I am trying to notate a trill in 3/4 meter (whereby the principle-note is notated as a dotted-minim and the flatted-above-note is stemless and in parenthesis). I have always notated this way (by hand).
On page 134 in the Elaine Gould book the first example (at the foot) includes three notations of precisely what I am trying to achieve in Sib. Please also see attachment (photo of my handwritten score).
I have found threads relating to Dorico and also playback issues within Sib., but now specifically to the scenario I am describing.
As you can see in the PNG. I place a straight-diagonal line between the principle (A) and trilled-to (Bb) notes (Elaine Gould book does not though); and I write 'TR.' above (of course this would be accessed via Notations>Lines).
Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here.
It's how I have always written it for both jazz brass players and classical string players; and nobody has ever questioned it. Maybe everyone chose to keep quiet so as it would remain an in-joke about my poor musical intellectualism!
The line going to the trilled-to note is not standard notation at all, it's your personal eccentricity :) Lines like that are used in that way (between notes) for glisses.
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A composer www.markisaacs.com www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i5 7400 Quad Core Processor (3GHz-3.5GHz 6MB), 8GB RAM, 27'' monitor, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Gold (Kontakt), Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, ASIO4ALL.
I see no reason to place a line between the main note and trill note. Nor to use parentheses. They just add clutter. Regarding placement of the interval indication note, I would favour writing this in voice 3 a fraction later in time from the main note, playback killed and rests hidden, actual playback of the trill (interval & speed) regulated in the inspector.
If you want parentheses, the Pre-bend note from Keypad 2, with a suitable X-offset, is another option. Here it is, also Adrian's method (with and without parentheses).
As everyone else says, the line is unnecessary and confusing.
> I see no reason to place a line between the main note and trill note. Nor to use parentheses. They just add clutter. Regarding placement of the interval indication note, I would favour writing this in voice 3 a fraction later in time from the main note, playback killed and rests hidden, actual playback of the trill (interval & speed) regulated in the inspector.
Hi Adrian,
OK, I'll lose the 'line'. Not so sure about losing the parentheses though. I'll have to have a tweak and see...
I never use playback to be honest. I even mute the mixer permanently. I just use Sib. purely as a means to printing out my parts. And so trill interval/speed is not an issue for me.
> The line going to the trilled-to note is not standard notation at all, it's your personal eccentricity :) Lines like that are used in that way (between notes) for glisses.
Cheers Mark,
I am not sure where I got the idea from to be honest. Though I do use it (on it's own) to notate a gliss, as you mention.
It seems to work fine in voice-2; I had to greatly adjust the spacing on the x-axis though.
Page 134 in the Gould book states that the trills line should continue through to the very end of the bar. Mine ceases shortly before, or ever so slightly after (there is no in-between). Is either near enough for jazz?
Here I have a trill which commences during the final bar of a page (not showing in screen-grab); and it continues through bars 1 & 2 of the following page (as per screen-grab). It appears, after some digging/experimenting that I have 3 options (of course, you may not agree with any of these!):
1) Sib. (by default) places '(tr)' above the first note in the first bar - this is my least favourite as it is not in horizontal alignment with the principle-note, and any tweaking of the x-axis also adjusts the initial 'tr' instruction positioning.
You have TWO trill lines, one atop the other - why? The (tr) belongs to whichever trill starts first and is a continuation indicator for that line (I think it's the lower one). I don't think it's meant to be in alignment with the note as it's an indication of continuation. you can get rid of it by editing the trill line - (select the line) then Notations-->Lines-->Edit. You can untick the box or alter the position of the indication by altering it's xpos (spaces right). See image.
On your first point: Never, ever, ever drag barlines. It causes more problems than it's worth in Sibelius. There's really only one use for it and it doesn't generally happen in your idiom!
Drag the RH end of the trill line as far left or right as you need. There's a handle which sometimes appears to the right of the line end, but you can show it (to make it easier to grab) by turning on View-->Invisibles-->Handles. You can drag the end of the trill line or the tr itself as far as you like. There are no real restrictions. But do not drag barlines.
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Win 10 Pro x64, Sib Ultimate (build 1918) 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, 8GB,7TB 7200rpm HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2,7.5, NotePerformer and others.
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.
mike@mike-lyons.co.uk
Mike, if I'm not mistaken, I think Paul's screenshot is meant as an example of 3 possibilities. I think he's asking which one would we choose. In reference to Gould's suggestions in her book Behind Bars. See screenshot.
> Hi all
>
> Mike, if I'm not mistaken, I think Paul's screenshot is meant as an example of 3 possibilities. I think he's asking which one would we choose. In reference to Gould's suggestions in her book Behind Bars. See screenshot.
>
> I always use the parenthesis.
Thanks a lot Pierre,
I am going to stick with using the brackets. I tried with and without and much prefer the former.
I see what you mean about the Gould's book legend for a trill of which continues onto another page/system. I shall comment within my reply to Mike...
> Last point first:
>
> You have TWO trill lines, one atop the other - why? The (tr) belongs to whichever trill starts first and is a continuation indicator for that line (I think it's the lower one). I don't think it's meant to be in alignment with the note as it's an indication of continuation. you can get rid of it by editing the trill line - (select the line) then Notations-->Lines-->Edit. You can untick the box or alter the position of the indication by altering it's xpos (spaces right). See image.
>
> On your first point: Never, ever, ever drag barlines. It causes more problems than it's worth in Sibelius. There's really only one use for it and it doesn't generally happen in your idiom!
>
> Drag the RH end of the trill line as far left or right as you need. There's a handle which sometimes appears to the right of the line end, but you can show it (to make it easier to grab) by turning on View-->Invisibles-->Handles. You can drag the end of the trill line or the tr itself as far as you like. There are no real restrictions. But do not drag barlines.
Good evening Mike,
As Pierre pointed out, I used a single screen-grab to display all 3 options of trill notations (rather than a separate image for each scenario). Perhaps my preceding comments were not quite clear to all.
I shall follow your kind advice and refrain from dragging barlines here and there. And, as you correctly observe, I only score in a jazz vain.
My eyesight is not so great but if I enlarge the screen somewhat I can see the Handles (without going into 'Invisibles').
trill.jpg