Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Dec 05:50PM (edited 01 Dec 05:53PM) Hide picture Hi folks, Please see screenshot. I am trying to LOSE the tie on the first quaver of the coda, and ADD a (leading) tie to the first quaver of the last bar of letter-H (hope that makes some sense!). I have spent two hours on this which is longer than it took me to transcribe the melody and chords to this piece! I looked in the manual, on You Tube, and also tried faking it by using a 'voice 2' event, 'hiding' the tie (which unfortunately hid it in both notes), and testing out various 'ornament' notations. The closest I got was with the latter, but I did not feel it looked correct enough to be honest. btw - I do not use 'playback' and so the Coda (and all that...) are not recognised by Sib. in that way (which may affect accidental and similar). I'm totally stuck! ;-( Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here. Best, Paul David Seaman (UK) Cubase 9 / Sibelius 8.6 (2018.1) Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10, 16GB RAM, 1.70gHz, 64-bit, Intel Core i3. Attachment Tie.png (150K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Dec 05:56PM Hide picture ... Sib. file: Attachment Directions.sib (117K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Mike Lyons - 01 Dec 06:07PM Hide picture You'll have to fake both. -- Win 10 Pro x64, Sib Ultimate 2019.7(build 1580) 2.6GHz Intel Core i7 9750H, 32GB,10TB (SSD + 7200rpm HDD), Scarlett 2i4, Sib 6.2,7.5, NotePerformer and others. Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. mike@mike-lyons.co.uk Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 01 Dec 06:41PM (edited 01 Dec 07:07PM) Hide picture Are you writing just for your own band or for distribution? If you're just printing one set of parts, it might be quicker and neater to wait until they hit paper and get a pen out. If it MUST be done in Sibelius, and you're fussy about ties matching perfectly, perhaps a blanking graphic over the unwanted tie extension at the top of the page? The updated 'Ties into second ending' plugin does a pretty neat job at H. Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Dec 07:57PM (edited 01 Dec 08:45PM) Hide picture > Are you writing just for your own band or for distribution? If you're just printing one set of parts, it might be quicker and neater to wait until they hit paper and get a pen out. > > If it MUST be done in Sibelius, and you're fussy about ties matching perfectly, perhaps a blanking graphic over the unwanted tie extension at the top of the page? > > The updated 'Ties into second ending' plugin does a pretty neat job at H. Cheers Laurence, The piece (as is all others) is for my own jazz ensemble which rehearses once per month, with a view to attaining some bookings in the new year (ie. when we have enough material - as I am the only person writing the charts). I am light years away, and will probably never be asked, to distribute my music, if I am honest. I have actually met quite a few people who 'pen' things in after the post-printing. Yes, ideally I would much prefer the whole shebang be performed within Sib. By 'blanking out' do you mean using a 3rd party s/w such as Paint to carry out the task? I will check out the suggested plugin... Thanks, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Dec 07:50PM Hide picture > You'll have to fake both. Hi Mike, You mean in a 'voice 2' event or by using an appropriate 'ornament' notation, please? Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 01 Dec 08:50PM (edited 01 Dec 08:56PM) Hide picture Hi Laurence, I am totally at a loss as to what values I need to place in the 'hidden' and 'visible' notes, please? I have faffed around for 30 mins but to no joy. I've been one this chart since mid-day now and just want to at least get the rhythm section parts finished by midnight, if possible. This piece does not use 1X & 2X bars and so I am struggling to correlate my situation to Bob's PDF example. Very much appreciated, Paul Attachment Plug.png (119K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 Dec 12:41AM Hide picture Don't worry about there not being 1x and 2x bars. That's just a situation where your issue would typically arise. But not the only situation, as your score witnesses. A blanking graphic is a technique used within Sibelius. It's the equivalent of pasting a small piece of white paper over the unwanted item. A convenient way to make a blanking graphic in recent versions of Sibelius is to use a single character of text, given the colour white and given the property (in the Inspector) 'Erase background'. Size can be fine-tuned by dragging the corners of its bounding box. In your situation, I really do suggest you print without the ties, then get a pen out. Life's too short! Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 03 Dec 07:58PM (edited 04 Dec 05:56PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Bob Zawalich - 03 Dec 02:21AM (edited 03 Dec 02:27AM) Hide picture Leave the hidden and visible note positions 0. Just select the note that should get the leading tie and it should work fine. The offsets are there if you want to adjust the tie lengths, but just try the default first. See screenshot. I would think it would do just what you want. -- Bob An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2019+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2019. Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/harp-notation-in-sibelius/ Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/ Attachments snap1.png (14K), snap1.png (14K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 03 Dec 02:08PM Hide picture Bob/Laurence, That's great. Thanks a lot. I will take a look when I next get chance... Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 03 Dec 07:44PM (edited 03 Dec 07:45PM) Hide picture > Leave the hidden and visible note positions 0. Just select the note that should get the leading tie and it should work fine. The offsets are there if you want to adjust the tie lengths, but just try the default first. See screenshot. I would think it would do just what you want. Worked like a treat thanks Bob ;-) (See attach.) The mistake I made was that you need to place a 'physical' ZERO in the note-position fields. I left them empty (blank) which obviously cocked it up! I don't know if Mike would still term this procedure as 'faking it'? Paul Attachment tie_bob.png (119K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 04 Dec 05:56PM Hide picture > A blanking graphic is a technique used within Sibelius. It's the equivalent of pasting a small piece of white paper over the unwanted item. > > A convenient way to make a blanking graphic in recent versions of Sibelius is to use a single character of text, given the colour white and given the property (in the Inspector) 'Erase background'. Size can be fine-tuned by dragging the corners of its bounding box. Hi Laurence, Do you mean I should click: Stave Text / Plain Text / add a numeric or alphabetic character? I did try this a couple of times but when I open the Inspector I am not given the final steps/options you mention? This is actually a function I would really like to learn as I would use it quite a lot! Much appreciated, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 04 Dec 07:16PM Hide picture You set the colour to white in the Home tab. Erase Background is in the Inspector. Once you've made one, you can copy, move, resize... (turning on View:Handles helps). They can be placed over the staff lines, behind the notes, or brought right to the front layer on top of lines AND notes (Order, on the Appearance tab). Great fun! Attachment Annotation 2019-12-04 191217.png (42K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 04 Dec 08:37PM Hide picture > You set the colour to white in the Home tab. Erase Background is in the Inspector. Once you've made one, you can copy, move, resize... (turning on View:Handles helps). > > They can be placed over the staff lines, behind the notes, or brought right to the front layer on top of lines AND notes (Order, on the Appearance tab). Great fun! Hi Laurence, Many thanks for taking the time to advise and upload. I will test it out tonight or tomorrow. .. Cheers, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 12:42AM (edited 05 Dec 12:44AM) Hide picture Thanks Laurence, I just had a quick try but I'll have to give it another go tomorrow. I chose Special Box from Round Note-heads within Z symbols: Attachment LP_1.png (30K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 12:43AM Hide picture ... then coloured it white: Attachment LP_2.png (89K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 05 Dec 03:13PM Hide picture > Thanks Laurence, > > I just had a quick try but I'll have to give it another go tomorrow. > > I chose Special Box from Round Note-heads within Z symbols: Why did you do that? My instruction was to 'use a single character of TEXT'. Like a, b, or c. Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 03:55PM Hide picture > Why did you do that? My instruction was to 'use a single character of TEXT'. Like a, b, or c. Hi Laurence, I made a letter 'o' white, but can't see Erase Background in the Inspector? Thanks a lot, Paul Attachment White.png (102K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 05 Dec 05:14PM (edited 05 Dec 05:16PM) Hide picture > I made a letter 'o' white, but can't see Erase Background in the Inspector? > Look here... Now, if you turn on View:Handles as well, you'll find it easy to size it to fit whatever you want to hide. (You CAN do it without, but it's fiddly.) Attachment Annotation 2019-12-05 171316.png (114K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 02:27PM Hide picture > You set the colour to white in the Home tab. Erase Background is in the Inspector. Once you've made one, you can copy, move, resize... (turning on View:Handles helps). > > They can be placed over the staff lines, behind the notes, or brought right to the front layer on top of lines AND notes (Order, on the Appearance tab). Great fun! Hi Laurence, I'll be damned if I can follow the steps and get it to work. It's not your explanation but rather my own ignorance within this field! I am afraid I need a bit more of a breakdown of the steps, if possible. If it's too much of a pain in the butt then not too worry, I totally understand! Thanks a lot, Paul Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Bob Zawalich - 05 Dec 12:57AM Hide picture It is definitely still faking it. But it is an easier better fake than most I have seen. The plugin comes up with zeroes in those fields as defaults. It wants a numeric value in there, and if you turn it to blanks, the plugin will tell you it needs a number. But it does not crash or anything, it just tells you to put in a number and waits for it. -- Bob An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2019+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2019. Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/harp-notation-in-sibelius/ Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/ Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 02:13AM Hide picture > It is definitely still faking it. But it is an easier better fake than most I have seen. > > The plugin comes up with zeroes in those fields as defaults. It wants a numeric value in there, and if you turn it to blanks, the plugin will tell you it needs a number. But it does not crash or anything, it just tells you to put in a number and waits for it. Cheers for the explanation Bob. Just need to get this Erase Background malarkey boxed off next... Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:17PM (edited 05 Dec 11:21PM) Hide picture >Now, if you turn on View:Handles as well, you'll find it easy to size it to fit whatever you want to hide. (You CAN do it without, but it's fiddly.) Hi Laurence, Thanks for the breakdown and screenshot. I choose: plain staff text, then a letter, then I colour it white (home tab.), then I check the background 'erase' box (inspector) - please see attach: Attachment text_1.png (82K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 05 Dec 11:26PM Hide picture So what happens when you place it over the un-wanted tie segment? You may need to turn Magnetic Layout off for it (Select it, R-click and use the menu). Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:37PM (edited 05 Dec 11:37PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:27PM Hide picture ... BUT, when I then click on the blanked-out text (ie. to move it to exactly where it needs to be) the letter appears again!? Plus, I can't place it over anything (it won't let me drop it) and you can see in the screenshot that the images shadow becomes active: Attachment text_2.png (82K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:38PM Hide picture > So what happens when you place it over the un-wanted tie segment? > You may need to turn Magnetic Layout off for it (Select it, R-click and use the menu). It springs away when I try to place it anywhere there is any form of text/notation. I turned off magnetic-layout and there is an improvement in that I CAN position it anywhere (THANKS!): Attachment text_3.png (64K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:41PM Hide picture ... I can even place it UNDER a notation with magnetic-layout turned off. But as per screenshot the letter 'P' is is still visible! Attachment text_4.png (40K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Fake Ties (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 05 Dec 11:48PM (edited 05 Dec 11:55PM) Hide picture Hi again Laurence, Sudden progress it seems; but thru a flook of sorts I dare say. I was literally going to jack it in and go to bed having been on this, believe it or not, since 10pm tonight! Actually, four days in all, on and off. I really, quite honestly, don't know how it worked? Mag.-Layout definitely had something to do with it though. I must have made about 25 attempts tonight alone!; and then it just worked. Ghosts in the machine perhaps?; or maybe just me being a complete dork during some stage of the process! The chart is 100% completed and looks great (I mean I am satisfied totally, even if nobody else is!). Many thanks to yourself, Mike, and Bob. Best, Paul Attachment text_5.png (96K) Back to top | All threads