'Status of the UI development'

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Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 01 Dec 11:42AM
     Re: Status of the UI development - James, 01 Dec 07:26PM
         Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 01 Dec 11:17PM
             Re: Status of the UI development - Bob Zawalich, 01 Dec 11:25PM
                 Re: Status of the UI development - Laurence Payne, 02 Dec 12:34AM
                     Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 02 Dec 01:13AM
                         Re: Status of the UI development - Mark Isaacs, 02 Dec 07:28AM
                             Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 03 Dec 01:18PM

Status of the UI development
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 01 Dec 11:42AM (edited 01 Dec 03:31PM)
Hi,

From time to time, I check the price for the current version of Sibelius, planning to purchase it. But then, the childish icons in the ribbon, and the huge amount of space wasted by the ribbon, the dead menu and the status bar, make me hold back, and wait for a better time.

I know in the past there have been promises of a revision, but I've not seen anything in this area. Is there hope for some new directions, either with the return of a standard Mac user interface, or even just a text-only ribbon, and a real fullscreen mode on the Mac?

Paolo

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by James - 01 Dec 07:26PM (edited 01 Dec 07:28PM)
Most people get used to the ribbon by working around it: they hide it as much as they can, they learn shortcuts, and they right click in blank areas to get some of the old menus.

I, on the other hand, still use Sib 6.2, the last pre-ribbon version, because I can't stand the ribbon even with those workarounds.

Sib development, post Daniel and team, only seems to be able to achieve small, incremental changes with each release. This is likely due to budget constraints on development, as well as the difficulty of modifying an enormous, complex code base. Eliminating the ribbon, or having the options of both a ribbon-free interface and a ribbon interface, would be a gigantic modification. Good luck waiting for that.

--
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra
Sibelius 6.2

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 01 Dec 11:17PM (edited 01 Dec 11:18PM)
James, I feel you, like me, feel hopeless.

Learning shortcuts is not the solution: I use shortcuts everywhere. Menus are just place where to go when you don't remember where that arcane feature sits hidden.

The problem is that the user interface is really obstrusive. You teach yourself to love the finest art, the most elegant touches, and end up having to look at the worst designed icons, the worst matched colors while trying to compose art music. You look for a Zen-like state of mind, and are forced to listen to the ugly dissonance of cartoonish strong colors, rough clipart-like images.

It is a shame that such a pure, powerful, originally well conceived composing and professional tool has been reduced to a sort of home-office tool, a place where beginners can touch the approximate icon of an orchestra conductor to set the tempo. I even wonder how can the younger users, in the age of the iPhones, understand that that roughly square pic was once called a floppy disk, and was used to save your work.

Sorry for ranting. I'm just very disconsolate. With not too much wish to go with Finale, the only remaining choice at this time.

Paolo

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 01 Dec 11:25PM
You might also look into Dorico or MuseScore, the latter having the advantage of being free.

You can minimize the Ribbon so that is only shows up when you activate it. They made a big deal of retaining the old shortcuts as much as they could when they introduced the Ribbon.

Personally I like the Ribbon fine and I always find it harder to get at things when I have to work in Sib 6, but I totally understand not liking it. I would guess that the likelihood of it going away is pretty much nil.


--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2017.
For plugin lookup and categories see http://www.nycmusicservices.com/musicresources
For manual plugin installation see http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
Attachment snap1.png (19K)

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Laurence Payne - 02 Dec 12:34AM
Well, if you know your shortcuts and alternative menus, the Ribbon can be closed with this button. (attached screenshot).

When the Microsoft Office programs went Ribbon-crazy, this sort of thing quickly appeared.

http://www.officeclassicmenu.com/en/download.html

It's not inconceivable that someone could develop a similar thing for Sibelius.

And didn't the Office Ribbom mature into something rather less brash and annoying? Trouble is, Sibelius never got past Ribbon 0.8 :-) And don't START me on the Print dialogues...

Attachment Capture.PNG.png (14K)

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 02 Dec 01:13AM (edited 03 Dec 04:13PM)
Bob, thank you very much for your hints. Sibelius is a joy to you also thanks to your excellent work on it.

As for Dorico and MuseScore: the first one is not ready, and the second one is not yet as detailed as I would need. Then, I can't say that its user interface, from an aesthetic point of view, is really a joy.

With Dorico, I've also some issues with the software house. I've two Steinberg products (an audio interface and an eLicenser), and while I like the Yamaha hardware of the first, I deeply hate the software coming with them. Just in this moment, the eLicenser is giving me an error message.

Laurence, while you can close the Ribbon, the purple File alarm always stays on. There is no way to turn it off, to make is stay silent. The Ribbon in Office is still awful, but at least they have silenced that alarm, and removed so much of the childish 3D effects, and started using more abstract icons. Not a joy, but at least a bit less messy and less hurting.

Paolo

Attachment office-ribbon.png (45K)

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 02 Dec 07:28AM (edited 02 Dec 08:56AM)
>>You teach yourself to love the finest art, the most elegant touches, and end up having to look at the worst designed icons, the worst matched colors while trying to compose art music. You look for a Zen-like state of mind, and are forced to listen to the ugly dissonance of cartoonish strong colors, rough clipart-like images.

Absolutely perfectly expressed for me, Paolo Tramannoni !

I am still with Sibelius 6.2, because of the Ribbon, and Full Screen not being available from Sibelius 7 on.

I want Virtual Manuscript Paper!

I'll never buy or use a program what won't allow me to hide every single "panel", no matter how narrow, and, other than migrating to Finale, Sibelius 6.2 is it for now!

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
www.facebook.com/markisaacsmusic
Sibelius 6.2.0 build 88, Sibelius 5.2.5 build 37, Bob Zawalich plugins, Windows 32-bit Vista SP1, Intel quad CPU Q9450 2.66Ghz, 3GB RAM, 27'' monitor, M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Sounds, Garritan Personal Orchestra 3, Garritan Authorised Steinway.

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Re: Status of the UI development
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 03 Dec 01:18PM
Mark, you nailed it. "Virtual Manuscript Paper". This was what reviewers praised in the first incarnation of Sibelius: not being a window in a computer, but virtual paper. Sibelius 6.2 is still that. I feel Sibelius 8 could be not too far from it, if only this was perceived as something important for (at least some) composers.

Paolo

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Messages in this thread

Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 01 Dec 11:42AM
     Re: Status of the UI development - James, 01 Dec 07:26PM
         Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 01 Dec 11:17PM
             Re: Status of the UI development - Bob Zawalich, 01 Dec 11:25PM
                 Re: Status of the UI development - Laurence Payne, 02 Dec 12:34AM
                     Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 02 Dec 01:13AM
                         Re: Status of the UI development - Mark Isaacs, 02 Dec 07:28AM
                             Re: Status of the UI development - Paolo Tramannoni, 03 Dec 01:18PM