'Note input delay while recording'

Messages in this thread

Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 04:56PM
     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 05:29PM
         Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 05:50PM
             Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 06:34PM
                 Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 07:05PM
                     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 07:26PM
                         Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 07:46PM
                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 08:40PM
                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Andy G, 08 Dec 08:43PM
                                 Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 08:44PM
                                     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 10:50PM
                                         Re: Note input delay while recording - peterquantick, 23 Mar 03:57PM
                                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Robin Walker, 23 Mar 04:09PM

Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 04:56PM (edited 08 Dec 05:18PM)
Hello everyone,

I recently bought a brand new Audio Interface (Steinberg UR22 mk2) because I was hoping to get rid of the awful input delay from my keyboard while recording.

The keyboard is connected to the Steinberg interface through a MIDI cable.

Unfortunately, after deactivating the "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" as the active playback device and activating my Steinberg in its place, I'm not getting any sound at all.

Help?

My keyboard is the Yamaha CLP-535, I'm on Windows 10.

Grateful for any responses!!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Laurence Payne - 08 Dec 05:29PM
Your Audio Engine Options need to select the UR22 and its ASIO driver as audio output device. Your Playback Configuration needs to be set to Sibelius 7 Sounds. (Have you installed them?)

The keyboard tells Sibelius what notes you're playing. The Playback Configuration tells Sibelius what will make the sounds. The Audio Engine Options define what device will output them. You will need to have an amplifier and speakers connected to the audio outputs of the UR22 in order to hear them.
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 05:50PM (edited 08 Dec 05:52PM)
I haven't indeed installed Sibelius 7 Sounds as far as I know. I did do all the rest, so I guess I'll try that.

Or rather, I don't actually have speakers, but I do have my headphones directly connected to my audio interface so I assume that works too?

Thank you!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 06:34PM (edited 08 Dec 06:35PM)
Ok so I still didn't finish the Sibelius 7 sound download BUT this is what I found out:

1) When I connect the midi cable from the "OUT" port of my Keyboard to the "IN" port of my audio interface -> Sibelius recognizes my keyboard as an input device but I get no sound from Sibelius if the audio interface is selected as the playback device.

2) When I connect the midi cable from the "IN" port of my Keyboard to the "OUT" port of the audio interface -> Sibelius doesn't recognize my keyboard as input device anymore BUT I do hear sounds when I select the audio interface as the playback device.

Does this mean I need 2 midi cables?! Sorry if this is a really rookie mistake, I'm not a tech person.
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 07:05PM (edited 08 Dec 07:07PM)
Ok, so I got it to work and this is how in case someone is having the same problem.

1) Connected my Keyboard through USB directly to my computer, so that Sibelius recognizes it as the input device.

2) Connected the Audio Interface to my keyboard by plugging the midi cable in the "OUT" port of the Interface and in the "IN" port of the keyboard.

3) Now in the input device you have the option to select your audio interface or your keyboard as the input device. Make sure the one selected is the keyboard.

4) Enjoy your absolutely delay free experience while recording with sibelius!


The only thing that's annoying is that the sound is really low and therefore you can barely hear the metronome, but you CAN still hear it.
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Laurence Payne - 08 Dec 07:26PM (edited 08 Dec 07:30PM)
Er...no. You haven't quite got it right yet! Try doing what I said.

(Or, what the heck! If you're getting notes onto paper in a way that satisfies you, leave it alone. But I suspect the UR22 isn'tr actually doing anything...)
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 07:46PM (edited 08 Dec 07:46PM)
I can't quite explain it myself, but connecting the keyboard directly to the computer without anything else gives me a ridiculous output delay which renders the recording function absolutely useless, whereas doing it the way I just explained, gives me absolutely 0 delay.

As I said, the only thing bugging me is that the sound coming out of my headphones, even if with literally 0 delay, is very very soft which some times makes it hard to hear the metronome.

Is it a known issue? Any workaround?

Thanks!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 08:40PM (edited 08 Dec 08:43PM)
Ok, last reply from me because now I'm 10000000% sure I got it right:


You were absolutely correct Sir. The sound card wasn't doing anything lol

So, basically everything you said was right: download sound pack and select it for the playback sounds; choose keyboard as input device (after connecting it to computer); chose the Steinberg ASIO drivers in the audio-engine settings.

Bottom line is, no midi cable is needed for my setup, that's where some of the confusion came from.
What was happening was that since my keyboard was connected to the sound card through MIDI and the sound card was selected as the Playback Configuration, Sibelius was in fact using my keyboard's speakers as the output device. Which explains why the sound was so soft since I had my headphones on and the master volume on my keyboard was very low.

LOL

Thank you so much for your help kind Sir and sorry for being dumb!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Andy G - 08 Dec 08:43PM
It seems that all you have done is use the CLP as the sound source and as it's a hardware device, there is no latency. You're not really using the UR22 for what it's meant to do - ie act as a high quality, low latency AUDIO interface.

I also strongly suggest that you download and install the Sibelius Sounds and use those. The UR22, using ASIO drivers, will let you get down to very low latency figures. You will only need the USB cable from the piano to the computer. Sibelius's sounds will be routed through the UR22 and into your headphones - and you will be able to hear the metronome properly.

If you have any problems doing this, just tell us and we'll guide you.

--
PC: Q6700@3.2GHz,4GB RAM.Win 7. M-Audio 2496 + Terratec DMX6Fire USB. Sib 6.2 and 7.1.3. Web: www.andrew-gilbert.com
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Nelson - 08 Dec 08:44PM
You are 100% correct Andy.

That's exactly what was happening.

Got it right now, thanks so much!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Laurence Payne - 08 Dec 10:50PM
Problem solved? Good!
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by peterquantick - 23 Mar 03:57PM
I have also tried using a Steinberg UR22 and had no benefit from it. Is the consensus that you need an external audio sound card? Miditech have been recommended because the UR22 is not doing the job.
I've tried installing asio4all but it crashes sibelius when i try to use it.
Pretty disappointing really.
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Re: Note input delay while recording
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Mar 04:09PM
> I have also tried using a Steinberg UR22 and had no benefit from it.

> I've tried installing asio4all but it crashes sibelius when i try to use it.

The rules for minimising latency when using real-time keyboard input:

1. Do not use Playback Configuration "General MIDI (Basic)" at all, or indeed any playback configuration involving the player device "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth".

And that's about it. If you use a decent VST player (such as Sibelius Player) you will get vastly improved performance over "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth".

At a less obvious level, you will get smaller latency issues with cheap audio hardware such as the on-board "Realtek HD Audio". Any outboard audio interface would do better than an internal Realtek.

To a certain extent, you can mitigate the poor Realtek performance with ASIO4ALL. But, if you say it crashes Sibelius, that is an indicator that you were trying to use "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" as the player device, since that MIDI player is incompatible with any ASIO interface.

--
Sibelius 2020.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.
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Messages in this thread

Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 04:56PM
     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 05:29PM
         Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 05:50PM
             Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 06:34PM
                 Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 07:05PM
                     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 07:26PM
                         Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 07:46PM
                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 08:40PM
                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Andy G, 08 Dec 08:43PM
                                 Re: Note input delay while recording - Nelson, 08 Dec 08:44PM
                                     Re: Note input delay while recording - Laurence Payne, 08 Dec 10:50PM
                                         Re: Note input delay while recording - peterquantick, 23 Mar 03:57PM
                                             Re: Note input delay while recording - Robin Walker, 23 Mar 04:09PM