'An interesting interview'

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An interesting interview - Nicholas Freestone, 09 Jan 10:10PM
     Re: An interesting interview - Bob Zawalich, 09 Jan 11:19PM
         Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 10 Jan 12:25AM
             Re: An interesting interview - Laurence Payne, 10 Jan 10:22AM
             Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 10 Jan 10:47AM
                 Re: An interesting interview - Chris Crawley, 10 Jan 12:56PM
                     Re: An interesting interview - James, 10 Jan 06:08PM
                         Re: An interesting interview - Laurence Payne, 10 Jan 06:21PM
                             Re: An interesting interview - Philip R, 10 Jan 10:03PM
                                 Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 11 Jan 12:42AM
                                     Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 11 Jan 08:58AM
                                         Re: An interesting interview - Tony Wakefield, 11 Jan 11:59AM
                                             Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 12 Jan 01:14AM
                                                 Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 12 Jan 07:54AM
                             Re: An interesting interview - Patrick O'Keefe, 13 Jan 08:08PM
                                 Re: An interesting interview - dom.pothier, 14 Jan 09:32PM

An interesting interview
Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 09 Jan 10:10PM
I hope that the 'powers that be' allow this post to stand, as I think this interview given by Daniel Spreadbury would be of interest to members here, as much of it discusses Sibelius (rather than his new product).

A lot of time in the interview is given to how he started with the company, how it expanded, life under Avid and some discussion of the UI design of the ribbon.

It's well worth giving up a couple of hours of your time to it, if you have any interest at all in software design or the history of Sibelius.

https://robby-burns.squarespace.com/robbyburnsandfriends/dorico-featuring-daniel-spreadbury-season-3-episode-2

--
Mac Mini, OS X 10.12.6, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 8.7.2 & 7.5.1

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 09 Jan 11:19PM
Daniel both was, and is, the man!

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2018.
For plugin lookup and categories see http://www.nycmusicservices.com/musicresources
For manual plugin installation see http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Peter Roos - 10 Jan 12:25AM
Cool - thanks for posting.

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jan 10:22AM (edited 10 Jan 10:56AM)
The interviewer wasn't very good at his job. He had trouble coming out with a clear sentence, and failed to structure the session so that it didn't HAVE to be two hours long.

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 Jan 10:47AM
Daniel always found the time to connect with the users and listen to their grievances. He and his team were able to mend breakages in upgrades in double quick time and able to provide alternatives for those users who didn't like a certain change. I never liked the ribbon with all its bloated galleries, but at least much of the old menu system is still available by right clicking.

It was a sorry day when Avid sacked the London team. We still have breakages that were made several versions ago. No one from Avid regularly monitors this forum and listen to its users' needs. I don't bother to regularly upgrade now for fear of more breakages. I now have 8.6 but still need to use 7.1.3 (Daniel's final upgrade) for hassle-free writing and editing. That certainly doesn't seem like progress to me.

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Chris Crawley - 10 Jan 12:56PM (edited 10 Jan 01:16PM)
It's probably pointless to dwell yet again on grievances that have been aired pretty thoroughly in the past, but I agree almost totally with Adrian. I too use 7.1.3 and have no plans to upgrade.

However, people from Avid do look at this forum and certainly do respond to problems with registration, upgrading and so on, though I realise that is not what Adrian had in mind.

The bright side of all this is that Daniel's current project is likely to eclipse Sibelius - probably fairly soon now. It wouldn't have happened if the old team had remained in place. Though I'm sure Sibelius would have been developed in a much better way than has since happened, I also believe that the code of the program is outdated and seriously limited (or so I have been told - by an insider), so sooner or later it would have had to be re-written from the ground up. In effect, a new program was needed. Would Avid have supported this? In view of their cavalier attitude towards the development of the program, I somehow doubt it. Steinberg had the foresight and resources to make it happen.

So at least we can thank Avid for something.

--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Dorico 1.2, Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer 2.0.2, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7, 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by James - 10 Jan 06:08PM (edited 10 Jan 06:10PM)
Great to hear Daniel's voice. I mean, how can you not love this guy? He's so forthright and winsome.

When he talks about the importance of refactoring modules of software and not allowing them to ossify, you have to wonder if that is an area of neglect by Sibelius' current minders. When he talks about the importance of knowing every detail of construction in a giant cathedral in an analogy to software coders knowledge, well, again you have to wonder...

Of course, he still defends the ribbon, and in my view he still misunderstands its problems. It's not that I love menus and submenus. It's that the ribbon wastes valuable screen space with useless icons and convoluted organization. It can be hidden but then has to be shown when needed. Yes, there is a natural workflow to notation. You don't do layout after inputing a couple of notes because you will be re-doing it and will have wasted your time. But you often do backtrack in the natural workflow and shouldn't be straightjacketed. Anyway, the ribbon dead horse has been beaten and beaten.

I wish him well. Perhaps someday we will all jump ship. But so far, not quite yet.

--
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra
Sibelius 6.2

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jan 06:21PM
The arguments justifing various GUI decisions in both programs seemed somewhat contradictory :-)

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Philip R - 10 Jan 10:03PM
For additional context and history, you might be interested in my interview with Ben Finn in 2015:

https://www.scoringnotes.com/news/an-interview-with-ben-finn-part-1/
https://www.scoringnotes.com/news/an-interview-with-ben-finn-part-2/

--
Sibelius 8.7.2, Mac 10.12.6
Mac Pro (Late 2013) 32 GB RAM
https://www.nycmusicservices.com/
http://www.scoringnotes.com/

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Peter Roos - 11 Jan 12:42AM
I listened to the entire interview last night, and parts of it again, today. Very interesting, and it provides great insight into the minset of the development team over time. If you are interested in music notation software development, this is a must listen-to.

Aside from the bad history involving Avid back in 2012 (with the infamous "reorganizations"), there's also a lot of positives. I have said this before, and I'll say it again: the restart of Daniel and his team at Dorico turned out to be a blessing in disguise, for they had the opportunity to start with a completely clean slate, while learning from past mistakes, and taking advantage of modern day software development techniques.

For users it's a win-win.



--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Adrian Drover - 11 Jan 08:58AM
But the biggest leap forward in computer music engraving still was the contribution Johnathan & Ben Finn made in Cambridge England back in the twentieth century. I wish Daniel, his team, Steinberg and Dorico every success in their venture, but I fear that I'm past my sell-by date for learning new tricks. I sometimes wish we'd stayed with paper and pencil. Working all night, we always delivered in time for the 10am recording session. No thousand page user manual necessary.

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 11 Jan 11:59AM
Hear, hear, Adrian, I once spent two days and two nights on the trot, with hot soup to try to keep us awake through both nights aboard Silvia Talbot`s barge on the Thames at Twickenham Bridge.
Don`t know what happened to Sylvia, I think she got fed up with the boat and moved abroad when her husband died, but this must be 30 years ago now. She may have joined him by now.
I was ill for a fortnight after that episode.

--
Sibelius 6/7/8. Win7. Note Performer, with various other no longer in use programs & audio.
Web:http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Peter Roos - 12 Jan 01:14AM
Here's to you Adrian and Tony. Cheers ;-)

https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Jan 07:54AM (edited 12 Jan 08:14AM)
Ee-bah-gum, lad, it were tough in't them days, but ther's nowt wrong wi' Yorkshire.

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 13 Jan 08:08PM
> The arguments justifing various GUI decisions in both programs seemed somewhat contradictory :-)
>
And certainly didn't address the oft mentioned complaint of not being able to eliminate the space-hogging icons in the ribbon.

I agree with your earlier comment about the interviewer. Daniel is the far better speaker. Too bad the interviewer had to be there at all.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: An interesting interview
Posted by dom.pothier - 14 Jan 09:32PM
I miss Daniel Spreadbury (“Daniel at Sibelius”) tremendously.

--
Frankie Uno
uses Sibelius Version 8.4.2
uses OS X El Capitan
MacBookPro 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory 16GB

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Messages in this thread

An interesting interview - Nicholas Freestone, 09 Jan 10:10PM
     Re: An interesting interview - Bob Zawalich, 09 Jan 11:19PM
         Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 10 Jan 12:25AM
             Re: An interesting interview - Laurence Payne, 10 Jan 10:22AM
             Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 10 Jan 10:47AM
                 Re: An interesting interview - Chris Crawley, 10 Jan 12:56PM
                     Re: An interesting interview - James, 10 Jan 06:08PM
                         Re: An interesting interview - Laurence Payne, 10 Jan 06:21PM
                             Re: An interesting interview - Philip R, 10 Jan 10:03PM
                                 Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 11 Jan 12:42AM
                                     Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 11 Jan 08:58AM
                                         Re: An interesting interview - Tony Wakefield, 11 Jan 11:59AM
                                             Re: An interesting interview - Peter Roos, 12 Jan 01:14AM
                                                 Re: An interesting interview - Adrian Drover, 12 Jan 07:54AM
                             Re: An interesting interview - Patrick O'Keefe, 13 Jan 08:08PM
                                 Re: An interesting interview - dom.pothier, 14 Jan 09:32PM