feb 12:29AM Hide picture Cool - thanks Sam. Downloading and installing now. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 09 Feb 01:20AM Hide picture It was pointed out to me that this update fixes what 8.1 broke, according to the following thread. Is that correct, or is this information wrong? Can any users who experienced the problems mentioned in that thread comment on this? "Very pleased to say that we've just released 8.1.1, available to all Sibelius 8.1 users, which addresses the problems detailed in this thread." http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=690343&groupid=3& Thanks for any and all information Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Zawalich - 10 Feb 12:11AM Hide picture Point releases of this sort are almost always bug fixes - they rarely introduce new features, and the bug fixes are often bugs introduced in the recent update. This was true back in the old Sib days as well, so I don't think it is anything to get upset about. The fact that the Avid team addressed the issues quickly speaks well for them, I believe. -- Bob An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2016. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 04:26AM Hide picture Thanks Bob for your reply. There was no upset at all, or anything else in asking my question--just trying, as others are, to gauge purchasing a soon coming July upgrade, or falling off the subscription wagon. And speaking for myself--and YMMV-- Im sorry but Im still not impressed with either the product, or those making it, to be purchasing this upgrade based on features, and belief in Sib, as I did in the past. Sad to say but its more like being strong armed by the consequences of NOT forking over the 89 bucks at that time, and then having to rent or heavens forbid pay AGAIN for Sib--both of which IMHO are poorly thought out and implemented consequences--in short, the actions of a thug. AVID should give us REASON to jump on the subscriptionwagon, and if there was, they wouldnt need these kinds of tactics. So its really no cause for anyone to get defensive about, thanks. I do, however find fault with comparing this Sib 8 and 8.1 with past releases of Sib, and subsequent point releases to address bugs introduced by a recent upgrade/update. Back then those updates or upgrades had meat on their bones, and were well thought out, and had really needed features and fixes--not what we're getting now, and more than a few features. Yes the repair update was fast in coming, but the few introduced features that caused Sib to break, werent so many, and theres still other problems, that are being reported, that I read about here and throughout the web. And I do note in the thread I referenced here there were 6 people with problems in that thread, and there has been no reply from any of them to the update, and how it addressed their problems. So I continue to watch and wait, as July approaches--smart enough to realize that there isn't going to be any great improvements in Sib or AVID--but still stupidly naive enough on some level to hope that there would be. Thanks Bob PS The light of hope in all of this is Steinberg, and what it will be when released. Knowing Daniel et al, and what they did with Sib, I have very high hopes and expectations. -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 Feb 08:44AM Hide picture Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 04:26 Knowing Daniel et al, and what they did with Sib, I have very high hopes and expectations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, everybody just loved the ribbon and all its mind-boggling galleries and back arrow that frustratingly took you back two notes instead of one ;-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 09:15AM Hide picture >Yeah, everybody just loved the ribbon and all its mind-boggling galleries and back arrow that frustratingly took you back two notes instead of one ;-) Well even with all that and more, and I STILL have very high hopes and expectations as to what Daniel and the team will come up with at Steinberg. They made Sib into a world class, very respected, and loved program, before its recent decline into what it is now since their firing. YMMV, of course, and thats fine too. Thanks Bob PS and FWIW I like the ribbon--after all the rants and poisoning here and on the Yahoo forums to get people to dislike it, and fear it even before trying it, once I stopped listening and started using it, I found I liked it. Funny how those rants, though MUCH quieter, and with less verbiage still crop up from time to time.. -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 10 Feb 09:26AM Hide picture Maybe not everyone hates the ribbon! (I switched from Sib 6 to 7.1.3 a while back, and expected to hate it, but don't). But this is a minor point. Many, like Bob M, will be pinning their hopes on whatever Steinberg calls their notation program. Despite misgivings about the ribbon, the old Sibelius team did a fantastic job. It would be nice to think that the "Sibberg" program will hit the ground running, leaving all competitors to eat its dust, but it may be too much to expect that. Speaking entirely for myself, I'm pretty confident I can continue to use 7.1.3 for a long while yet and I'm prepared to wait for Sibberg to get it right, paying zilch to Avid. If I'm wrong and need to update to a future version of Sibelius it could cost me. We'll see. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 Feb 11:01AM Hide picture Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 09:15 Well even with all that and more, and I STILL have very high hopes and expectations as to what Daniel and the team will come up with at Steinberg. They made Sib into a world class, very respected, and loved program, before its recent decline into what it is now since their firing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With all due respect, Bob, Sibelius was already world class when it was controlled by it's creators, Jonathan & Ben Finn. Way ahead of any of the competition, including Finale. It was innovative, easy to learn and easy to use. It's demise began when they sold out to Avid. Having said that, I still wish Daniel and his team all the luck they can get for their new project. Daniel was a great team leader who cared for every user. I miss that. Sibelius is still a world beater. It's a dreadful pity that it is now in the wrong hands. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 12:54PM (edited 10 Feb 01:16PM) Hide picture > With all due respect, Bob, Sibelius was already world class when it was controlled by it's creators, Jonathan & Ben Finn. Way ahead of any of the competition, including Finale. It was innovative, easy to learn and easy to use. It's demise began when they sold out to Avid. As I wasn't a Sib user at that time I'll have to take your word on this, Adrian as I only know Sib with Daniel and team. And again, I do feel what they did with Sib was truly remarkable. I do note I believe there were also less notation programs back in the Finn's day, than there are now. >Sibelius is still a world beater. It's a dreadful pity that it is now in the wrong hands. Here though we disagree, as to the status of Sib, though its obvious its in the wrong hands. A "world beater"?? NOT in my book--again, at one time, yes..but not now. AVID is a joke in the business world, with the NASDAQ delisting, and govt problems, etc and their stock which dropped 6% yesterday down to $6.76, is a HUGE indicator of this--thats a TENTH of its once high of around $67. And you can read ANY Sib forum, and FB group and see how the present day Sib is viewed by its users--mostly the long time ones who know how good it once was, before Daniel et al were fired. Theyre dissatisfied, and complaining, and some have already jumped ship, with a huge portion of other users awaiting Steinbergs program to then drop Sib. And many are still refusing to jump on the subscription bandwagon. This forum here is peppered with this sort of stuff. And I do not see ANYONE according the same amount of satisfaction and respect with Sib 8 as was accorded the previous versions of Sib Ive used-Sib 5, 6, 7, 7.5 All this and more says it so much better than I ever could, but it doesnt speak "world beater" to me. And as I said previously, YMMV--youre free to disagree-- however IIRC youre NOT so pleased with Sib either, refusing to upgrade from Sib 7.1.3--citing if memory serves the non addressing of notation issues and advancement. (and I see youre STILL complaining about the ribbon:) Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 01:02PM (edited 10 Feb 01:06PM) Hide picture > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm pretty confident I can continue to use 7.1.3 for a long while yet and I'm prepared to wait for Sibberg to get it right, paying zilch to Avid. If I'm wrong and need to update to a future version of Sibelius it could cost me. > > We'll see. Hi Chris--I think this sums up what many of us are doing--staying with the Sib versions we have, and using that until Steinberg comes out, and its initial bugs ironed out, and we become proficient with it, so that Sib may be left behind. The problem lies in the fact-as you referred to-if one doesnt jump on the subscription bandwagon in July, it'll cost big bucks to get back on..surely a most despicable strong arm tactic, as if they made Sib a program the users wanted and needed, they wouldnt have to 'force" them to continue with it. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 Feb 02:18PM Hide picture No, I don't need to complain about the ribbon now, Bob, as I soon discovered that most of the short-cuts are still the same, and the same old menus are still available by R-clicking. I normally work with the ribbon minimized so that I don't have to look at all those ridiculous icons on the tool bar. A trumpet for add or remove instrument? A saxophone for change instrument? A treble clef and two flats for transposing score? A green cross for add bars? Who needs a pharmacy to do that? Then there's all those ridiculous galleries that make it 10 times longer to find what you can more easily find in the old menus. No, I ignore the ribbon's contents as much as possible. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Feb 04:17PM Hide picture >No, I don't need to complain about the ribbon now Well Adrian, Im glad you came to grips with it, and found a way around the ribbon. >ridiculous icons on the tool bar. A trumpet for add or remove instrument? A saxophone for change instrument? A treble clef and two flats for transposing score? A green cross for add bars? Who needs a pharmacy to do that? Then there's all those ridiculous galleries that make it 10 times longer to find what you can more easily find in the old menus. No, I ignore the ribbon's contents as much as possible. . > Yes I can definitely see you're a changed man now and dont complain about the ribbon any more..:) Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by James - 10 Feb 05:32PM Hide picture If a ribbon complainer is needed, remember I'm still around, ever ready to kvetch. ;^) -- Mac OS 10.9 Mavericks Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Mike McNamara - 12 Feb 03:33AM Hide picture I kind of like the ribbon. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 08 Oct 12:11AM Hide picture > I kind of like the ribbon. As do I! Best, Paul David Seaman (UK) Cubase 9 / Sibelius 8.6 Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10, 16GB RAM, 1.70gHz, 64-bit, Intel Core i3. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 16 Feb 08:32PM (edited 17 Feb 04:29AM) Hide picture > Thanks Bob for your reply. > > There was no upset at all, or anything else in asking my question--just trying, as others are, to gauge purchasing a soon coming July upgrade, or falling off the subscription wagon. > > And speaking for myself--and YMMV-- Im sorry but Im still not impressed with either the product, or those making it, to be purchasing this upgrade based on features, and belief in Sib, as I did in the past. Sad to say but its more like being strong armed by the consequences of NOT forking over the 89 bucks at that time, and then having to rent or heavens forbid pay AGAIN for Sib--both of which IMHO are poorly thought out and implemented consequences--in short, the actions of a thug. AVID should give us REASON to jump on the subscriptionwagon, and if there was, they wouldnt need these kinds of tactics...... > >Thanks Bob > Bob, it takes money to develop software of this nature. If we want frequent updates and upgrades (that what IS happening so far) we MUST invest in this company. Can you imagine 50 people purchasing Sibelius per year but expect a lifetime of upgrades but AVID don't get any financial income to pay for the expertise who have to create the upgrades. When I soberly thought about this subscription issue, I can now understand that high-end software (even as Microsoft, Norton, Grammarly, AVG, and many more software companies) requires lots of money to develop. I paid the yearly subscription and I received updates so far. I am quite surprised to see that AVID is making good of their promise. High-end software like Sibelius and Microsoft Office eg. is not like downloading a quick Registry cleaner. As for me, I'll pay...as long as they produce. We got spoiled in the past, a paradigm we are going to have to change and get used to...because many other software companies are starting to do the same. I do want the companies to understand that WE are their income and they should treat us with much more respect regarding feature and bug fix requests. WE are investing in them and are keeping them going. As someone previously mentioned AVID is having a hard time on the NASDAQ. It really amazes me how many "loyal" Sibelius users want to jump ship when Steinberg get up and running. PELEASE! What more can be done to create music? That's why developers are starting with this pen input idea. I don't see Daniel is going to come up with a notation program from heaven. What I do see is this: Sibelius has a DAW (Pro Tools), Notion has a DAW (Studio One), Daniel Notator has a DAW(Cubase) Finale...Nothing yet. Then there is StaffPad which will have it's own DAW in time. So one's notator choice, in the future, will definitely include this element...notator/DAW choice. Watch!...Finale will follow as well...but NOT yet. By not going subscription will stay as it is in order to grab ticked-off Sibelius users, and THEN they will go subscription, unless they have a billionaire somewhere that keeps financing them...which brings me to another thing that irritates the HELL out of me...this Daniel/AVID thing. We all love Daniel, but guys get over it. He's fine and living well and I do hope for the best that he can produce. But using such a childish statement "we'll just have to see what Daniel comes up with...." is so unprofessional. Sibelius is truly a masterful piece of software that needs more work on it, but what on earth can Daniel come up with that will satisfy our needs. Now the guys are trying to manipulate AVID with this (actually very weak and trivial) threat. Software is a TOOL, not POLITICS. Look what is available and purchase/subscribe to it. I DO have Finale (which I only use to import a client's piece and then export it as a MusicXML and pull it into Sibelius), and Sibelius/Pro Tools, MuseScore, StaffPad. This is all I need. My muso's in the Navy Band have no problem reading my notes. We DO have a minor issue though and that is Sibelius/Pro Tool on MAC or PC! THAT is also one of the main reasons I don't like Finale. In all the years they exist, it still looks the same. Just like IOS and Mac OS. It makes one wonder if after installing Finale, and then looking at the same screen, if they actually did anything new, justifying the expense. Come on ladies and gents, let stop these politics and create heavenly music with the software of your choice. MY choice is Sibelius/Pro Tools. If Steinberg comes out with an amazing piece of software, worthy of being replacing Sibelius/Pro Tools, AND if I'm willing to re-learn this software, then I'll go for Steinberg. As for ME, I always want the BEST software/Tool. Now, let's get back to creating music...shall we? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 16 Feb 09:18PM Hide picture Hans - I've already pointed this out in some of my posts, so I hope you won't mind me pointing it out again! We sourced nearly all the fixes and improvements in Sib 8.1 from our users. We'll continue to do the same, and I hope you'll notice an improvement in the feedback loop of your reporting an issue and us acting on it. If you've got any specific needs or suggestions then feel free to post them here, or on IdeaScale, or send them to me directly. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 16 Feb 10:45PM Hide picture Hi Hans-- What you quoted above of mine above still quite completely and accurately sums up my feelings on this, and as I pointed out there-"YMMV" meaning you or anyone else might choose to disagree, and thats fine. But to me, your post here seems to be saying two different things. >Bob, it takes money to develop software of this nature. If we want frequent updates and upgrades (that what IS happening so far) we MUST invest in this company. > I must be missing something as I dont see frequent upgrades and updates happening, and the features offered, and bug fixes of what has been put out simply dont impress me to want to jump on the subscription bandwagon.. Again, YMMV. I will, as will others that I read on the forum, probably be 'strong armed' into subscribing again--NOT because Im impressed with what AVID is doing, but because I dont want somewhere down the line to have to rent or heaven forbid pay out the ENTIRE cost of Sib. And also because Steinberg hasnt been released yet. >Can you imagine 50 people purchasing Sibelius per year but expect a lifetime of upgrades but AVID don't get any financial income to pay for the expertise who have to create the upgrades. > So by this you expect ALL users to fork over their money for a product thats not longer, in their estimation worth it, to keep Avid and Sib going? Sorry, NOT for me. And what you refer to as "the expertise ..to create the updates" I dont really see either, sorry to say. >I am quite surprised to see that AVID is making good of their promise. Again, Hans sorry I just dont see this. >As for me, I'll pay...as long as they produce. ... Ah-HA! This seems to kind of go against what youve been saying here--that we "MUST" pay to keep AVID and Sib going, but now what you say here I think is wise--they produce, one pays. They dont--and well, then you see the situation as it s now for many users, myself included. >I do want the companies to understand that WE are their income and they should treat us with much more respect regarding feature and bug fix requests. WE are investing in them and are keeping them going. > ABSOLUTELY! But again, unless I misread your opening thoughts, this seems different than what you started out by saying. This is where many of us are, and holding back subscribing til the last possible moment, if we subscribe at all, with many again awaiting the release of Steinberg, or even seeking out other Sib replacements already. Or even hoping for a miracle that a Sb update shows them something to MAKE them want to subscribe.If I were AVID I would have gotten this message loud and clear already. So again, what you quoted of mine above still really speaks for me, Hans. I have great misgivings--and am hugely disappointed-in both AVID, and what theyve done and are doing to Sib, and if I were proficient enough in another program so that I could do what I need to as I can in Sib, I would have been gone LONG ago..but thats just me. And FWIW-even if/when Im able to stop with Sib, it wlll be with many hard feelings. There are many people here who have helped on this forum providing their time and expertise FREE of cost to AVID, to help others with a program they believed in. And they themselves have used Sib for many years, and REALLY dont want to have to start all over and learn another program-like Steinberg-especially at an older age. Thanks Bob PS Many thanks to those who have contacted me off forum with your very kind words and thoughts..as always it is very much appreciated. -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 05:40AM (edited 17 Feb 06:16AM) Hide picture Hi Joe...frankly I'm not sure WHAT you are referring to. I have not complained about something specific in my previous post...not that I can recall. And, I do make use of IdeaScale. Bob, I hear you. But still, after all your misgivings, Sibelius is still the boy on the block. And yes, of course, we all will have to invest to create a better Sibelius. (Think of NASA, if they still have to run on their first budget infusion, where would they be today?) In MY mind Finale is useless...at least NOT better than Sibelius. There ARE, however, a few guys we must keep our eyes on. While Daniel is creating his software the guys that create StaffPad are extremely smart and they are creating StaffPad in the same spirit as the Finn boys. Bob, in all honesty, I don't see many people on this forum and FaceBook that are so unhappy as you make out to be. Goodness, I created a poll a few months back and, considering the number of Sibelius users, only a handful of users contributed. And that poll was about a sore subject...the Ribbon! My friend, If Sibelius doesn't do it for you, which one does? You are placing your hopes on Daniel who's software will put notes on paper exactly as Sibelius, Finale, StaffPad et al. There seems to be new notation software entering our earth more and more, so I think we have to make a paradigm shift. Choose your company, whether it is MakeMusic, AVID etc., and stick with it and also invest in it. All these companies will require financial input to survive and improve. Think about it, notation software is NOT as needed by humans on earth as, say, MS Office, Norton AV, IOS, Mac OS, etc. And even MicroSoft is subscription...why...I don't know. But nobody seems to complain about MS subscription. INVEST! We have to push our companies to make us co-"owners" or shareholders. Otherwise, YOU will be correct. We will dump funds into a company but get not much in return. AVID must give us shares and they can get stockbrokers to grow AVID into a monster. But, this is an area I'm NOT knowledgeable about. I don't know...what do you boys and girls think? Oh yes, Happy new year to all you guys...my musical brothers and sisters. May God prosper you all in every area of your lives and inspire you to create music that touches one's very soul! -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly for Steinberg. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 10:32AM Hide picture Hi Hans-- Speaking only for myself I cant,and wont in good faith support AVID/Sibelius without getting a solid,viable product,and support(and hopefully company too,) now, and with all visible signs it will remain that way in the future, in return for my $$$. Apparently you feel its that way now, and you're entitled to your opinion, and to put your money on them. My confidence and faith that Sib will be around a long time and become the kind of program it once was is sadly nonexistant..and AVID wont change for anything. If I do re up in June/July it will ONLY be because of the despicable threat/consequences of having to rebuy Sib or pay monthly in the future, if I dont, and want to return. This kind of thing is what makes AVID so despicable, IMHO. >INVEST! We have to push our companies to make us co-"owners" or shareholders. Otherwise, YOU will be correct. We will dump funds into a company but get not much in return. AVID must give us shares and they can get stockbrokers to grow AVID into a monster. > Good luck with that Hans!:) I will however invest in Steinberg when they start whether I end up really using it full time or not, as I BELIEVE in them. The company, the product, and the people making, guiding and supporting the product. (and from what I read here, Reaper also sounds like this same kind of program, and something to get behind and support) There are MANY Finale users who would disagree with your "its useless" rating, and it not being better than Sib. However again ALL are entitled to their opinion. And again on this forum, and throughout the web I still see people expressing their displeasure with AVID, and/or critical of "the new Sib". Also in emails to me off forum. Its less than it was as I think people simply got tired of the futility of fighting for Sib and dont care anymore and have already given up on it, and are just making the best of things or threading time here, until Steinberg comes out. Most of these 'vocal' users are basically the old timers, in my opinion, the backbone of Sib for years who also make up an awful lot--if not most- of the technical expertise here on the forum, now and in the past. Just the fact that users are STILL not on the subscription bandwagon and are refusing to be on it, or waiting til the absolute very last minute to decide whether to pay the upgrade, and saying so publicly here speaks volumes to me, in this matter. >My friend, I Sibelius doesn't do it for you, which one does? You are placing your hopes on Daniel who's software will put notes on paper exactly as Sibelius, Finale, StaffPad et al.> The OLD Sibelius works for me, Hans both in the way things were done, and the product that we used...basically up to and including Sib 7.5, and I still very much like Sib 6. Since this new regime took over, to me the new Sib seems like an embarrassingly empty shell of what it was. Again feel free to disagree Hans. Theres nothing more I can or really need to add, Hans. Thanks for the conversation and good luck with what youre trying to do. But asking people to invest first in AVID with its HUGELY checkered past, with all the delisting govt stuff, etc along with the very few, and to me, questionable advances and improvements made to Sib with this new team is going to be a very hard sell. Be well, and take care, Hans. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 17 Feb 11:05AM (edited 17 Feb 11:36AM) Hide picture My point, for what it's worth, is that the time has passed for emotion. Quite rightly, people were enraged by the sacking of the London development team and voiced their resentment loudly; I was one of them. It was a defining moment in many people's attitude to Avid. Since then, the subscription model has piled up further resentment for many of us; maybe we wouldn't feel so sore had it arrived in isolation. As it was, it seems to add a further insult. However, it seems to me that getting worked up at this point is a waste of energy. Avid possibly has got the message, but whether it will make any difference is another matter. With the lack of real development of the program recently, the promise from Avid that, with the new payment plan, development would proceed apace, seemed to be pretty unconvincing. "You've failed us in the past - why should we finance your huge management salaries in the blind hope that some really good development of Sibelius ensues?" seems to be Bob's position - except that he's a bit more bitter than that. Hans thinks otherwise. The American stock market doesn't have a lot of faith in Avid as a viable business, it should be added. Here's the worst case: Avid takes our money, produces little if anything worthwhile and eventually folds as a business, or Sibelius as a program just staggers on largely unchanged. The best: Sibelius advances with leaps and bounds and becomes the wonderful thing our silver-lined memories think it once was - and it was pretty good, actually. Still is. More likely: something in between. Some will think their money is well spent, some not. But the whole of this landscape alters if the Steinberg offering is good, really good, just like that wonderful thing we all remember... I'm planning on paying nothing further for Sibelius. (Something amazing would have to happen to make me reconsider.) 7.1.3 does what I need and I'm very unlikely to be in a situation where I need to send anyone, or need to read, a file in a newer version - unless I get published by major house. (But that's a long way off). -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 12:08PM Hide picture Chris, I'm totally in agreement with you. There is nothing we can do if AVID folds as a company. I personally think that they can make it work IF THE COMPANY and the USER BASE start working together and forget the past. Sibelius is still the big boy on the block and it CAN still be improved regarding fixing bugs and features. They can certainly create a tablet version for iPad and Surface Pro like StaffPad. Some people seem to like NOTATEME but with me, testing that software, it does not satisfy regarding recognition of the pen's input. Windows 10 can go Desktop mode and Tablet Mode. Sibelius should be able to do the same. I'm just saying that there is scope for new features. But, it will require that we forget the past and look forward. AVID can stay the big boy if they have enough finances for development. There seems to people blaming the CEO's of corruption the same as the South African government. If AVID is to survive, they will need to order themselves from the top to bottom. The question is: "Are we willing to trust AVID to produce as promised?" So, we can either work together or GO AWAY. There is no grey area here, and there seem to be many users in the grey area..." let's see what happens..." AVID needs money, point. Every Avid user MUST decide and do introspection and act accordingly. Chris, you are so correct when you say that there's lots of EMOTION involved here. But, we are all adult enough to realise the current position of issues regarding AVID. Are we going to cry FOREVER because of what happened to Daniel, the Ribbon, the Payment Plan and previous politics...or are we going to accept that Daniel is not sitting under a bridge begging, the Ribbon works (many users are just proud to admit it), bugs can be fixed, more features can be added and the Payment Plan...??? Well, let's face it Avid needs money to develop just like other companies that also makes use of subscription plans. I just now paid $39 for a year's subscription of PowerDVD. Nobody seems to complain that MicroSoft, PowerDVD and others also use the subscription model. So...THIS is where we stand (as the User Base): "Are we going to forget the past and TRUST that AVID wants to grow and thereby "invest" in AVID OR stop dead in your tracks and ride on the cooperation of other users who DO actually contribute like we all do for Office etc." Now...regarding Steinberg. IF it does what Sibelius does then I will not invest in that company, but IF it's something much more amazing, then I'll add it to my arsenal. If have Sibelius, StaffPad, Notion, Encore and Finale...you know, Finale's development is almost at a standstill. We judge Sibelius, but Finale is far worse. They will also need to revise their financial plans. What's more, to say? PS. Guys, I'm not trying to be rude or against anybody's viewpoint. This is just MY humble opinion. I really like Sibelius and don't want to see it fold. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Feb 12:31PM Hide picture As always, whether it's a car, a computer, a program or a wife, we can only choose what is on offer NOW. In June, Avid propose to offer us an insurance policy against our present versions of Sibelius becoming obsolete as our computers and operating systems evolve. There is also the possibility of dividends, consisting of improvements to the program. It is vanishingly unlikely that any protest will change this situation. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 12:37PM Hide picture > As always, whether it's a car, a computer, a program or a wife, we can only choose what is on offer NOW. > > In June, Avid propose to offer us an insurance policy against our present versions of Sibelius becoming obsolete as our computers and operating systems evolve. There is also the possibility of dividends, consisting of improvements to the program. > > It is vanishingly unlikely that any protest will change this situation. > Sounds like good news, Laurence! Just what we need! :-) Hope all is still well with you. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Feb 01:24PM Hide picture > > As always, whether it's a car, a computer, a program or a wife, we can only choose what is on offer NOW. > > > > In June, Avid propose to offer us an insurance policy against our present versions of Sibelius becoming obsolete as our computers and operating systems evolve. There is also the possibility of dividends, consisting of improvements to the program. > > > > It is vanishingly unlikely that any protest will change this situation. > > > > Sounds like good news, Laurence! > Just what we need! :-) > > Hope all is still well with you. Considering I became an Old Age Pensioner three days ago, I'm functioning remarkably well, thank you! This whole Avid/Sibelius thing is a very emotional subject for some. More importantly, we still get questions here and elsewhere from people who have failed to grasp how the new pricing will work. Present owners of Sibelius who think they have to start paying monthly. I HOPE Avid's system would refuse a monthly rental signup from an existing owner, but I fear it might not. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 17 Feb 01:44PM Hide picture > I HOPE Avid's system would refuse a monthly rental signup from an existing owner, but I fear it might not. It doesn't because we can't always be sure whether a customer owns a previous copy or not, so we have to rely on the user. That's because Sib 7.1 - 7.5 relied on voluntary user registration, so there are many Sibelius activations that are effectively anonymous. We are however able to replace a users license and process the necessary refund as and when this situation occurs. Anyone finding themselves in this sort of situation should contact support who can fix it up. Joe -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 12:31PM (edited 17 Feb 12:35PM) Hide picture Hi Bob, You stated "...I will, however, invest in Steinberg when they start whether I end up really using it full time or not, as I BELIEVE in them..." This statement seems to me that you came to really dislike of even "hate" Avid which is the way I feel about Finale. Steinberg has not produced anything for us yet, and you will invest in THAT? Will you "invest" in a ghost? Even if you BELIEVE in them there's no guarantee that it will be better than Sibelius. Bob, believe ME, I DON'T mean this rudely...but if you (and other users) lost faith in Avid you are doing great damage to those that still believes in Avid AND potential new customers. How can Avid (or any other company) grow if it's been battered by perhaps a great minority of users? Of ALL the current users, we DON't know how many users feel the way you do. It could even be 5%! We need to be positive or do what I did with MakeMusic...leave. I don't contribute to their forum (even though I still HAVE to use Finale) exactly for this reason...I don't want to be a partaker of damaging MakeMusic just because I lost faith in them. There ARE those who want to keep the legacy of the Finn boys going. If Steinberg is fantastic, I will ADD it to my toys, not ditch Sibelius. You also stated "...>INVEST! We have to push our companies to make us co-"owners" or shareholders. Otherwise, YOU will be correct. We will dump funds into a company but get not much in return. AVID must give us shares and they can get stockbrokers to grow AVID into a monster. > Good luck with that Hans!:)..." Yeah! I know. What will be our chance of THAT happening. It will be great though. :-) Just MY opinion, Bob. Forgive me IF I might have insulted you in any way...it's not meant. :-) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Neil Sands - 17 Feb 01:49PM Hide picture Be careful about names. Steinberg haven't produced anything yet (apart from SMuFL, by the way) but the people working on that product are the people who produced Sibelius, under the Avid name. The success of Sibelius is not to the credit of the current Avid folk, but to the current Steinberg folk. So trusting Steinberg on their track record is not so ghostly as it might seem. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 02:14PM Hide picture >You stated "...I will, however, invest in Steinberg when they start whether I end up really using it full time or not, as I BELIEVE in them..." This statement seems to me that you came to really dislike of even "hate" Avid which is the way I feel about Finale. > I dont see HOW you got what you think I said from what I actually said there. You DONT seem to be reading the replies, Hans just trying to say what you WANT them to say, not what they actually do. I especially suggest re reading Chris Crawleys EXCELLENT response which you say "Chris, I'm totally in agreement with you" Here's Chris' main points word for word, and if Im in error I hope Chris will correct me --My point, for what it's worth, is that the time has passed for emotion. --With the lack of real development of the program recently, the promise from Avid that, with the new payment plan, development would proceed apace, seemed to be pretty unconvincing. --The American stock market doesn't have a lot of faith in Avid as a viable business, it should be added. --More likely: something in between. Some will think their money is well spent, some not. --But the whole of this landscape alters if the Steinberg offering is good, really good, just like that wonderful thing we all remember... --I'm planning on paying nothing further for Sibelius. (Something amazing would have to happen to make me reconsider.) .>Steinberg has not produced anything for us yet, and you will invest in THAT? Will you "invest" in a ghost? Even if you BELIEVE in them there's no guarantee that it will be better than Sibelius. > "Will I invest in a ghost"? Please Hans--youre getting a bit carried away with what youre proposing. And I dont know what wasnt clear about what I wrote--I will support Steinberg when it comes out. Period, In WHATEVER shape it comes out, as they deserve a chance to get it right, and Im rooting for them. And if Im not mistaken, that "ghost" has already been displayed to the public. Even if it wasnt, Im still backing them, and also continuing to use Sib for however long as I please. I paid for it, own it, and have done much in the past providing free support here, and recommending it to others, which I cant see myself EVER doing again. And if someone doesnt want to support the subscription plan, its their right, and if that sinks AVID as youre trying to say, well then Id say AVID wasnt really afloat to begin with. Please DONT blame me or ANYONE else for AVIDS woes--its simply ALL their doing. >Bob, believe ME, I DON'T mean this rudely...but if you (and other users) lost faith in Avid you are doing great damage to those that still believes in Avid AND potential new customers. > OMG Hans. DONT try and make it into that. If you or anyone want to invest, then as I said go for it. Youre doing ALL of us an injustice by trying to inject false meanings to support your stance into what was actually said. >How can Avid (or any other company) grow if it's been battered by perhaps a great minority of users? Of ALL the current users, we DON't know how many users feel the way you do. It could even be 5%! > And it might be more,or even less, or even a majority..who knows? I speak for myself----but however much it is, we all have a right to feel as we do, regardless of the guilt trip youre trying to put us on here. AVID did it ALL to itself, and is doing it to Sib. Period. and yet you want me/us to "save them". Unreal. >We need to be positive or do what I did with MakeMusic...leave. I don't contribute to their forum (even though I still HAVE to use Finale) exactly for this reason...I don't want to be a partaker of damaging MakeMusic just because I lost faith in them. > No one has to do ANYTHING just because you say so Hans. You sure sound like an AVID employee :) And the people are doing it..just like Chris said:"I'm planning on paying nothing further for Sibelius." Yet you say youre in COMPLETE agreement with him. >There ARE those who want to keep the legacy of the Finn boys going. If Steinberg is fantastic, I will ADD it to my toys, not ditch Sibelius. > And THAT again is your right and choice Hans. >>You also stated "...>INVEST! We have to push our companies to make us co-"owners" or shareholders. Otherwise, YOU will be correct. We will dump funds into a company but get not much in return. AVID must give us shares and they can get stockbrokers to grow AVID into a monster. > Good luck with that Hans!:)..." Yeah! I know. What will be our chance of THAT happening. It will be great though. :-) I dont believe it will ever happen. >Just MY opinion, Bob. Forgive me IF I might have insulted you in any way...it's not meant. :-) Sure it is Hans..in your fumbling way you say I/and any other user not subscribing are damaging the rest who are, and should leave. I take that as an insult. And that basically we should help AVID, although all their misery they did to themselves. This also is an affront to me. Hans Ive honestly had enough of this thread--do as you want, but please dont take what I say, and try and use it wrongly. And Id again advise re reading Chris reply. Unless its ME who's misreading it, he and I said just about the same thing....... (though he said I was a little more bitter:) Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 02:15PM Hide picture >Be careful about names. Steinberg haven't produced anything yet (apart from SMuFL, by the way) but the people working on that product are the people who produced Sibelius, under the Avid name. The success of Sibelius is not to the credit of the current Avid folk, but to the current Steinberg folk. So trusting Steinberg on their track record is not so ghostly as it might seem. > +1 Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 02:16PM Hide picture >My point, for what it's worth, is that the time has passed for emotion. Quite rightly, people were enraged by the sacking of the London development team and voiced their resentment loudly; I was one of them. It was a defining moment in many people's attitude to Avid. Since then, the subscription model has piled up further resentment for many of us; maybe we wouldn't feel so sore had it arrived in isolation. As it was, it seems to add a further insult. However, it seems to me that getting worked up at this point is a waste of energy. Avid possibly has got the message, but whether it will make any difference is another matter. With the lack of real development of the program recently, the promise from Avid that, with the new payment plan, development would proceed apace, seemed to be pretty unconvincing. "You've failed us in the past - why should we finance your huge management salaries in the blind hope that some really good development of Sibelius ensues?" seems to be Bob's position - except that he's a bit more bitter than that. Hans thinks otherwise. The American stock market doesn't have a lot of faith in Avid as a viable business, it should be added. Here's the worst case: Avid takes our money, produces little if anything worthwhile and eventually folds as a business, or Sibelius as a program just staggers on largely unchanged. The best: Sibelius advances with leaps and bounds and becomes the wonderful thing our silver-lined memories think it once was - and it was pretty good, actually. Still is. More likely: something in between. Some will think their money is well spent, some not. But the whole of this landscape alters if the Steinberg offering is good, really good, just like that wonderful thing we all remember... I'm planning on paying nothing further for Sibelius. (Something amazing would have to happen to make me reconsider.) 7.1.3 does what I need and I'm very unlikely to be in a situation where I need to send anyone, or need to read, a file in a newer version - unless I get published by major house. (But that's a long way off). > +1..very well said Chris. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 02:33PM Hide picture >As always, whether it's a car, a computer, a program or a wife, we can only choose what is on offer NOW. > That doesnt work here as you omit the very important choice to simply WAIT. This is very applicable here as we really dont have to do ANYTHING until June/July. >In June, Avid propose to offer us an insurance policy against our present versions of Sibelius becoming obsolete as our computers and operating systems evolve. There is also the possibility of dividends, consisting of improvements to the program. It is vanishingly unlikely that any protest will change this situation. > Its quite evident AVID isnt listening, hasnt and will not listen--I agree that any protest probably wont do any good. However each and every one of us has the right to buy into the subscription plan, or not, and say how we feel. The idea that we should just throw our money at AVID, when we're dissatisfied with them as a company, and how Sib is being handled, as put forth in the thread by another user is simply unbelievable to me. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 06:40PM (edited 17 Feb 06:41PM) Hide picture Bob, my friend, I know what you are saying and agree with you. I felt that way about MakeMusic. All I'm saying is that I really believe if AVID change their attitude AND LISTEN and our attitude IN FORGETTING AND FORGIVING then maybe Sibelius can be saved. You know Windows were getting down the drain, but MicroSoft listened and the User Base cooperated and Windows IS SAVED! OK, I know Windows 10 is free for a year but MicroSoft can afford it. AVID can learn from MicroSoft and who knows, there might still be hope for Sibelius...not that I ever thought Sibelius is going down the drain, though :) Vasbyt, my broer! -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 17 Feb 06:40PM Hide picture > ... There is nothing we can do if AVID folds as a company. I personally think that they can make it work IF THE COMPANY and the USER BASE start working together and forget the past. > Avid folding would probably be the brightest future for Sibelius users. Steinberg could then buy the rights to Sibelius. I doubt that Steinberg would continue to support Sibelius, but the developers would then own (again) all the intellectual property and patents they put into it. And they could legally allow their new product to read the Sibelius file format. The new Steinberg product would not be Sibelius, but there could then be a very clear, smooth migration path from Sibelius to the Steinberg product. Unfortunately, we can't count on this happening. Avid may continue to limp along. And so we will probably have to help it limp along by buying the Sibelius insurance policy. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 06:51PM Hide picture > > ... There is nothing we can do if AVID folds as a company. I personally think that they can make it work IF THE COMPANY and the USER BASE start working together and forget the past. > > > Avid folding would probably be the brightest future for Sibelius users. Steinberg could then buy the rights to Sibelius. I doubt that Steinberg would continue to support Sibelius, but the developers would then own (again) all the intellectual property and patents they put into it. And they could legally allow their new product to read the Sibelius file format. > > The new Steinberg product would not be Sibelius, but there could then be a very clear, smooth migration path from Sibelius to the Steinberg product. > > Unfortunately, we can't count on this happening. Avid may continue to limp along. And so we will probably have to help it limp along by buying the Sibelius insurance policy. > -- > Patrick O'Keefe > > Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff > Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Patric, you are saying this out of EMOSTioN because Daniel is there. If Daniel were still at Avid you would think otherwise. Sibelius might be sold over to Steinberg ONLY IF AVID is folding/bankrupt. In THAT situation, I can see it happen, but Sibelius belongs to AVID and I detect a helluva lot of loyalty here. We MUST stay positive. Those who LOVE Daniel can go to him. AVID will make it, you wait and see. You guy must admit that the surface pro is a pretty decent step forward, some bugs have been fixed and I DID get some updates...maybe 4 if I recall correctly. So...Sibelius is still the BEST out there...next will be Steinberg, but we will first have to wait and see. I think Daniel and those other boys are enjoying threads like these :) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Mike Lyons - 17 Feb 09:20PM Hide picture I don't think Daniel feels anything akin to schadenfreude in regard to AVID any more. He has moved on. We who are left behind, however, are a different matter. I spoke loudly and clearly many years ago when the Finn brothers sold Sib to a new owner that it would all go tits up and I have seen no evicedence to the contrary. For me, the firing of the Finsbury Park team was a rubicon moment and I will be - especially given current performance of the development team - most unlikely to update to 8. There just isn't anything in it to tempt me. Like many others, I am awaiting events from Steinberg and the original Sib team. TBH, Sam & Joe, you will have to pull off something pretty startling well in advance of the June deadline in order to keep me as a Sib user. -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 10 Pro, 8GB,7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 09:46PM Hide picture Yeah!! I agree. Steinberg should show us "something" by June at least. I wonder.... -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 10:04PM Hide picture Mike Lyons wrote: >I don't think Daniel feels anything akin to schadenfreude in regard to AVID any more. He has moved on. We who are left behind, however, are a different matter. I spoke loudly and clearly many years ago when the Finn brothers sold Sib to a new owner that it would all go tits up and I have seen no evicedence to the contrary. For me, the firing of the Finsbury Park team was a rubicon moment and I will be - especially given current performance of the development team - most unlikely to update to 8. There just isn't anything in it to tempt me. Like many others, I am awaiting events from Steinberg and the original Sib team. TBH, Sam & Joe, you will have to pull off something pretty startling well in advance of the June deadline in order to keep me as a Sib user. > Then Hans Nel replied: >Yeah!! I agree. Steinberg should show us "something" by June at least. I wonder.... > Hans youve been doing this ALL thru this thread-- WHAT do you agree with? and WHERE do you see what youve written in reply to Mikes post, in Mikes post itself? Youre AGAIN ignoring the main thought he said: "For me, the firing of the Finsbury Park team was a rubicon moment and I will be - especially given current performance of the development team - most unlikely to update to 8. There just isn't anything in it to tempt me. Like many others, I am awaiting events from Steinberg and the original Sib team. TBH, Sam & Joe, you will have to pull off something pretty startling well in advance of the June deadline in order to keep me as a Sib user." So since you agree with that as you say, you'll probably be leaving Sib too? C'mon Hans--stop trying to say people are posting the stuff you WANT them to say, but arent saying, and then you agree with something they HAVENT said at all. Its simply NOT working. Thanks Bob PS Again, nice post Mike-+1 -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 10:44PM (edited 17 Feb 10:48PM) Hide picture Pat O'Keefe wrote: >Avid folding would probably be the brightest future for Sibelius users. Steinberg could then buy the rights to Sibelius. I doubt that Steinberg would continue to support Sibelius, but the developers would then own (again) all the intellectual property and patents they put into it. And they could legally allow their new product to read the Sibelius file format. The new Steinberg product would not be Sibelius, but there could then be a very clear, smooth migration path from Sibelius to the Steinberg product. Unfortunately, we can't count on this happening. Avid may continue to limp along. And so we will probably have to help it limp along by buying the Sibelius insurance policy. > Great post Pat!--and you touch upon two very important points in all of this, that would be moot if AVID sold Sib: 1) the idea (mentioned in the past) that AVID will use this "theft of intellectual property" ploy to stop Steinberg from even getting out of the gate 2) the need for the very best way possible to migrate Sib scores to Steinberg. Im sure Daniel and team are acutely aware of these and will address both quite handily. It's especially good news that Daniel is co-chair (along with Michael Good) of the W3C Music Notation Community Group https://www.w3.org/community/music-notation/ "The initial task of the Community Group is to maintain and update the MusicXML and SMuFL (Standard Music Font Layout) specifications. The goals are to evolve the specifications to handle new use cases and technologies, including greater use of music notation on the web, while maximizing the existing investment in implementations of the existing MusicXML 3.0 and SMuFL specifications." Im betting we'll see changes in XML that will make the import of SIb files into Steinberg much more seamless, though I again couldnt agree more if AVID was out of the picture, and Sibelius picked up by Steinberg, it would make all of this MUCH easier. Thanks Bob ===================================================================== Hans replied: >Patric, you are saying this out of EMOSTioN because Daniel is there. If Daniel were still at Avid you would think otherwise. Hans--Im amazed at what you say. IF Daniel was here, there'd be NO need for ANY of this conversation. You do realize that dont you? And Im sure you ALSO realize, it now takes TWO people to do Daniel's job, and THREE development teams to do what that one man and one team did--with the MAJOR exception that Daniel and team made Sib a great program. What AVID has done to it is in such a long time period is another story. You also do realize that IF AVID was doing such a bang up good job as you say, there wouldnt be such dissatisfaction expressed about them here, and throughout the web--and everyone would have just jumped happily on the subscription wagon. >Sibelius might be sold over to Steinberg ONLY IF AVID is folding/bankrupt. In THAT situation, I can see it happen, but Sibelius belongs to AVID and I detect a helluva lot of loyalty here. Really? Judging from EVERY response to your posts here, I dont see ANY loyalty at all, to AVID, or appreciation of what they've done to Sib.It simply isnt there for many ,Hans despite you trying to force people to believe it is >We MUST stay positive. Those who LOVE Daniel can go to him. AVID will make it, you wait and see. Hans, your touting the same message again--and Id SWEAR your an AVID employee!:): That anyone who is unhappy or critical of AVID or Sib, or wants to explore Steinberg should leave. Be advised IF Steinberg was up and running people would have left ALREADY, and hearing your message you just might be convincing more to leave. Way to go, Hans:) You also keep saying that we should support AVID financially whether we like what theyre doing or not, and give them a chance with Sib--WHAT, pray tell, do you think theyve had since they fired Daniel and all?? And since we're even having this conversation is proof theyve blown all those chances theyve had all that time, by their actions, and with their handling of Sib. >You guy must admit that the surface pro is a pretty decent step forward, some bugs have been fixed and I DID get some updates...maybe 4 if I recall correctly. Thanks Hans--and no, no one must admit anything--you couldnt have picked what in my opinion--and Ive read it elsewhere on the forum--is a better example as to what what AVID is doing with Sib and giving users, and is considered useless by a big percentage of them. And I wont even go into theh question of what exactly these now 3 dev teams are in truth technically capable of doing, and the IMMENSE effect that has on what is picked to offer in updates/upgrades. All in all hwich is why, we're having this conversation today, Hans--AVID had all the tlme and chances to do right by Sib, and they havent, in many people's eyes. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Jeff Hale - 17 Feb 11:27PM Hide picture Let's not forget that Avid was bought by professional venture capitalists, who made a business decision that what they could squeeze out of the company was more than the purchase price. They then set out to maximize revenue and minimize costs. There is, in their calculation, just enough development going on to get enough users to either pay subscription fees or buy the various products outright to enable them to collect their multi-million dollar "bonuses". In essence, they are milking the company. If they calculated that selling Sibelius, Media Composer, or any other product would bring in more money overall, they would do it. If they thought that putting all revenues back into development would bring more money, they would do that. Unfortunately, they've made the most cynical decision possible -- squeeze everything they can and make their money now. There are still some well-intentioned employees who are trying to fight the good fight, but so far they have done no more than hold the line, if that. There is no good reason to expect that to change. My own feeling is that Bob is more correct than Hans. The only way Avid Management would change its behavior would be for their bottom line to shrink drastically. Buying into the subscription system reinforces their behavior (senior management bonuses are based, in part, on the number of subscriptions sold, according to public information, so this funds obscene compensation rather than further development). Unfortunately, the insurance analogy is probably correct, especially if you use a Mac, which has a long history of making changes in its operating system that require equivalent changes in other software. Windows has, at least, a better track record of backwards compatibility. So if you don't subscribe, you run a very real risk of having to keep patching an old computer for a long time. But maybe, just maybe, if enough people don't subscribe, Avid management will make a business decision to cut Sibelius loose and someone -- I would not bet on Steinberg, which is three years into its own development now -- who would make a good faith effort to develop the software will pick it up. -- windows 10 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 11:08PM (edited 17 Feb 11:10PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 17 Feb 11:30PM Hide picture mmmmmmmm!! Let me see I need to go simpler. 1) AVID fire Daniel and friends. Everyone was ticked off, 2) AVID is under huge pressure a) Anger about Daniel b) The Ribbon c) The payment Model d)IdeaScale pressure. e)Pressure from this forum and FaceBook. 3) There are plenty of reasons for AVID to fold. At some point, I thought that is what was going to happen. 4) Sibelius 7.3.1 was released with the Timeline at the bottom. Some bug fixes.New programme joined AVED from the Ukraine or some place. 5)Sibelius 7.5 More timeline improvements but AVID is actually already planning some other move ahead...Sibelius 8 and the Subscription model. 6) Lots of negativity and moaning from the user base.AVID KNOWS the payment scheme will tick people off, but they have no choice...they need moola.They showed some ingenuity by introducing the code for Surface Pro. and some other BS features. But they are hoping for US to help to raise AVID on its legs again...Just like Windows 10 insiders (like myself) cooperated. 7) There ARE some upgrades and bug fixes and a lot of work making the Application Manager work properly. I got maybe 5 AppManager updates. 8)I can see that slowly things are getting better.NOT much yet, but AVID is sorting Sibelius out in all areas. Programming of the code, deciphering what Daniel and boys did, planning, testing, millions of meetings. 9) As for me, the firing of the Finsbury Park team is not a rubicon moment. I can come and go as it pleases me. People lose jobs all over the world. 1000 miners just lost their jobs here in South Africa, and most likely most of the will beg under a bridge. People get fired. I was angry as well but I'm OVER it. I am NOT beyond the point of no return. I want to use Sibelius grow even better. So, what is it they teach us here at business school, customers come and go. It is rare that they will remain forever. So even if I am at the rubicon, I can still cross it, but life has to be better on the other side. 10) So...how many users are having a rubicon moment? Would be nice to know. But such a person has no more value to a company if they are just riding the Avid wave until Steinberg realise, your heart is not here anymore. If the rubicon is your hang up, your heart is still not at Avid, and you'll keek posting negative thinks on the forum put potential customers from joining. Just for you to know, I use Notion because it has the best sound engine. It plays my EWQLSO perfectly. I XML to Sibelius and Pro Tools. When I'm on the bus on tour, I use StaffPad and write the notes into my Windows Tablet. The XML into Sibelius and Pro Tools.Customers give me Finale files, I XML into Sibelius. Sometimes customers send me XML directly. So WHERE will Steinberg fit in. I will have to see what the Daniotator and Cubase DAW can do.I'm sure it's going to be good...but maybe far too difficult for school children to use... I find NOTHING WRONG WITH MY MUSIC USING MY SYSTEM! I will obviously check out Steinberg but hell, It really has to be greater...and I don't think they are going to give Sibelius users a free copy, but rather at a discounted price. Are they going subscription as well? These are things we don't know. I tell you, Bob, this all is a crock. It typical musician politics at play here. Being a BandMaster in the Navy Band, I get to do a lot with Band Politics. So here is Mikes answer. HE is at the rubicon...I'm NOT...and only time will tell how many more will commit to AVID. and keep going and not camping at that river! A Military band musician does not go sulk with his tail between his legs just because his bowl of meaty bones was thrown over a wall for other dogs to eat. We go ahead UNTIL we fall. Then we KNOW the target is dead. Steinberg will come up with something...so will AVID! If you LOVE Daniel, then join them, but you can't...right? This subject is useless! -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 11:56PM Hide picture Sorry Hans..I find nothing of worth to respond to here, or that hasnt been said here before. And what is there isnt totally accurate, and has your really unfair slant on things. And other stuff I simply cant understand, > I tell you, Bob, this all is a crock. It typical musician politics at play here. ... This subject is useless! > I sincerely havent the faintest idea what you mean by "its a crock," but I do agree..this subject is USELESS.. AVID made its bed and now has to sleep in it, and is asking people THRU YOU to bend over again. Its had YEARS to make things better, and they havent. Sorry, not me, Hans--you do as you feel right as I will. Only a misguided fool (or stock holder) IMHO would believe theyre going to turn things around. They dont have the leadership knowledge or really capable dev teams to do so, as evidenced by what we have now. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Feb 11:59PM Hide picture Jeff Hale wrote: >Let's not forget that Avid was bought by professional venture capitalists, who made a business decision that what they could squeeze out of the company was more than the purchase price. They then set out to maximize revenue and minimize costs. There is, in their calculation, just enough development going on to get enough users to either pay subscription fees or buy the various products outright to enable them to collect their multi-million dollar "bonuses". In essence, they are milking the company. If they calculated that selling Sibelius, Media Composer, or any other product would bring in more money overall, they would do it. If they thought that putting all revenues back into development would bring more money, they would do that. Unfortunately, they've made the most cynical decision possible -- squeeze everything they can and make their money now. There are still some well-intentioned employees who are trying to fight the good fight, but so far they have done no more than hold the line, if that. There is no good reason to expect that to change. My own feeling is that Bob is more correct than Hans. The only way Avid Management would change its behavior would be for their bottom line to shrink drastically. Buying into the subscription system reinforces their behavior (senior management bonuses are based, in part, on the number of subscriptions sold, according to public information, so this funds obscene compensation rather than further development). Unfortunately, the insurance analogy is probably correct, especially if you use a Mac, which has a long history of making changes in its operating system that require equivalent changes in other software. Windows has, at least, a better track record of backwards compatibility. So if you don't subscribe, you run a very real risk of having to keep patching an old computer for a long time. But maybe, just maybe, if enough people don't subscribe, Avid management will make a business decision to cut Sibelius loose and someone -- I would not bet on Steinberg, which is three years into its own development now -- who would make a good faith effort to develop the software will pick it up. > Again very well said Jeff..+1 -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 18 Feb 12:27AM (edited 18 Feb 12:29AM) Hide picture I'm a bit reluctant to post again after what ensued last time! Just this: "I detect a helluva lot of loyalty [to Avid/Sibelius] here." I'm sorry, but I don't. I detect resentment from quite a few, irritation from some and resignation from the rest. Of course, there's a kind of implied loyalty to Sibelius if you reckon, like me, that you'll be using it for a while. There has been some faint praise for some of the fairly minor improvements in 8.1/8.1.1, that's all. This rather long thread hasn't altered my view of the present or likely future of Sibelius and to be honest, I don't really care any more. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Tony Cliff - 18 Feb 12:58AM Hide picture Sibelius was a much-loved program and the relationship ship between the development team and the users was a very healthy one. Then Avid makes the decision to sack the outstanding team that built this great program. You can see that the user base is now unhappy and suspicious. Then the original design team are taken on by Steinberg (owned by Yamaha which is a massive music company) and people are naturally optimistic that this new product when it is released will be the best available. I suspect that some existing Sibelius users may possibly take up one year only of the yearly subscription merely as an insurance policy. We don't know when the new Steinberg product will be released. Other Sibelius users will refuse to pay any more money to Avid. Notation is quite a select and niche market and it is vital that you keep all the users involved and 'on-board'. Pro Tools is under huge pressure from brilliant programs like Reaper and Avid is not in a healthy financial position. I don't see the market for a professional notation program being particularly huge or profitable so I am sure some products will fall by the wayside. Steinberg (Yamaha) has the resources and connections to become the best. Time will tell. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 18 Feb 01:16AM Hide picture > Sibelius was a much-loved program and the relationship ship between the development team and the users was a very healthy one. Then Avid makes the decision to sack the outstanding team that built this great program. You can see that the user base is now unhappy and suspicious. Then the original design team are taken on by Steinberg (owned by Yamaha which is a massive music company) and people are naturally optimistic that this new product when it is released will be the best available. ... I could be remembering incorrectly, but I recall that Avid had already made a fairly significant cut to the development (or maybe the programming) a year or two staff prior to sacking the whole lot. If I were a suspicious sort, I might imagine Daniel's team realizing they no longer had enough people continue developing a first class product. So they secretly made a deal with Steinberg; then provoked Avid into sacking them. As with good conspiracy theories, we can never know the truth. (But I wouldn't put much faith in this one. :-) ) -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 18 Feb 12:29AM Hide picture > Patric, you are saying this out of EMOSTioN because Daniel is there. If Daniel were still at Avid you would think otherwise. Sibelius might be sold over to Steinberg ONLY IF AVID is folding/bankrupt. In THAT situation, I can see it happen, but Sibelius belongs to AVID and I detect a helluva lot of loyalty here. > Actually, I wasn't particularly emotional when I wrote that, but I do get emotional when people try to tell me what I think. so NOW I'm emotional. :-) Daniel and (what's left of) the Sibelius development team are now working at Steinberg. That causes problem for both Sibelius and the new Steinberg product. The new Sibelius development team does not have the institutional memory of a long-term development team; they have had to learn the internals from scratch. The Steinberg development team knows how things were done in Sibelius and are legally required to avoid doing things that way (except at a very general level). Not good for either team. Avid is not in a good position vis-a-vis Sibelius. Sibelius is a mature product. Current users don't really need updates. We would certainly like to see some bugs fixed and some of the notational warts removed, but we can cope. A lot of us would happily pay for some significant improvements, but significant improvements will probably require a mature development team, and Avid gave that team to Steinberg. We have no way of knowing what Avid would be like if Daniel and his team were still part of the Sibelius team. I suspect I would still dislike Avid, but would probably give it money to keep Sibelius alive. But that is not the world we live in. The Sibelius development team is gone and the new team has yet to prove itself capable of supporting Sibelius in any reasonable fashion. > We MUST stay positive. Those who LOVE Daniel can go to him. AVID will make it, you wait and see. I've never been know for an outstanding positive attitude, and I see no reason to start now. And I don't see how this has anything to do with a love of Daniel. He was a great customer rep, and yes, I guess some of us "love" him for that. But mostly, he put together a great development team that produced a great product. I expect the Steinberg product will (eventually) also be great, but not because Daniel is somehow lovable. And by the way, we also saw that, when forced to use a reduced staff, the results of Daniel's team (Sibelius 7) were not as great as some of us had hoped. > > You guy must admit that the surface pro is a pretty decent step forward, some bugs have been fixed and I DID get some updates...maybe 4 if I recall correctly. Actually, we don't have to admit any such thing. I have no need for a tablet and time spent on designing for such a platform as wasted time. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Peter Roos - 18 Feb 03:23AM Hide picture Wow - pretty emotional debate. My thoughts: 1. Sibelius is a wonderful piece of software. Despite its quirks and bugs, it has made writing and orchestrating music, and making it look great, infinitely easier. Think back about the pencil and paper days. 2. Avid is a listed company. Sibelius is not its only product; there's also Pro Tools, Avid Media Composer (the video editing program), Venue (live sound), storage solutions, Avid everywhere cloud bullshit, and who knows what. Sibelius is only one of the revenue streams, so keep that in mind. 3. Avid is managed by its executive management, supervised by a board of directors, who are primarily responsible for creating great returns for the shareholders. In the last couple of years, they failed miserably in that mission. I'm trying to give Hernandez the benefit of the doubt (by contrast to his predecessor Greenfield, who was a total prick), but he's still earning too much ... as a gesture of good will he should maybe cut his own salary back to $1 per year until the company is back on the rise .. 4. There's a lot of different stuff going on at the same time, and Sam and Joe are just two small cogs in a very large wheel ... let's support them and never take it personally against them. Daniel is a beautiful guy and he'll probably come up with something that will blow our minds ... no one doubts his dedication, integrity, or support ... but there is no time horizon on when Steinberg will release Daniel's brainchild. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 18 Feb 10:11AM Hide picture Hi gents, I agree with a lot of things you are saying. I'm a musician and not a business man. I left Finale for the same reasons and I really believed MakeMusic will fold. They did some management moves and, although Finale has not really improved since then, MakeMusic is still among us. I have heard from a lot of sources that Finale is a better program than Sibelius and that Sibelius is for kids. But after trying out the trial, I noticed that I have to do with something far better than Finale. I've never been a lover (fanboy) of software. It's a tool to get the job done. So Sibelius became my notator of choice. Immediately I noticed I have to do with amazing programmers which MakeMusic lacks. Yeah, so when Daniel left AVID (possibly staged by himself as someone said), I was upset, because I thought Sibelius is in the grave just around the time I joined. But, I kept on using Sibelius and was very excited when I learned that Avid employed new programmers to work on Sibelius. I really did not want to go back to Finale so it was very important to me that Avid sort themselves out and continue the Sibelius project. So, admittedly, I must confess some emotion here. I needed Sibelius improvement, not a demise. Gents, these programmers came on board at a very awkward time. They are sandwiched between the Management and the User Base and need time to prove themselves. So, NOT being a business orientated man, I CAN, at least, sense some tactics here. Avid obviously need the capital to develop Sibelius, so they came up with the new payment scheme. IF Avid did that just to fill executive's pockets, I'm devastated, and see the end of Sibelius. If Avid uses the money wisely, Sibelius CAN be made into the tool of choice. Naturally, the users will be skeptical but THIS IS WHAT MY OPINION ALL ABOUT: The users MUST, at least, give AVID the time to catch up again and prove themselves. IF, after a year, there is no improvement, THEN I will agree that Avid killed Sibelius. I don't care what the management's salaries are. I care for Sibelius. So, all I'm saying, let's ease the terrible grip we have on Sibelius' management and give them the time to show their intent. So, I subscribed...I did MY part. Now I'm waiting to see. You should agree that there are many users NOT subscribing yet "to see". So Avid is still not getting enough finances to improve Sibelius. So they must, somehow, impress without capital. Regarding the handwriting model (Surface Pro), there ARE those who love it. To be able to write the notes on the screen is a fantastic idea...especially for those who cannot play a keyboard. You know, some guys might really like that timeline at the bottom of the screen...I don't. But I don't go to Avid (or on this forum) and tantrum about it because Avid provides features great for one and useless for another. So please Avid, don't stop your development for the surface pro. OK, so on closing (hopefully), I'm on board with you guys, but I truly hope that Sibelius will impress again...and if not, there is hope for the future, Steinberg. But please my friends, let's give Avid this one chance (a year or so) to prove themselves. This post is basically how I feel about the Sibelius situation. Blessings to all of you, my friends. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 18 Feb 10:47AM Hide picture Hans wrote: >Avid obviously need the capital to develop Sibelius, so they came up with the new payment scheme. IF Avid did that just to fill executive's pockets, I'm devastated, and see the end of Sibelius > Hans--please see: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/03/30/avid-executive-pay-jumps-company-struggles/VHWtVvoGXQ9Qgp3QGU2cYM/story.html The president and chief executive, Louis Hernandez Jr., received $6.5 million in total compensation in 2014, up from $5.2 million in 2013 Hernandez’s salary, as well as his bonus and various stock and option awards, all increased for the period. Chief financial officer John Frederick’s compensation increased to $4.2 million, from $3.2 million in 2013, Now thats just TWO of AVIDS upper management--almost 11 MILLION dollars! And this is when the company is struggling.. You crying poverty on behalf of AVID simply doesnt ring true, now does it Hans? Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 18 Feb 11:05AM Hide picture Bloody Hell! They pay 3 times more that South Africa's president, Zuma! In THAT case, Avid seem to have enough funds. There is no reason not to develop Sibelius. If Sibelius folds, I can definitely understand your viewpoint Bob. AVID does, therefore, nor care at all about us and our needs. But like I said above somewhere, AVID will have to sort themselves out from the TOP to bottom. I wonder what will happen to AVID when Steinberg absorbs most of its clients. Like Peter Roos said, those guys will get $1 for a salary! It still saddens me because Sibelius has a special place in my heart. It is my main tool of choice. Nee wat ou Bob! Kom ons kyk en sien wat gebeur by daai rivier. (Oh well Bob!, let's wait and see what happens at that river) :-) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 18 Feb 11:23AM Hide picture >Bloody Hell! They pay 3 times more that South Africa's president, Zuma! In THAT case, Avid seem to have enough funds. There is no reason not to develop Sibelius. > Indeed, Hans. >I wonder what will happen to AVID when Steinberg absorbs most of its clients. Like Peter Roos said, those guys will get $1 for a salary! > Im again sorry to point this out but thats NOT what Peter said, which is quoted below: "I'm trying to give Hernandez the benefit of the doubt (by contrast to his predecessor Greenfield, who was a total prick), but he's still earning too much ... as a gesture of good will he should maybe cut his own salary back to $1 per year until the company is back on the rise ." So he was saying Hernandez, AVIDS CEO, should cut his salary back to $1 per year, as a gesture of good will, until AVID recovers. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 18 Feb 11:37AM Hide picture > >Bloody Hell! They pay 3 times more that South Africa's president, Zuma! > > In THAT case, Avid seem to have enough funds. There is no reason not to develop Sibelius. > > > > Indeed, Hans. > > >I wonder what will happen to AVID when Steinberg absorbs most of its clients. Like Peter Roos said, those guys will get $1 for a salary! > > > > Im again sorry to point this out but thats NOT what Peter said, which is quoted below: > > "I'm trying to give Hernandez the benefit of the doubt (by contrast to his predecessor Greenfield, who was a total prick), but he's still earning too much ... as a gesture of good will he should maybe cut his own salary back to $1 per year until the company is back on the rise ." > > So he was saying Hernandez, AVIDS CEO, should cut his salary back to $1 per year, as a gesture of good will, until AVID recovers. > > Thanks Bob > > -- > Bob Morabito > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD > > https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Bob, that is actually what I meant, just in a different way. Instead doing it on good will, he'll be forced/broke. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 18 Feb 11:32AM Hide picture You know, I still have this one thing eating at my soul. Bill Gates is maybe the richest man on earth. Yet MicroSoft has gone subscription. The same with Norton, All anti-Virus Software, PowerDVD, Grammarly, Netflix, Lynda.com, GPS Navigation Software AND have you seen the Apple's in-apps purchases. Lots of them have annual subscriptions, the same with Android apps. We daily accept subscription-based stuff. This seems to be the "in-thing" lately. WHY so sore about Avid going subscription? -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Jeff Hale - 18 Feb 03:53PM Hide picture > Now thats just TWO of AVIDS upper management--almost 11 MILLION dollars! And this is when the company is struggling.. You crying poverty on behalf of AVID simply doesnt ring true, now does it Hans? > Sadly, poverty has nothing to do with it. Avid is being milked by finance professionals, who will then cut and run once it is dry. They've as much as announced that. >We daily accept subscription-based stuff. This seems to be the "in-thing" lately. WHY so sore about Avid going subscription? > The subscription model is legitimate, especially for mature software like Finale or Sibelius that already has a large percentage of its potential user base signed up. The issue here is, what are you getting for your subscription? So far it has largely been the same thing you already own. Users have been asked to pay in advance for features that have not been announced, with no guarantee (or, really, even much hope) that they will get anything for their money. In a way, I think the contract between the current iteration of Avid and the hyper-customer-focused attention that Daniel gave is what's driving a lot of the bitterness. If things hadn't been so great before, people's expectations would never have been so high. (I've wondered for years now whether Avid sacked Daniel at least in part because, at a time when they were selling help [remember Avid Support Codes?] Daniel was giving it for free, decreasing revenues.) -- windows 10 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 18 Feb 04:08PM Hide picture O well, I guess a lot will be revealed in the next six months OR when my subscription year is over. All we can do is wait and see. As for those CEO's, they seem to be just like that money grabbing "preachers" in that mega Bible belt "churches". The "sheep" pays and the "shepherds" fly in private jets. Now THAT makes me sore. Those CEO's should be replaced if it were possible. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Neil Sands - 18 Feb 04:17PM (edited 18 Feb 04:18PM) Hide picture > (I've wondered for years now whether Avid sacked Daniel at least in part because, at a time when they were selling help [remember Avid Support Codes?] Daniel was giving it for free, decreasing revenues.) The simplest explanation is the most likely to be right: that the Finsbury Park team were sacked because Avid wanted to recruit cheap Ukrainian labour. That is after all what they attempted to do. If they'd wanted to stop Daniel doling out help on this chatpage they could have asked him to stop doling out help on this chatpage. No need to sack the entire team over it. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Rob Tuley - 18 Feb 04:48PM Hide picture > ... the Finsbury Park team were sacked because Avid wanted to recruit cheap Ukrainian labour. That is after all what they attempted to do. So really, the current situation isn't Avid's fault at all. The person to blame for Sibelius is obviously Putin, when he "destabilized" the Ukraine just as Avid were starting to get their money-saving act together! ;-) But actually I think the problems go a lot further back than the departure of Daniel. Sibelius had pretty much followed the same path to destruction as majority of small successful high-tech companies. It never figured out how to make the transition to being a bigger successful company. It makes no sense for the guy notionally leading the team to be spending 16 hours a day 7 days a week on the support forum, which is where Daniel seemed to end up. With a bit of luck, being uprooted into a new environment in Steinberg will re-focus the talent on developing software that doesn't NEED 24-7-365 free support from the head of the development team to keep its users happy. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 7. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Peter Roos - 19 Feb 03:24AM Hide picture Bob --- yes, that is what I'm saying, morally I think Hernandez should cut his salary back to $1 per year, and the other executive officers should do the same. If you look at Avid's financials, their executive compensation doesn't make any sense --- their 2014 net income was $15 million, and yet CEO Hernandez' compensation is nearly $7 million?!? Doesn't make any sense. http://ir.avid.com/financials-statements.cfm http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/techflash/2015/03/avid-ceo-sees-2014-compensation-rise-to-nearly-7m.html -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 19 Feb 04:01AM Hide picture > If you look at Avid's financials, their executive compensation doesn't make any sense --- their 2014 net income was $15 million, and yet CEO Hernandez' compensation is nearly $7 million?!? > > Doesn't make any sense. Huh, since when did CEO compensation of large corporations make sense? Such people seem to inhabit a different universe, with little or no contact with our universe. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Bob Morabito - 19 Feb 04:38AM Hide picture > Bob --- yes, that is what I'm saying, morally I think Hernandez should cut his salary back to $1 per year, and the other executive officers should do the same. > > If you look at Avid's financials, their executive compensation doesn't make any sense --- their 2014 net income was $15 million, and yet CEO Hernandez' compensation is nearly $7 million?!? > > Doesn't make any sense. > > http://ir.avid.com/financials-statements.cfm > > http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/techflash/2015/03/avid-ceo-sees-2014-compensation-rise-to-nearly-7m.html Hi Peter--I couldnt agree with you more..I often wonder how and why the stockholders put up with this, when AVID's stock isnt doing very well--it closed today at $7.32. Youre soo right..it doesnt make ANY sense.. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 19 Feb 09:09AM (edited 19 Feb 10:05AM) Hide picture Well, my friends, it seems that we (Sibelius users) are not the only ones waiting on Daniel to come up with something great and new. Years ago I owned ENCORE from Passport Company (I used some DOS notator just before that) and was very disappointed when they folded. It was for Windows 3.11 and FAR nicer than that DOS thing. So, I got a copy of Finale from a colleague in the Army Band (cannot remember if it was a cracked version), but it also worked on DOS. I really did not like Finale compared to Encore because after running Finale.exe, you only got this one bar staring at you. I had no CLUE how to use Finale for DOS, so I stuck with Encore. Then (2001 or 2002 if I remember correctly), Finale was coded for Windows! I got a copy (again from that colleague of mine) and started to learn Finale. I really became a fanboy and Power User of Finale. I invested every year when they brought out a new upgrade. BUT...after a few years (2012), I already disliked Finale just because they ALWAYS (like iOS) looks the same, bugs were hardly ever fixed and so forth. I did tinker with Sibelius 6 now and then... but it felt like I was cheating on my wife. BUT, when Sibelius 7 was released, I purchased a copy (box set delivered at my door) and started doing some projects in Finale and some in Sibelius. Sibelius LOOKED great. I loved the colours. The purple and blue selection bars enticed me. The RIBBON really gripped me because Finale AND Sibelius 6 had millions of buttons and menu trees to remember. So...I quickly shifted my loyalties to Sibelius. To me, Sibelius was a better tool than Finale. Shortly after that, Daniel and Co. were fired and it was at THIS point I was afraid that I might have made a mistake to purchase Sibelius. I really thought it was the end of Sibelius. So I just kept on using Sibelius and was EXTATIC when I learned that AVID put a new ensemble of programmers to keep on developing Sibelius. Now, if Bob and you other boys think that Sibelius are steering towards a deep ABYSS, I guess I will have to change my loyalties towards AVID and move to Steinberg. I know a little bit of Cubase 5, but a big learning period will await me. Well, now it seems to me that Finale fanboys are also taking our attitude regarding Finale as our guys do about Sibelius. It seems that Steinberg (and maybe even MuseScore) might become the software of choice. I'd rather put my money on StaffPad if Sibelius falters. http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&m=462373&g=462376#m462376 Seriously guys, over the years Finale has hardly moved ahead. Some minor features and a few major ones like the Score Setup, 64bit, and VST support. Finale still looks the same. There is, however, another boy on the block, StaffPad, which should not be underestimated. I don't know, maybe I will use StaffPad and just export XML to Sibelius. Currently, Sibelius does everything I need it to do. StaffPad, however, is not a gimmick or toy. It is a serious notator which even accepts voice commands lately. Those programmers seem to be just like Daniel and Co. It is just a pity that StaffPad (Like Sibelius 8) can not be made for iOS or iPad Pro. Sibelius 8 and Notion and StaffPad is made to run on the Windows ecosystem while Notion can also run on and iPad. MuseScore...well it looks ok, I'm not sure if I would ever use it as my main system. But who knows, maybe it will surprise us all in the future. Who knows, maybe Finale and Sibelius has had it's season which is coming to its end. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 19 Feb 09:59AM (edited 19 Feb 09:59AM) Hide picture The ribbon will always be a source of controversy, though since I started using it last summer I found I quite liked it, as the things I wanted are available quickly. (If it seems odd that I started with version 7 so recently, the story behind that is that I purchased it some time back, but couldn't use it on the computer I then had.) But that's history. I can't comment on the other existing programs Hans mentions, but I would caution anyone getting enthusiastic about the new Steinberg notation program ("son of Sibelius" I called it once) not to go overboard. If it storms out of the blocks as a mature, well-tested program that is stable and has an efficient work-flow, as well as producing state-of-the-art engraving and wonderful, glitch-free play-back I will be delighted, but rather surprised as well. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 19 Feb 10:28AM (edited 19 Feb 11:57AM) Hide picture > I can't comment on the other existing programs Hans mentions, but I would caution anyone getting enthusiastic about the new Steinberg notation program ("son of Sibelius" I called it once) not to go overboard. If it storms out of the blocks as a mature, well-tested program that is stable and has an efficient work-flow, as well as producing state-of-the-art engraving and wonderful, glitch-free play-back I will be delighted, but rather surprised as well. > > -- WITH THIS CHRIS, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. The first notator I used was for Commodore 64 and DOS, called "Bank Street Music Writer". It was BLUE, my man... BLUE!! Only ONE sound, that of a MIDI Keyboard plugged into the printer port, otherwise, there is no musical output. But those years it was a blessing that I could ditch the pen and manuscript paper. I attached a screenshot. Then Windows 3.1 was released and also "Encore" which had a windows interface. I REALLY liked that notator during those years and was angry when Passport Co. stopped the development of Encore. But...I'm cheating on my wife (Sibelius)and often visit my mistress...StaffPad :) > Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Chris...do you have 64GIG of RAM!!?? WOW! You're blessed! -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Attachment score.jpg (31K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 10:50AM Hide picture Many years ago I paid quite a lot of money for a Steinberg score-writing program for Atari ST. Those were the days when Steinberg was in the habit of acquiring third-party software and hardware, promoting it for a time under their brand and then dumping it. (Yes, folks! Robin Hood has a past!) I think I've still got the dongle. Wonder if Steinberg will honour an upgrade path? :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 19 Feb 11:01AM Hide picture "Chris...do you have 64GIG of RAM!!?? WOW! You're blessed!" No, Hans, I'm not blessed... I bloody well paid for it. And Laurence thinks I didn't need it. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 11:36AM Hide picture > "Chris...do you have 64GIG of RAM!!?? WOW! You're blessed!" > > No, Hans, I'm not blessed... I bloody well paid for it. > > And Laurence thinks I didn't need it. > Did you? I've just doubled the 8GB of my music computer to 16GB, purely because an 8GB memory stick was lying around doing nothing while another computer in for repairs waited for parts to arrive. I will be fascinated to see, over the next few days, whether it makes any practical difference. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 19 Feb 11:43AM Hide picture Hi Chris, I have 2 RAM slots. Both have 8GIG totalling in 16Gig. I cannot find 32Gig RAM chip here in South Africa...but that was last year. Maybe, when I get some bucks to spend, I look around again. Does anybody have Sibelius for DOS still available so I can download it? I really want to take another look at it? -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Robin Walker - 19 Feb 11:50AM Hide picture There never was a version of Sibelius for DOS. Before Sibelius 1 for Windows and for Mac, Sibelius existed as an application for RISC OS machines. -- Sibelius 8.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 11:50AM Hide picture > Does anybody have Sibelius for DOS still available so I can download it? I really want to take another look at it? > I might have a cassete tape of the Sinclair ZX81 version somewhere... :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 19 Feb 11:54AM (edited 26 Feb 01:26PM) Hide picture > > Does anybody have Sibelius for DOS still available so I can download it? I really want to take another look at it? > > > > I might have a cassete tape of the Sinclair ZX81 version somewhere... :-) I also had a ZX81 with that weird little silver printer. The I got myself a BBC Micro, Commodore 64 and the went to PC. Gee, I remember loading my games and stuff from a tape recorder. Then I got my BC Micro with 1.2mb space. Then I got my first external hard drive for the BBC...I think is was 20mb. That was A LOT OF SPACE! My favourite game was "ELITE"! Also created by British programmers...If memory serves. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Adrian Drover - 19 Feb 12:54PM Hide picture Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 11:50 I might have a cassete tape of the Sinclair ZX81 version somewhere... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, and Laurence can deliver it by Sinclair C5 car. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 19 Feb 01:03PM (edited 19 Feb 01:10PM) Hide picture Laurence I know you're joking. I don't think that ZX81 can run Finale on a 64KB machine! I do, however, remember playing those blocky games like Space Invaders on a Black and White TV. South Africa only got TV in 1974. But seriously, is there anybody out there that can give me the very first Sibelius and Finale? I will appreciate it. And while I'm in the begging mode, is there a rich person out there that can donate me a Surface Pro 4? MicroSoft don't sell the Surface in South Africa. :( High hopes, I guess.:) PS Also, with the terrible exchange rate we pay 16 times more for imported items. For each dollar, I pay 15.6ZAR! -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Adrian Drover - 19 Feb 01:30PM Hide picture I've got 10 Namibian bucks which no one was happy to accept in Z.A. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 01:45PM Hide picture > But seriously, is there anybody out there that can give me the very first Sibelius and Finale? I will appreciate it. To run the first Sibelius you'll need an Acorn Archimedes computer running RISC OS. I think Finale started on Windows. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Chris Crawley - 19 Feb 02:40PM Hide picture " Laurence thinks I didn't need it. > Did you?" Not yet, no. As I think I said at the time, two impulses were at work: a probable over-reaction to the cripplingly small RAM I had before; and a wish to insure myself against as-yet unforeseen scenarios, e.g. big sound libraries. But it does mean I can run a lot of stuff together, e.g. leave a big Sibelius score open while I edit a RAW photo file. But I probably don't get near maximum usage. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Feb 03:00PM Hide picture If my extra 8GB is making any difference, it's probably in stuff loading faster on SECOND use. I'm getting the impression that, having tried playback with both systems, both the NotePerformer AND Sibelius 7 Sounds sample data for a score are being cached in RAM for rapid access. Of course, storing them on a SSD was what made the BIG difference. I'm going to try some video rendering later on. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by sasheriff - 20 Feb 06:17AM (edited 20 Feb 03:26PM) Hide picture When I click on the 8.1.1 update link is says file not found and my Application Manager isn't connecting. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Robin Walker - 20 Feb 04:32PM Hide picture > When I click on the 8.1.1 update link is says file not found What "update link" are you referring to? > and my Application Manager isn't connecting. Close down the operating system and restart. -- Sibelius 8.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Scott Roewe - 20 Feb 07:36PM Hide picture I cannot successfully download the 8.1 update link for Mac... This is the link I am referring to... http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/secured/Sibelius_8_1_1_Mac_89650.dmg?ns=1&aktoken=1455999726_2b79631123ac40d15d00eb831a36d507 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Scott Roewe - 20 Feb 07:38PM Hide picture I get a "file not found message" when I click on that link...if someone could list a link that works, that would be much appreciated. Thank you, Scott Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Robin Walker - 20 Feb 07:52PM Hide picture http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/secured/Sibelius_8_1_1_Mac_89650.dmg?ns=1&aktoken=1455999726_2b79631123ac40d15d00eb831a36d507 I successfully downloaded 913MB from that link in about 10 minutes, in the UK. That host name is part of a Content Delivery Network, and resolves to different physical servers according to where in the world you are. So, if you are having trouble with downloads from "akmedia.digidesign.com" you need to say where in the world you are. -- Sibelius 8.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 26 Feb 01:46PM Hide picture > "...Of course, storing them on an SSD was what made the BIG difference..." > I absolutely agree with Laurence. When I installed my OS on the 512Gig SSD and EWQLSO on my 125Gig SSD AND 16GIG Ram, My PC's performance is impeccable! But guys, please be advised that there are slow SSD's and fast SSD's. Make sure on the box that you get (I'm NOT going to open my PC now to check), something like 6GIG data transfer per second. That's Fast. My windows 10 loads in, something like 8 seconds! An SSD makes one helluva difference. Now, having the tools, I now need the inspiration to compose something worthwhile! :) PS. Guys, on another note, as an Afrikaans speaking boerseun, I discovered "Grammarly" on the net and WOW! what a difference. It does not only correct my spelling but also grammar issues. Anway, I don't work for them (I'm in the Navy)...but a cool piece of software. Apparently grammar professors had great input in it's design. Thing is...THEY ARE ALSO SUBSCRIPTION!! What a pity, I would have liked to purchase it once off because my English suck...big time! :-) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 26 Feb 05:00PM Hide picture > > "...Of course, storing them on an SSD was what made the BIG difference..." > > > I absolutely agree with Laurence. When I installed my OS on the 512Gig SSD and EWQLSO on my 125Gig SSD AND 16GIG Ram, My PC's performance is impeccable! But guys, please be advised that there are slow SSD's and fast SSD's. Make sure on the box that you get (I'm NOT going to open my PC now to check), something like 6GIG data transfer per second. That's Fast. My windows 10 loads in, something like 8 seconds! > The speed of the SSD is not the whole story. There are 2 fairly common compatible interfaces for SSD: SATA III (which can run up to 6GB/s) and SATA II (which can run up to 3GB/s). Even if you have a SATA III drive, an old motherboard may support only SATA II connections. Or, like an old PC of mine, have what are technically SATA III ports but that run at just above SATA II speed. ()And no, I don't know what SATA stands for. I could look it up, but I'm not going to.) -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 28 Feb 10:45AM (edited 28 Feb 10:57AM) Hide picture > The speed of the SSD is not the whole story. There are 2 fairly common compatible interfaces for SSD: SATA III (which can run up to 6GB/s) and SATA II (which can run up to 3GB/s). Even if you have an SATA III drive, an old motherboard may support only SATA II connections. Or, like an old PC of mine, have what are technically SATA III ports but that run at just above SATA II speed. ()And no, I don't know what SATA stands for. I could look it up, but I'm not going to.) > > > -- > Patrick O'Keefe > > Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff > Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Patric is correct. I actually forgot to THIS point. I have 3 SATA III Ports and 3 SATA II ports...and two ports for a cd/blu-ray drive and older HDD. SSD is cool. I must get one more...I have space. Now I'm going to tell you something cool. My motherboard has 1 x VGA 1 X DVA and 1 X HDMI port. a Few weeks ago I got this wild idea and decided to give it a go, so I plugged a monitor in each port...AND IT WORKS! My PC is running 3 monitors...my mouse goes from one to the other to the other! I never thought that I could actually run 3 monitors connected to one motherboard :-) So now I work Sibelius on one, the second a web page and mixer and a movie (usually some TV series like Magnum PI) on the 3rd monitor. So when I edit the score and parts, the movie is playing. My second monitor is actually a big screen tv, of which I used the HDMI port. So I split the desktop on that screen and the mixer in nice and big. The keypad is also much bigger on monitor 2. Sorry, Mac guys...I don't think you gents can do this:-) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Laurence Payne - 28 Feb 12:44PM Hide picture > PS. Guys, on another note, as an Afrikaans speaking boerseun, I discovered "Grammarly" on the net and WOW! what a difference. It does not only correct my spelling but also grammar issues. Anway, I don't work for them (I'm in the Navy)...but a cool piece of software. Apparently grammar professors had great input in it's design. Thing is...THEY ARE ALSO SUBSCRIPTION!! What a pity, I would have liked to purchase it once off because my English suck...big time! :-) >>> Did you run that paragraph through Grammerly? There's one slightly ungainly construction "It does not only correct my spelling..." and one definite error "...my English suck...". You understand I'm investigating Grammerly, not criticising you :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.x: Sibelius 8.1.1 Update now available Posted by Hans Nel - 01 Mar 08:17PM Hide picture > > PS. Guys, on another note, as an Afrikaans speaking boerseun, I discovered "Grammarly" on the net and WOW! what a difference. It does not only correct my spelling but also grammar issues. Anway, I don't work for them (I'm in the Navy)...but a cool piece of software. Apparently grammar professors had great input in it's design. Thing is...THEY ARE ALSO SUBSCRIPTION!! What a pity, I would have liked to purchase it once off because my English suck...big time! :-) > >>> > > Did you run that paragraph through Grammerly? There's one slightly ungainly construction "It does not only correct my spelling..." and one definite error "...my English suck...". You understand I'm investigating Grammerly, not criticising you :-) Well, I'm not qualified to react to this. At least it makes my posts a bit more English correct. -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads