'Beaming issue with rest'

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Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 02:53AM
     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Justin at Sibelius, 30 Apr 06:19PM
         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:27PM
             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:28PM
         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:33PM
             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 30 Apr 09:55PM
                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Justin at Sibelius, 01 May 05:35PM
                     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 05:46PM
                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 05:47PM
                     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 01 May 05:54PM
                         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 06:02PM
                             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 01 May 08:02PM
                                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 02 May 01:53AM

Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 30 Apr 02:53AM
Hi,

I'm having an odd issue with a beam and sub-beam over a rest with a score that was given to me. See image. Normally, when I have a figure of eighth note - 16th rest - 16th note, the beam looks like the green circle on the right with the rest inside. But on this score, when I try to do that, for some reason, it's extending that sub-beam all the way to the rest (red circle).

I've never had this issue before and can't seem to correct it. Any ideas?

Thanks for any help!
Attachment Sib beam issue.png (142K)
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Justin at Sibelius - 30 Apr 06:19PM
The green circle is a dotted 8th, not an 8th note then 16th rest. Regardless, the way to fix the sub-beam is to select the 16th note rest, go to the third keypad layout, and hit the sub-beam button. This will have it "attach" to the rest or not.

--
Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
[email protected]

Contact the Sibelius support team:
https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support

KB and other resources:
https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 30 Apr 07:27PM
> The green circle is a dotted 8th, not an 8th note then 16th rest. Regardless, the way to fix the sub-beam is to select the 16th note rest, go to the third keypad layout, and hit the sub-beam button. This will have it "attach" to the rest or not.
>
> --
> Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
> [email protected]
>
> Contact the Sibelius support team:
> https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support
>
> KB and other resources:
> https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support

Thanks. Yes, I know the examples I circled are different. I just meant that I want the beam and sub-beam to look like the one in the green circle, which is the way it normally looks when I have an 8th-16th rest-16th note figure.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, I've always done exactly what you said to do in order to achieve this. And I've done that here. (See attached "sub-beam" image.)

Or are you talking about another button? I've tried them all, but I assume this is the one you mean, because it's the only one that mentions "secondary beam" when you hover.




Attachment sub-beam.png (80K)
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 30 Apr 07:28PM
When I create a new score and do those same steps (select the "Start secondary beam" button for the rest), it does what I want. (See attached "test" image.)

For some reason, though, in this score, it's doing this odd thing.
Attachment test.png (25K)
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 30 Apr 07:33PM
> The green circle is a dotted 8th, not an 8th note then 16th rest. Regardless, the way to fix the sub-beam is to select the 16th note rest, go to the third keypad layout, and hit the sub-beam button. This will have it "attach" to the rest or not.
>
> --
> Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
> [email protected]
>
> Contact the Sibelius support team:
> https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support
>
> KB and other resources:
> https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support

I'm attaching the file here, just in case it sheds any light. (I know there are plenty of other issues going on here. I was in the process of editing it when I came across this issue.)

Thanks
Attachment Sub-beam issue.sib (86K)
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Kai Struck - 30 Apr 09:55PM
Easiest way to fix seems to be to open the Engraving rules go to the beaming tab and click ok. Even without changing any settings.

--
Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
--
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Justin at Sibelius - 01 May 05:35PM
So there does seem to be a bug in there somewhere. An important note: you don't have "optical beam positions" enabled. If you use that feature, this bug goes away since it overhauled how the beams are drawn. They tend to look much better with that option as well. If not, Kai's suggestion also works, which is strange but likely an old bug. These days it's assumed that all scores will be using Optical beam positions so it's probably not going to be fixed in the future, I'm sorry to say.

--
Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
[email protected]

Contact the Sibelius support team:
https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support

KB and other resources:
https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 01 May 05:46PM
> So there does seem to be a bug in there somewhere. An important note: you don't have "optical beam positions" enabled. If you use that feature, this bug goes away since it overhauled how the beams are drawn. They tend to look much better with that option as well. If not, Kai's suggestion also works, which is strange but likely an old bug. These days it's assumed that all scores will be using Optical beam positions so it's probably not going to be fixed in the future, I'm sorry to say.
>
> --
> Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
> [email protected]
>
> Contact the Sibelius support team:
> https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support
>
> KB and other resources:
> https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support

Thanks so much. Switching on "optical beam positions" did the trick. I'm still fairly new to Sibelius, so I wasn't even aware of this setting. I assume it's auto-enabled by default for a new score, so that's why I never had the issue before.

But this score came from someone else, and he must have disabled that accidentally or for some other reason.

Anyway, it's all good now. Thanks again!
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 01 May 05:47PM
> Easiest way to fix seems to be to open the Engraving rules go to the beaming tab and click ok. Even without changing any settings.
>
> --
> Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
> Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
> http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
> Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
> https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
> https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
> --

Thank you for the reply. The "optical beam positions" option took care of the issue, but I'll keep this in mind for the future!
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Kai Struck - 01 May 05:54PM
Glad, it works for you. But even when "optical beam positions" is a good idea it wasn't the cause of your issue. Your issue also disappears without "optical beam positions" when clicking ok on the dialog. Haha, I like it to be pedantic.

--
Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
--
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 01 May 06:02PM
> Glad, it works for you. But even when "optical beam positions" is a good idea it wasn't the cause of your issue. Your issue also disappears without "optical beam positions" when clicking ok on the dialog. Haha, I like it to be pedantic.
>
> --
> Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
> Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
> http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
> Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
> https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
> https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
> --

Thanks. However, I can't find exactly what you're talking about. When I go to Engraving Rules, I don't see a "Beaming" tab (or option). The closest thing is "Beams and Stems." (I'm on Windows running a 2022 version, so maybe that's different on a Mac or a more recent version?)

Within that page, I don't see anywhere to "click ok."

I do see these options though (see image). Is that to what you're referring?
Attachment Engraving Rules.png (59K)
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Kai Struck - 01 May 08:02PM
Yes, in this dialog it is sufficient to click on ok (on the bottom right) without having turned on "optical beam positions" and your problem gets fixed.
My answer was to point out that it isn't this specific setting that was causing your problem but a kind of (minor) import bug.

--
Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
--
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Re: Beaming issue with rest
Posted by Famous Beagle - 02 May 01:53AM
> Yes, in this dialog it is sufficient to click on ok (on the bottom right) without having turned on "optical beam positions" and your problem gets fixed.
> My answer was to point out that it isn't this specific setting that was causing your problem but a kind of (minor) import bug.
>
> --
> Windows7 / 10, Sibelius 7.1.3 / Ultimate 2023
> Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
> http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
> Inkscape 1.2 Extension: Sibelius Viewbox
> https://struckkai.blogspot.com/2023/05/inkscape-12-extension-sibelius-viewbox.html
> https://inkscape.org/~musikai/%E2%98%85sibelius-viewbox
> --

Ok, thanks much!
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Messages in this thread

Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 02:53AM
     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Justin at Sibelius, 30 Apr 06:19PM
         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:27PM
             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:28PM
         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 30 Apr 07:33PM
             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 30 Apr 09:55PM
                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Justin at Sibelius, 01 May 05:35PM
                     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 05:46PM
                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 05:47PM
                     Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 01 May 05:54PM
                         Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 01 May 06:02PM
                             Re: Beaming issue with rest - Kai Struck, 01 May 08:02PM
                                 Re: Beaming issue with rest - Famous Beagle, 02 May 01:53AM