'Lute tab stems '

Messages in this thread

Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 20 Feb 02:04AM
     Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 07:10AM
         Re: Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 21 Feb 08:21AM
             Re: Lute tab stems - James, 21 Feb 03:35PM
                 Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 04:27PM
                     Re: Lute tab stems - James, 21 Feb 05:23PM
                         Re: Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 21 Feb 07:42PM
                             Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 09:30PM

Lute tab stems
Posted by jhgarrison - 20 Feb 02:04AM (edited 20 Feb 08:25PM)
In French/English lute tab, the stems used depart from standard notation as follows:

Whole Note - short diagonal flag on left of stem
Half Note - stem with no flag
Quarter - Short diagonal flag on right of stem, never beamed
Eighth - Two short diagonal flags, beamed
Sixteenth, etc - Three flags, etc, 32nds rarely used

The attached image shows output from Fronimo, a lute notation program well-known and used in lute circles, and shows what the stems should look like with regard to flags for French/English tab.

Sibelius doesn't understand this and wants to apply standard notation stems. This results in the following:

Whole Note - No stem
Half Note - Stem with no flags
Quarter - Stem with no flags, identical to half

This is rather ambiguous as only the spacing gives a clue to the note duration, and the spacing can vary significantly depending on what's in other lines, especially lyrics.

There doesn't seem to be a way to specify alternate stems for tab.

Is there a hidden trick I can use to get the stems/flags right on lute tab?
Attachment sib006.png (25K)
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 Feb 07:10AM

I am not aware of any way you can do this in Sibelius. Fronimo sounds like it might be a good option.
--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2018.
For plugin lookup and categories see https://www.nycmusicservices.com/musicresources
For manual plugin installation see http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by jhgarrison - 21 Feb 08:21AM
I already own a copy of Fronimo, but it is intended mostly for lute tab. Even though it can typeset notation it is quite limited in that regard.

I was hoping to be able to use Sibelius to integrate lute tab into some multi-part arrangements of early music I'm working on, but with the incorrect stems and ambiguity in note durations this won't work at all.

Since Sibelius includes a number of lutes in its instrument catalog but it's not possible to successfully notate tab, one could call this a bug. I've submitted a bug report on IdeaScale
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by James - 21 Feb 03:35PM
What about exporting the durational signs from Fronimo and importing them into Sib, and then using them as symbols?

http://www.rpmseattle.com/of_note/expanded-graphics-import-and-export-in-sibelius-7/



--
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra
Sibelius 6.2
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 Feb 04:27PM

You could certainly create symbols in Sib 7 and later and drag them over each Tab stem but that would be very labor intensive and painful to update. You would also have to hide beams.

Still it might be possible, which is a starting point. I can’t really imagine Sib implementing these stems but one can always ask.
--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2018.
For plugin lookup and categories see https://www.nycmusicservices.com/musicresources
For manual plugin installation see http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by James - 21 Feb 05:23PM
If you do create symbols of these signs, you might use the plugin Add Circled Note Symbols To Notes to rapidly add these symbols into your score.

--
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra
Sibelius 6.2
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by jhgarrison - 21 Feb 07:42PM
Well, all the options look way too labor-intensive. I guess I'll just continue using Fronimo.
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Re: Lute tab stems
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 Feb 09:30PM (edited 21 Feb 10:00PM)
Add Circled Note Symbols is indeed set up to insert any symbol, and you can set up multiple set of symbols with different positioning, so it could be a fairly effective way to place some symbols.

The problem here is similar to someyhing I did in a plugin called Circle TAB Half and whole notes. (see screenshot). In that case we wanted to draw circles or ellipses around half notes and whole notes in TAB staves.

So I built a bunch of symbols to fit various numbers of notes and various numbers of digits, and the plugin finds suitable notes and positions a symbol around them.

It has the kinds of problems I described - the circles can get out of position, and if notes change you have to adjust the symbol or rerun the plugin. There is a lot of setup and you need to write a plugin, but it is probably doable.

In the case of some notes, like the 8th, you would probably need to use a stemless note and add a symbol that includes the flag; for beamed notes you would likely need to draw lines for the beams; if you could use the current beams then you could position an additional beam line below the current beam. If not, you could hide the stems and do all the beams as lines.

So it would indeed be a lot of work, but it might well be possible.


--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2018.
For plugin lookup and categories see https://www.nycmusicservices.com/musicresources
For manual plugin installation see http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
Attachments snap1.png (105K), snap1.png (105K)
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Messages in this thread

Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 20 Feb 02:04AM
     Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 07:10AM
         Re: Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 21 Feb 08:21AM
             Re: Lute tab stems - James, 21 Feb 03:35PM
                 Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 04:27PM
                     Re: Lute tab stems - James, 21 Feb 05:23PM
                         Re: Lute tab stems - jhgarrison, 21 Feb 07:42PM
                             Re: Lute tab stems - Bob Zawalich, 21 Feb 09:30PM