'Plug in to find non chord tones '

Messages in this thread

Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 17 Sep 06:59PM
     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 17 Sep 07:02PM
         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 19 Sep 09:23PM
             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 19 Sep 09:30PM
                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 20 Sep 02:57PM
                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Bob Zawalich, 20 Sep 02:57PM
                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 20 Sep 03:00PM
                         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 20 Sep 07:19PM
                             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 21 Sep 07:11AM
                                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 21 Sep 08:12AM
                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 21 Sep 06:39PM
                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Patrick O'Keefe, 21 Sep 07:46PM
                                         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 22 Sep 10:32AM
                                             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 22 Sep 12:11PM
                                                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Laurence Payne, 22 Sep 01:54PM
                                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Bob Zawalich, 23 Sep 01:40AM

Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 17 Sep 06:59PM
Hi everyone
(Hi Bob)

I am so surprised that I am not able to find a plug in that I can run to highlight non chord tones.

I have:
- A few bars of seven - pitch voicings
- Chords above each voicing
- Some 'wrong' pitches (for example an Eb in a Cmajor chord)

I want:
- To highlight/color the pitches in these voicings that do not 'traditionally' fit into the chords, the non chordal pitches.

I need:
- a plug in!!! :-(

Any takers?

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 17 Sep 07:02PM
.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Kenneth Gaw - 19 Sep 09:23PM

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Kenneth Gaw - 19 Sep 09:30PM
I happen have a plugin that does this. I wrote for my high school students. It colours non chord-notes red in and non-root bass clef notes amber.
I can't attach it here, so I suggest you find me on Facebook and I'll contact you from there. There's a very useful group there called Sibelius Power Users.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 20 Sep 02:57PM
Kenneth. Thank you so much for this repsonse. Very kind. I just reached out to three Kenneth Gaw's on Facebook. Check ur messages hehe .

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 20 Sep 02:57PM
Just out of curiosity, Kenneth, how do you know which pitches are chord tones? Are you parsing the notes, as the Add Chord Symbols plugin does, or do you require chord symbols to be there? Seems like it would be straightforward once you know which notes are chord tones, but it is not clear to me how to do that.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2021+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2021.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/sibelius/
Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 20 Sep 03:00PM
If I may intercept, Bob. I thought about this as well and figured that one would possibly have to first define this. Meaning you go through every possible chord

C
Cm
C7
Cm7
Cmaj7
Cmmaj7
Cm9
Cmaj9
Cmmaj9

And then define the according pitches

C E G
C Eb G
C Eb G Bb
aso.

And then the plugin would have to read the chord symbol and compare it to the definition that is given.
I looked into making my own plugin but unfortunately it seems over my head.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Kenneth Gaw - 20 Sep 07:19PM
Hi Bob - The plugin reads the chord symbols and checks the notes against them.

Hi Ny1052 - Manuscript (the plugin language) allows you to extract a considerable amount of information from the chord symbols. (For historical reasons they are known as Guitar Frames in the documentation.) You don't normally have to make the sort of table that you described above.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Sep 07:11AM
I have:
- A few bars of seven - pitch voicings
- Chords above each voicing
- Some 'wrong' pitches (for example an Eb in a Cmajor chord)

===================================================

Quite common in some scores and lead sheets, especially those of a blues genre. Eb, often notated as a lowered 10th in a C chord is in fact harmonically a raised 9th.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 21 Sep 08:12AM (edited 21 Sep 08:13AM)
Adrian

Thanks for illuminating the nature of the #9
When I need music theory music lessons for the symphony I’m currently writing I will definitely hit you up ;)

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Sep 06:39PM
I'm sure, Ny, that you know more than I about writing symphonies ;-)
My compositions tend to be short and sweet. If they don't fit on a 78 rpm disc, I've been over-enthusiastic. No, in my previous post, I was questioning whether or not a plug-in would be able to recognize an Eb as a possible chord tone of C. Chord symbols are sometimes stripped right down to the bare basics of chord type, ignoring extensions and alterations.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 21 Sep 07:46PM

> Thanks for illuminating the nature of the #9
> When I need music theory music lessons for the symphony I’m currently writing I will definitely hit you up ;)

OK. What is the definition of a "non chord tone" in 21st century symphonic music? If you are, for instance, using quartal or quintal harmonies, or building chords using nontraditional modes you are going to have notes that do not "traditionally fit into chords" (depending on what "tradition" you are referencing).



--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, Sib 2020.12, NotePerformer, S7Sounds
Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Adrian Drover - 22 Sep 10:32AM
Quartal & Quintal harmonies may well be built from chord tones. A dom.13th chord or tonic maj.6/9 might have as many as four perfect 4th intervals if built in such a way. On the other hand, simple passing or approach chords can be full of non chord tones.

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by ny1052 - 22 Sep 12:11PM
I am very grateful for all the highly theoretical and academic discussions about what is and what is not a chord tone. While I am very well aware of the slightly problematic definition of what is and what is not considered a chord tone, I am specifically looking for a plug in that treats this issue with a more traditional approach. That is - with the example of a C chord

1: C
3: E
5: G
maj7: B
9: D
11: F
13: A
m3: Eb
b5: Gb
sharp5: Gsharp
7: Bb
b9: Db
sharp9: Dsharp
sharp11: Fsharp
b13: Ab
dim
aug
and any combination thereof.

Any chord tone that would lie outside of these very standard definitions should be highlighted with a different color so that I can decide on a case to case basis if the chord tone does apply or does not apply to my specific needs.

I also understand that this method certainly is not applicable to each and every approach in orchestration, however, I am indeed dealing with a reoccurring situation in which I do very much need such a plug in.

I hope this finally concludes the avant - garde - esque discussion about what is a chord tone and what is not and helps this discussion focus on the nature of finding or creating said plugin.

Best

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Laurence Payne - 22 Sep 01:54PM
You want all the possible flavours and extensions of a C triad to be allowed? That allows EVERYTHING (barring a few enharmonic spellings) doesn't it?

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Re: Plug in to find non chord tones
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 23 Sep 01:40AM
Assuming that in fact Chord Symbols are used to define the chord tones, a C major chord would only include C E and G, and anything else would be a non chord tone. It is more complicated if you have to calculate what the chord is, but if there are chord symbols objects to reference,this would be straightforward.

Thanks for explaining, Kenneth.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2021+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2021.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/sibelius/
Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/

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Messages in this thread

Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 17 Sep 06:59PM
     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 17 Sep 07:02PM
         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 19 Sep 09:23PM
             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 19 Sep 09:30PM
                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 20 Sep 02:57PM
                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Bob Zawalich, 20 Sep 02:57PM
                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 20 Sep 03:00PM
                         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Kenneth Gaw, 20 Sep 07:19PM
                             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 21 Sep 07:11AM
                                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 21 Sep 08:12AM
                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 21 Sep 06:39PM
                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Patrick O'Keefe, 21 Sep 07:46PM
                                         Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Adrian Drover, 22 Sep 10:32AM
                                             Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - ny1052, 22 Sep 12:11PM
                                                 Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Laurence Payne, 22 Sep 01:54PM
                                                     Re: Plug in to find non chord tones - Bob Zawalich, 23 Sep 01:40AM