'Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes'

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Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 29 Sep 09:11PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Robin Walker, 29 Sep 09:32PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Laurence Payne, 29 Sep 09:49PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Adrian Drover, 30 Sep 07:12AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Laurence Payne, 30 Sep 10:05AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Wim Hoogewerf, 30 Sep 12:21PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 30 Sep 07:47PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 12 Oct 01:55AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Wim Hoogewerf, 12 Oct 06:52AM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Jody Hughes, 12 Oct 07:00AM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 13 Oct 02:58AM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Jody Hughes, 13 Oct 06:53AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 13 Oct 10:54PM

Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Richard Mix - 29 Sep 09:11PM (edited 29 Sep 09:13PM)
I wonder if the forum search is broken: it seems improbable that there's never been a post with the words "unison" and "dot".

Has anyone found a way to suppress the bonus dot that appears with unisons on lined notes? The attached is unacceptable to my eye; a kludgy way to cope with it is to use an undotted 'headless' notehead, hidden rests and some futzing with the x parameter in the inspector, but one hopes for something more efficient…
Attachment Hochlandbursch, Op. 55 No. 5.sib (33K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Robin Walker - 29 Sep 09:32PM
That's fixed in version 2018.7.

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Sibelius 2018.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2018.7, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Laurence Payne - 29 Sep 09:49PM (edited 29 Sep 10:00PM)
And needs this Engraving Rule selected, to fix an existing score.
Attachment Capture.PNG.png (147K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Adrian Drover - 30 Sep 07:12AM
Probably a silly question [I'm good at that] but why, when I open Richard's score in 2018.7, does the voice position rule default to version 2? What is the accepted rule on extension dots for unisons on the line? Also, I notice that if the unison is written as an interval rather than a second voice, version 3 still produces duplicate extension dots.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Laurence Payne - 30 Sep 10:05AM
Because people complain when opening a score in a new Sibelius version changes the layout, even if the defaults in the new version ARE 'better'?
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 30 Sep 12:21PM
The workaround for Richard in earlier versions is to use Voice 3 instead of Voice 2 and manually flip the Voice 1 stems.

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MacOS 10.13.6 Sibelius Ultimate 2018.7
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Richard Mix - 30 Sep 07:47PM
Thanks Wim, that's perfect!
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Richard Mix - 12 Oct 01:55AM (edited 12 Oct 01:57AM)
A follow up and slightly different problem with a non-unison: What would be a way to deal with the alto divisi crossing and double dotting in mm 4-5?
Attachment Das Hochlandmädchen (Schumann).sib (36K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 12 Oct 06:52AM
The same kind of solution: Note Input > Voices > Swap 2 and 3. Next Reset Position, flip stems manually and adjust the horizontal position in Properties X

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MacOS 10.13.6 Sibelius Ultimate 2018.7
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Jody Hughes - 12 Oct 07:00AM
Hi there

In this case, I think it would be better to stem both the alto notes together, which resolves any issues with dots.

Hope that's useful
Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius Ultimate on a Mac running OS 10.13.4
Attachment Pic 2018-10-12 at 08.01.08.png (18K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Richard Mix - 13 Oct 02:58AM (edited 13 Oct 03:04AM)
Stemming the altos together removes information about how they divide which I find unacceptable, the obvious solution being full score.

Wim is right though! Having voice 2 on bottom seems to do the trick in both m5 & m6. One can even stack 4,3,1.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Jody Hughes - 13 Oct 06:53AM
Hi Richard

I've had a look at the source, and see that you are trying to preserve the original voice leading here. Sorry, I didn't pick that up from your earlier post.

I think you should not use short score here, even though Wim's solution makes it possible to resolve the dot problem. As currently notated, it is confusing for all sopranos and altos to sort out what to sing. In order to resolve that confusion on the page, you would need to add notation which will further clutter the page.

best wishes
Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius Ultimate on a Mac running OS 10.13.4
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes
Posted by Richard Mix - 13 Oct 10:54PM
Since in this case 5 solo voices are singing there's no ambiguity about whether the single soprano divides. I'll grant the point that five staves would be more foolproof, but with 4 verses underlaid for each voice the page just becomes too cluttered for my taste. The first edition of course prints a different stanza in each voice, which takes a bit of getting used to.
Attachment Screen Shot 2018-10-13 at 3.38.59 PM.png (204K)
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 29 Sep 09:11PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Robin Walker, 29 Sep 09:32PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Laurence Payne, 29 Sep 09:49PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Adrian Drover, 30 Sep 07:12AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Laurence Payne, 30 Sep 10:05AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Wim Hoogewerf, 30 Sep 12:21PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 30 Sep 07:47PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 12 Oct 01:55AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Wim Hoogewerf, 12 Oct 06:52AM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Jody Hughes, 12 Oct 07:00AM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 13 Oct 02:58AM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Jody Hughes, 13 Oct 06:53AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: unison dotted notes - Richard Mix, 13 Oct 10:54PM