'Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?'

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Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Broth... - John White, 07 Mar 06:04PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 07 Mar 07:15PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 08 Mar 01:26PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 08 Mar 03:37PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 09 Mar 06:29AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Tony Cliff, 10 Mar 12:24PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Peter Roos, 10 Mar 05:40PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Tony Cliff, 10 Mar 11:11PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 11 Mar 09:26PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 14 Mar 04:24PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Patrick O'Keefe, 14 Mar 05:02PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 14 Mar 09:02PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 15 Mar 08:25AM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Arild Mjaaland, 15 Mar 09:33AM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 15 Mar 09:37AM
                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - kbundies, 16 Mar 10:17AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 16 Mar 09:35PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Patrick O'Keefe, 16 Mar 10:10PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - kbundies, 16 Mar 10:50PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 16 Mar 11:25PM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 06:23AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Michael Kent-Davies, 17 Mar 10:26AM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 11:03AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 17 Mar 03:31PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 03:58PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 17 Mar 04:54PM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 06:11PM

Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by John White - 07 Mar 06:04PM
I recently purchased a Brother MFC-J6930DW Printer in the hope of being able to print out scores in A4 booklet format. However,, neither my son nor myself has managed to get it to work properly after much trying. All we seem to get is either single pages of A4 or tiny version of about A6 size. Could someone who uses a similar printer please let me know what to do to get the wished for result?
Cheers,
John.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 07 Mar 07:15PM
Whenever you are trying to use Sibelius with a multi-drawer printer, you need to ensure that, BEFORE entering the Sibelius print dialogue, the operating system default settings for the printer are configured to the settings that you wish to use within Sibelius.

Once you open the Sibelius print dialogue, it is too late, and any changes to printer settings that you make there are likely not to work.

So, if you want booklet format, make sure that the operating system default settings for that printer are configured to booklet format BEFORE using the Sibelius print dialogue.

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 08 Mar 01:26PM
Doesn't work for me, Robin. I've long since given up trying to print anything with my MFC-J5720DW. I export to pdf and print with Acrobat instead. Brings back memories of TeX...

Room for improvement in a new update?

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 08 Mar 03:37PM
> Doesn't work for me, Robin. I've long since given up trying to print anything with my MFC-J5720DW.

Please attach screen-shots of (a) the default Windows printer configuration for paper tray and paper size, that existed before launching Sibelius; and (b) the Sibelius print dialogue that did not print the way you wanted.

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 09 Mar 06:29AM
> Please attach screen-shots of (a) the default Windows printer configuration for paper tray and paper size, that existed before launching Sibelius; and (b) the Sibelius print dialogue that did not print the way you wanted.

Not worth the trouble. Been there many times, Robin, done it all before (except for posting screen shots). When I install a new version of Sibelius, I always try printing to A3 with the Brother printer. Hasn't worked for some time, not since version 6.x, if I remember rightly.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Tony Cliff - 10 Mar 12:24PM
I would recommend purchasing the brilliant print program ‘FinePrint’. You can download a demo edition from www.fineprint.com I do all my printing via this program and it will work with any printer. It is ideal for outputting scores, booklets. The more you investigate it the more you will wonder how you ever managed without it.

It is difficult to explain the brilliance of a seemingly utility-type program like FinePrint but I count it as one of the best purchases I ever made.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Peter Roos - 10 Mar 05:40PM
John:

Did you install all the drivers for this Brother printer? You shouldn't have issues printing from Sibelius if the printer operates properly in other programs (which, again, depends on whether you have the right driver).


--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Tony Cliff - 10 Mar 11:11PM
If you use FinePrint then you don't need to bother with the Sibelius booklet printing. You simply let FinePrint sort all this out for you. I do all my printing from every computer with it. You can load files from different programs into FinePrint. For example a contents page or two from Word or similar, then the score then maybe a final page from another program. All the files go into FinePrint. Then choose A3 paper size, booklet printing. If you have a collection of files which make up your final version you can also save this as a Fineprint file. This means that if you need to print the whole thing off again you can do so without needing to load Sibelius or any other program.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 11 Mar 09:26PM
Yes, FinePrint is versatile and reliable. I used to use it a lot. However, I'm paying an arm and a leg for Adobe Acrobat, and its built-in print routine does everything you're likely to need.

I'm sure all the Brother users who have contributed to this post have installed the most recent drivers, as I have. The interface is clunky, but it cooperates perfectly with all the other apps I use. I have the printer linked up via WLAN. I wonder if that might be the cause of the trouble? When I have time, I'll test it with a USB connection. Or has anyone tried that?

It's a shame, because the print quality for music is excellent.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 14 Mar 04:24PM
There was no feedback on the question of WLAN, but now I can offer my own.

I deactivated the WLAN connection and re-connected the printer via Powerline + network cable. Now everything is working as it should.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 14 Mar 05:02PM
> ...
> I deactivated the WLAN connection and re-connected the printer via Powerline + network cable. Now everything is working as it should.

So essentially it works with an Ethernet connection but not a wireless connection. That seems very odd unless the printer is configured to behave differently on the two interfaces. Do you have trouble printing from other programs via wireless?

I had considered buying that printer a couple months ago. I'm glad I didn't

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 14 Mar 09:02PM (edited 14 Mar 09:42PM)
I have to revise my previous post. It worked just once, immediately after changing the connection from WLAN to Ethernet, but all subsequent attempts have failed. I can't change between paper formats, it simply doesn't work, and booklet printing is luck-of-the-draw. Every other app on my PC communicates with the printer without hassle - MS Office, Acrobat and Lightroom, Capture One, paint.net etc. So I really can't imagine that the Brother driver is the culprit here.

Sib. 2018,1, Win10 x64 Pro, Intel i7-7700 3.6Hz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 15 Mar 08:25AM
Antony, you are preaching to the converted. We all know that there is a problem with printing from Sibelius to a multi-drawer, multi-paper size printer. It affects all brands of printer, not just Brother.

I've given you a work-around, which seems to work for everyone else.

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Arild Mjaaland - 15 Mar 09:33AM
I have tried twice with Brother A3 printers (probably stupid, but I bought a new one som time after the first one) I had contact with a technical service person from Brother (who in the end stopped answering me)without any luck. They could print from Pdf, but not from Sibelius. The description in the beginning of this thread was just what happened to me as well. I had to get rid of of them. After that I've used a Canon pro 9000 - it worked perfectly, but I had to flip papers manually when printing scores, so now I have a Hp officeJet Pro 7740 - multi-drawer, multi-paper size printer, and this workes every time - no problems.
Something about Brother?
Arild

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 15 Mar 09:37AM
Thank you, Robin. On the one hand, I'm reassured to hear that the problem doesn't apply only to Brother printers. On the other, I can't accept a workaround that involves making significant changes to default system settings. Why? Because it's too easy to overlook them when printing from other sources.

Maybe two instances of the printer driver will do the trick, one for Sibelius, the other for everything else. I'll give it a try.

If the problem is indigenous to Sibelius, I hope Avid's developers will look into it and come up with a lasting solution. The problem has been around for some time. It needs to be fixed.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by kbundies - 16 Mar 10:17AM (edited 16 Mar 02:14PM)
Antony, I use Sibelius since it came out (so probably since 20 years). I have never used Sibelius’s print dialogue. And I printed hundreds of booklets, sheets, formats.
All my scores and parts I export to Pdf.
My complete musical library is in this format.
I have had different printers and they all happily printed my Pdf files. For booklets I used Cheap Impostor for a while.
My workflow has never been hindered by the hardware or driver of a printer (I use HP, Brother and Canon and have used Epson).
--
Sibelius 2018.1 on Mac OSX 10.11.6

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 16 Mar 09:35PM
So I tried the trick with dual printer drivers and it failed.

kbundies writes that he never used the Sibelius print dialogue, but there must have been a time when he did. I've been using Sibelisu for 19 years myself, but pdf export wasn't available until rather later. The print dialogue was simpler, but it worked. I used it in tandem with HP LaserJets. Never had problems. So what's gone wrong?

Would Avid please consider providing a new printing dialogue -- soon -- that works for *every* popular brand of printer (and then some...)? Is that asking too much?

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 16 Mar 10:10PM
> Would Avid please consider providing a new printing dialogue -- soon -- that works for *every* popular brand of printer (and then some...)? Is that asking too much?
Yes, I suspect that is asking too much.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by kbundies - 16 Mar 10:50PM
> So I tried the trick with dual printer drivers and it failed.
>
> kbundies writes that he never used the Sibelius print dialogue, but there must have been a time when he did. I've been using Sibelisu for 19 years myself, but pdf export wasn't available until rather later. The print dialogue was simpler, but it worked. I used it in tandem with HP LaserJets. Never had problems. So what's gone wrong?
>
Antony, I bought a Mac as my first computer in 1996 and since then stayed with it. Part of the macOS is that Pdf is basically built into the operating system. If you can print something, you can save it as Pdf instead. Very, very convenient.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 16 Mar 11:25PM
> So I tried the trick with dual printer drivers and it failed.

Please describe EXACTLY what you tried.

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 17 Mar 06:23AM (edited 17 Mar 06:24AM)
Robin,
For the sake of clarity, I deleted the old driver (again), reinstalled it and set the "Printing default" to paper size A3 (screenshot #1). Then rebooted (just in case).

So: I open a score in A3 format in Sibelius and call up the print dialogue. "Fit to paper" not selected, no value for "scale" chosen. Sibelius thinks I'm printing on A4 paper (screenshot #2). So I open "Page setup" and set it manually to A3 (screenshot #3). Note that the edges of the paper are cut off (the page number at the top should be inside the frame, at the bottom of the page should be a footer with the publisher's plate number). Having done all that, I select "Print". The Brother printer brings up a dialogue asking about page format, asks if I really want "Letter" size. I select A3 instead, then press "Print" on the printer. Out comes a page of A4 (!) with an incomplete page number and the footer cut off.
Attachments Printing defaults.png (247K), No fit to paper.png (151K), Fit to paper.png (167K)

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Michael Kent-Davies - 17 Mar 10:26AM
Is there no "use OS dialog" option at the bottom in Windows Sibelius?

--
Music Teacher etc.
Mac OS 10.12 / 3.1 GHz MacBookPro 1TB SSD
Sibelius 2018.x

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 17 Mar 11:03AM
Unfortunately not. But it could be made to work. In the Windows version of Chrome, for instance, Ctrl+Shift+P circumvents Chrome's internal print routine and brings up the standard Windows print dialogue. That would do the job, if not for booklet printing etc. Furst, however, it would have to be enabled in Sibelius.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Mar 03:31PM
> reinstalled it and set the "Printing default" to paper size A3 (screenshot #1).

Rather than going into "Printing Default" from the device driver pages, could you check the settings by right-clicking on the printer object in "Devices and Printers", and selecting "Printing Preferences"? Does it say "A3" there?

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 17 Mar 03:58PM
If I change the default setting for paper size, the "Printing Preferences" dialogue does indeed confirm "A3".

However, if I open an A3-size document in Sibelius and go to "Page setup" in the printer dialogue, the setting is still "A4". OK, so I change the setting by hand and select Tray 2 as output, to be sure that the appropriate paper is used. But no matter what I do, it's impossible to print full-size A3. What I'm getting - if anything - is a reduction to A4, as in a spread or a booklet, even though the dialogue is set to "print the pages out unscaled".

I've tried A3 boarderless, even Ledger and Monarch, but none of these work, in fact the preview screen remains blank when those sizes are selected. In a word, the Sibelius "Page setup" dialogue is not communicating correctly with the printer.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Mar 04:54PM (edited 17 Mar 04:56PM)
> if I open an A3-size document in Sibelius and go to "Page setup" in the printer dialogue, the setting is still "A4".

That should not be happening if the printer default is "A3": the whole point of setting the printer default is that Sibelius "Page Setup" should say "A3" on first entry.

> But no matter what I do, it's impossible to print full-size A3.

That's correct: once the Sibelius print dialogue is open, it is too late to change the paper size or drawer: such changes simply will not stick.

The required trick is previously to set the printer defaults so that Sibelius "Page Setup" says "A3" on first entry, so that no changes are required.

I don't know why that is not working for you.

Does it help if you pre-define in printer defaults the correct Paper Source for A3, rather than leaving it as "Auto"?

--
Sibelius 2018.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Brother A3 prnters?
Posted by Antony Beaumont - 17 Mar 06:11PM
> That should not be happening if the printer default is "A3": the whole point of setting the printer default is that Sibelius "Page Setup" should say "A3" on first entry.

Of course it shouldn't be happening. But it is. And there's nothing wrong with my hardware or my Windows installation.

> Does it help if you pre-define in printer defaults the correct Paper Source for A3, rather than leaving it as "Auto"?

Yes and no. It does indeed cause the printer to print on A3 paper, but the image that comes out is still A4 size (landscape, filling half the page).

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with Broth... - John White, 07 Mar 06:04PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 07 Mar 07:15PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 08 Mar 01:26PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 08 Mar 03:37PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 09 Mar 06:29AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Tony Cliff, 10 Mar 12:24PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Peter Roos, 10 Mar 05:40PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Tony Cliff, 10 Mar 11:11PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 11 Mar 09:26PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 14 Mar 04:24PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Patrick O'Keefe, 14 Mar 05:02PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 14 Mar 09:02PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 15 Mar 08:25AM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Arild Mjaaland, 15 Mar 09:33AM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 15 Mar 09:37AM
                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - kbundies, 16 Mar 10:17AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 16 Mar 09:35PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Patrick O'Keefe, 16 Mar 10:10PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - kbundies, 16 Mar 10:50PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 16 Mar 11:25PM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 06:23AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Michael Kent-Davies, 17 Mar 10:26AM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 11:03AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 17 Mar 03:31PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 03:58PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Robin Walker, 17 Mar 04:54PM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Is Sibelius incompatible with B... - Antony Beaumont, 17 Mar 06:11PM