Is there any way a plugin can be designed which would allow me to split bar on both sides of a selection, like in the attached picture below.
Yes, this is such a first world problem, and I know I can do it in a few steps using "split bar." But I'm so often splicing out music within a bar when I'm composing, that it'd be great to do it with one powerful plugin that gets me 80% of the way there.
You could write one yourself if you so desired. All the parts are available.
You could get close to what you want with a macro in Execute Commands. This could be refined and you need to watch out not to start your selection at the start of a bar or end it at the end of the score, but given that, the commands in snap1 will give the results in snap 2.
You will get the split bar dialog showing up twice, but other than that and the somewhat funky final selection this is the result you asked for. Here is an annotation of the macro commands
1. ExitIfSelection stops the plugin if you do not have a passage selection
2. SaveSelection will save off the selection
3. Extend SelectionRight and SelectLastNoteChordRest selected the note or rest following the original selection
4. Split Bar splits before the now-selected note
5. Restore Selection gives us bah the original selection
6. Split bar splits just before the first selected note.
*******************************************************
ExitIfSelection_NotPassage_cu(A passage selection is required. This plugin will now exit.)
SaveSelection_cu()
// select note following end of selection
ExtendSelection_Right_cu()
Select_Last_NoteChordRest_cu()
Split Bar (Plug-in 642)
RestoreSelection_cu()
Split Bar (Plug-in 642)
Run Execute Commands, find these commands and add them to the command list. Try it to see how it works. Export List to save off your macro (otherwise it disappears at the end of the Sibelius session).
There are lots of different commands you could use. Realize that macros don't know what just happened, so they might keep moving along if something fails. Examine results carefully, and use undo if you don't like it.
One could have more finesse by writing your own plugin in ManuScript, but this is not bad. You can generate a new plugin that uses these commands if you like the results.
Thanks to your very helpful guidance, I'm able to achieve what I wanted.
One question I have is that I couldn't find your third item on the list:
// select note following end of selection
I tried copy/pasting from your message, and a whole variety of search combinations, and it doesn't seem to appear as a command that appears in the "Find in list" window. Of course I may be wrong on that, or maybe I'm not understanding the type of command it is.
Just to try it out, I tried executing the command list without that item, and it actually works the way you described.
I've attached 3 pictures:
1. The command list I used.
2. The initial selection pre-execution.
3. The final result post-execution + deselecting everything.
[EDIT] It looks like I can only post one picture at a time in a quick reply...so I'll do 3 replies.
any command starting with // is a comment and does not execute. It is just for documentation. You can use the Add Comment button to add a comment.The macro will run fine without the comment.
I tend to be pretty "commenty" in my code especially if it will not be not obvious to me looking at it later. But it is entirely optional.
> attachments: you can edit a message you created, and then hit the browse button without deleting previous attachments to have multiple attachments on a single message.
Thanks alot Bob; this all makes perfect sense now. I understand both the use of comments in the execute macro, and how to add multiple attachments in a single message.
****TUTORIAL FOR BEGINNERS****
For beginners who might wander into this thread, and who want to cut the bar at the beginning and end of any selection (sort of like a "splice", here is a link to a completed plugin from my Google Drive:
The plugin is called "Split Before After Selection".
Once you downloaded the plugin, just drop it in the Sibelius plugins folder. To find that folder: in the Finder, pressing shift-command-G, and pasting this into the blank field:
I am pleased and impressed that you were able to both reproduce the macro and turn it into a plugin. I seriously considered attaching a copy of my .dat file and telling you where to put it, but I thought you would likely really get more out of it by having to figure out how to find the commands and add them to the list in Execute Commands.
There are bunches of documents and tutorials in using Execute Commands on my website, linked to in my signature.
i think that a messages I was going to post got lost. In it I suggested you you could export your command list so you could save the commands and import them later, and you can use the plugin Run Command Macro to run the saved macro (.dat) file more conveniently that running it in Execute Commands.
If I ever have to make changes to such a set of commands, I find it easier to edit the saved macro file, rather that editing a generated macro, even though I know my way around in the plugin editor. I recommend considering the macro file to be the source file, and the generate plg file to be like the executable file in most cases.
The exception to that is when you generate a plugin and just want to use it as a "sketch" of a larger ManuScript plugin, which is often something useful to do, because a ManuScript plugin can have things like loops and if-the-else statements, which are lacking in a string of commands.
But one can still do useful things with a string of commands...
Ah, thanks very much for this. Recognition coming from you means alot. I'm now glancing through your tutorials; what a generous resource this is, to put the ability to make plugins into the hands of "normal folks."
Actually I discovered all of this by watching ilkay Bora Oder's channel which dedicated two whole videos on your Execute Commands and Run Command Macro plugins. I was so impressed that I purchased his composer/orchestrator set yesterday, and got to thinking, what else can I make with your two plugins...
In fact, I created one yesterday called "Insert Beats" which allows you to pick any point in a bar, split it, and have the time signature dialogue automatically appear so you can select how many beats you want to insert. My #1 complaint has been that Sibelius doesn't offer an "insert mode" when composing, like in word processing (when you want to insert new music in the middle of your piece, and have everything move over automatically.) Anyway, I replaced one of ilkay's Run Command Macros with my new .dat, and I'm quite happy with it. Here is a link to the .dat, if it might be useful for you. Any critique of it would be appreciated (but only if it pleases you to).
Also, I'm sure this will be covered in your tutorial, but to follow up on something you wrote: it's "easier to edit the saved macro file" (the .dat file)." What I'm seeing when I import the .dat into the "Execute Commands" plugin is that only the final version of the macro appears. Intuitively, I was expecting that importing the .dat would break up the macro back into its component steps so that I could tinker around with it, or build on it.
Anyway, you've already spent a lot of time helping me, so if you might reference the relevant part of your tutorial, I'm more than happy to read through it.
> What I'm seeing when I import the .dat into the "Execute Commands" plugin is that only the final version of the macro appears. Intuitively, I was expecting that importing the .dat would break up the macro back into its component steps so that I could tinker around with it, or build on it.
The .dat file Export File process makes a minor translation of the commands in the command list, replacing the language-dependent Command Names with command ids, so the macro could run in non-English systems.
Import File does the reverse, so except for a few minor changes, such as the plugin number for plugins, the command list should look like it did before you started.
Be sure you are using the dat file, created by Export List, and not the plg file generated by New Plugin.
The screenshot shows the command list in Execute Commands, and the.dat file generated by Export List.The .dat file can be read back into the Command List at any time. and then edited using the tools in Execute Command.
The generated plugin file is also a text file, but it is in a very different format. The routine "Process Score" contains the command list after being translated into ManuScript language commands. It is not suitable for use in Import List, but you can edit it with the Plugin Editor. Here is an example of the code in Process Score
ProcessScore "(score){
cmdutils.ExitIfSelection_NotPassage_cu('A passage selection is required. This plugin will now exit.');
cmdutils.SaveSelection_cu();
// select note following end of selection
cmdutils.ExtendSelection_Right_cu();
cmdutils.Select_Last_NoteChordRest_cu();
SplitBar.Run();
cmdutils.RestoreSelection_cu();
SplitBar.Run();
}"
If you are getting something different after running a dat file through Import List, I would be interesting in seeing what you are seeing.
Basically, I learned how to use the "Execute Commands" plugin and the "Run Command Macro" plugin in two different sittings. After creating my command list within "Execute Commands", I created a "New Plugin" from that list.
Some time later, I learned about creating .dat files for the "Run Command Macro" plugin. The problem is, instead of exporting the original command list, I exported the newly created plugin as a .dat.
Hence, importing it would result in only the final plugin being shown, instead of the original command list.
So I re-created the original command list and exported this "Insert Beats" macro as a .dat (link below):
One hiccup is that running this always gives me the message "There is something selected which is not in view" when it's done. But it's not a huge deal, so I'll live with it for now.
Also note: I created this macro after editing the "Split Bar" plugin so it uses the "Normal" bar line, and I unchecked the item that says to open the dialogue box every time. Not sure if this matters, but I mention it in case you want to use this macro yourself.
>Some time later, I learned about creating .dat files for the "Run Command Macro" plugin. The problem is, instead of exporting the original command list, I exported the newly created plugin as a .dat
That won't work.
My recommendation is to always debug the commands as a macro in Execute Commands, and use Export List from the start to create a file you can then import back into Sibelius. A macro files is simply a list of commands, which is translated from Command Names to Command Ids so it can run in multiple languages.
One you generate a plg file in New Plugin, you can no longer use that commands in Execute Command or Run Command Macro. You can edit the plg file in File>Plug-ins>Edit Plug-ins or in a text editor, but the format is totally different.
So as I mentioned before, my process, and my recommendation to anyone is to Export your list from Execute Commands,and after that you can also generate a plugin. But if you want to update the commands, I would then use Import List in Execute Commands to bring back and edit the commands, and use Export List again. In programmer terms, I treat the dat file from Export List as the source file, and any generated plugin file as comparable to an executable, which one would never edit again.
The only time I do something different is when I want to actually change the plugin file to something I can't do in Execute Commands, like check a return value from a function or add loops, or if-then-else code.
At that point, the plg file becomes my source code, and I never take it back to Execute Commands.
It is not the only way to work, but I find it to be effective.
>Also note: I created this macro after editing the "Split Bar" plugin so it uses the "Normal" bar line, and I unchecked the item that says to open the dialogue box every time. Not sure if this matters, but I mention it in case you want to use this macro yourself.
Did you actually Edit the shipping Split Bar to use those settings as defaults? If so be sure to remember what you did, especially after a Sibelius update when the shipping plugin may have changed.
If you only set the options in the Split Bar dialog, be aware that the "Show dialog" checkbox is reset at the start of the next Sibelius session, and since Split Bar does not save setting across sessions, it will always reset its dialog setting to its default settings as stored in the plg file at the start of the next session.
Also if you run Split Bar manually during a session and change the dialog settings, and later run your macro/plugin, you will find that the settings are what you last used.
This is a general problem with creating macros and plugins that call other plugins. I have tried many ways to get around this, and my current scheme is to have some "Parent" plugins specially set up to create a "command line" that stores the current dialog settings, and lets you run the Parent plugin without bringing up the dialog, but always using the settings that were in effect when you generated the command line.
Bob, once again, thanks for your incredibly detailed and thoughtful response.
>So as I mentioned before, my process, and my recommendation to anyone is to Export your list from Execute Commands,and after that you can also generate a plugin.
Yes, indeed. What was maybe not clear in my previous reply was that exporting the new plugin as the .dat was the mistake on my part, and so I remedied this by exporting the .dat from the list in Execute Commands, as you state.
>Did you actually Edit the shipping Split Bar to use those settings as defaults?
Yes, in fact, you were the one who helped me sort this out last time when I was trying to save my dialogue box settings for the Split Bar plugin for repeated use. I followed the instructions you supplied for the Edit Plugin plugin. I should definitely clarify this if I ever share my new "Insert Beats" plugin with others.
I don't recommend giving people copies of modified shipping plugins, just because it makes updates confusing. But it sounds like you have a lot of things figured out.
My apologies for the late reply. Thank you for the admonition, and I'll keep the modified plugin to myself for the time being.
In fact, I mildly regret having modified the plugin without having saved it under a new name (don't know if that's even possible). Although I'm so far not needing the dialogue box to appear, or to choose the dotted line split, I may need these in the future...but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
You can take your copy of SplitBar.plg from your user folder. Rename it, and then in an editor, change the global variable _PluginMenuName in the Data area to something matching the new file name.
The next time you close and restart Sibelius, it will be using the shipping version of the plugin and you can use your private copy separately as a plugin.
It you create a copy of a shipping plugin with the same file name and the same subfolder name as the shipping plugin, Sib will use that plugin rather than the shipping plugins. If you rename or delete your user copy, Sib will use the shipping copy.
Rather cool. The same thing happens with Manuscript Papers and House Styles too.
Sorry for the late reply; I was wading through tax forms over the last few days.
So I tried the steps that you instructed, and I'm not seeing the newly named plugin within my plugin list (I did restart Sibelius).
Attached are 3 pictures:
1. The renamed "Split Bar" plugin to "SplitBarEDITED"
2. The script where I replaced _PluginMenuName with SplitBarEDITED
3. The plugin list within Sibelius which is not showing the newly renamed plugin.
Note: I tried in the script to put the underscore _ before the new name as well, and I get this message:
Other/SplitBarEDITED::Initialize:6:Field _SplitBarEDITED not found
Ah, no. I was not clear enough. The variable name must still be _PluginMenuName. You change the VALUE (the part in double quotes) to the the menu name of your updated plugin, presumably "Split Bar EDITED".
So,in Data you will see
_PluginMenuName "Split Bar EDITED"
Also, you should not be editing plugins (or any other files) that ship with Sibelius. No not add, delete, or modify files in the shipping files folders. Your edited plugin should be in a user-editable files subfolder with the the same subfolder name as the shipping plugin.
Many thanks to you, I was able to rename the plugin, and go into the script and change the value of the _PluginMenuName. Now the newly modified plugin appears in my plugin list. As you instructed, I put it in the same subfolder as the shipping plugin.
One question: I'd like to revert the shipping plugin of Split Bar back into the original form where it opens the properties window where you can pick what kind of line you want the split to be, and also check/uncheck the box that controls whether you want the window to open in the first place. Basically, I made the mistake that you were speaking of, where I modified the shipping plugin instead of creating a newly named one - a mistake I won't make again thanks to your instructions. And now I can't get that properties window to open any more...
I've tried 2 things, and I'm having a problem with both:
1. I found this version of the plugin which was updated in 2012, and which creates new time signatures:
But I prefer the other version (the one where you can select the type of line you want as the split).
2. I tried going to File --> Plugins --> Install Plugin and searched for "Split Bar", and it doesn't show up. Only Split Bar Rests shows up (see photo).
Have I committed a sin so egregious that this is irreversible?
Split Bar is not a downloadable plugin so it is not available for installation; it ships with Sibelius.
I am not familiar with Macs, so I don't know if you can just take a copy of the shipping plugin and put it where you had changed the file. I suspect you can.
Reinstalling Sibelius should fix it for you.
--
Bob
Just wondering: would you be able/willing to upload your copy of the shipping plugin somewhere that I can download and stick into my folder?
I just feel a resistance to reinstalling Sibelius with all the many modifications that I've done over the last few months (everything's working super smoothly at the moment).
If not, it's okay, I understand. Thanks always for your help.
Screen Shot 2024-03-28 at 1.02.23 PM.png