'Exporting & Printing problem with symbols'

Messages in this thread

Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:02AM
     Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:08AM
         Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:13AM
             Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:28AM
                 Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:34AM
                     Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:40AM
                         Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 12:21PM
                             Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 12:52PM

Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by ap1987 - 01 Dec 11:02AM
Hi there,

I have a problem with exporting to PDF and printing from Sibelius 8.4.

When I export to PDF, the dashed fake-barlines disappear + the symbol which indicates bar-splitting is exchanged to a 16th flag.

When I use PDF Creator to convert to PDF via printing, the symbols are there, but positioned lower than they should be.

The only thing which works fine is exporting to BMP or TIFF, but they are not vector-graphical files...

How can I fix this problem? I've attached some files to demonstrate the problem.

Thanks in advance,
Peter Andorka

PS: Please don't write me to stop using these kind of symbols 'cause musicans would be fine without these. I work for publishers as an engraver, and these things don't depend on my own taste. Also the normal dashed barline is out of option, because in the score I'm working on at the moment there are dashed barlines only on some places in individual staves. Any suggestions?
Attachment exporting_n_printing_problems.sib (39K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by ap1987 - 01 Dec 11:08AM
Here are the exporting/printing results
Attachment exporting_n_printing_problems.jpg (202K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by Robin Walker - 01 Dec 11:13AM
On which version of Windows is this happening?

Does the score depend on special fonts beyond those of a normal Sibelius installation?

--
Sibelius 8.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by Robin Walker - 01 Dec 11:28AM
When I open the score you attached above, no dashed barlines appear at all. On investigation, it appears that the score uses a modified version of "Opus Std", which has been altered to include a symbol for a dashed barline.

So, no-one is able to help you with this problem, because we do not have access to that modified font.

It's possible that the problem arises because the altered glyph in the font does not comply in some way with what Sibelius expects its fonts to contain (e.g. font metrics).

--
Sibelius 8.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by Robin Walker - 01 Dec 11:34AM
Why do you not use a custom dashed vertical Line for your dashed barline, rather than a Symbol?

--
Sibelius 8.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by ap1987 - 01 Dec 11:40AM
Thanks for the replies.

I haven't modified any fonts, I even don't have a software for that. BUT! Earlier I've found out that Sibelius adds glyphs from Finale's Maestro font to the empty places in the symbol-list. (Strange, but true.) Maybe, this also comes from maestro. But it doesn't affect really the problem. If it's on the screen properly, why is it problematic to print or export it to PDF?

Dashed vertical line: if I use a symbol, than it's surely always the same size. For me it seems easier to just put a symbol there than alway resizing a line. But it could be solved by copying and pasting it. I'll try, especially if we can't find a solution for proper exporting/printing.

I use Windows 10 Professional 64 bit.

Best,
Peter

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by Robin Walker - 01 Dec 12:21PM
> Earlier I've found out that Sibelius adds glyphs from Finale's Maestro font
> to the empty places in the symbol-list. (Strange, but true.)

I also have the Maestro fonts loaded, but my Sibelius is not adding Maestro glyphs to Opus.

> Maybe, this also comes from maestro.

The codepoint (decimal 241, hexadecimal F1) used by this score is indeed a dashed barline in Finale-compatible fonts.

> If it's on the screen properly, why is it problematic to print or export it to PDF?

It appears that your operating system is performing glyph substitution behind Sibelius's back for on-screen display rendering of glyphs that do not exist in the chosen font (Opus Std in this case). The operating system glyph substitution is displaying the glyph from that codepoint in some other random font installed in the system. Since Sibelius has no idea that this substitution is occurring, then Sibelius is behaving correctly in producing nothing at all, or some different glyph, when that symbol is exported to PDF using the built-in PDF-export feature of Sibelius. The PDF-export from Sibelius gives a more accurate impression of the score than the screen display, because the PDF-export is not subject to interference from operating-system glyph substitution.

The behaviour of third-party PDF-generators is entirely the responsibility of the vendors of those utilities, and they will have their own rules for dealing with non-existent glyphs in fonts: this is not a Sibelius issue.

All your problems with Symbols can be simply solved by NOT using symbols that do not exist in the chosen font. In this case, neither the dotted-barline symbol, nor the system-separator symbol, exist in Opus Std.

What you see in Sibelius PDF-export is CORRECT.

What you see on the Sibelius screen is INCORRECT and the result of Windows glyph substitution, about which Sibelius is unaware and has no control over.

What you see from 3rd-party PDF generators is unpredictable and subject to their own internal design in handling missing glyphs: not a Sibelius responsibility, and again something of which Sibelius is unaware and has no control over.

--
Sibelius 8.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols
Posted by ap1987 - 01 Dec 12:52PM
Robin,

thanks for the detailed answer. The mechanism is clear now. The most interesting in this is the font-mixing thing. It worked the same way in Windows 7 & Windows 10 and also on my laptop. The order was always installing Sibelius, then Finale 2011 after. (That's the last Finale I've used before I changed to Sibelius 7.) So maybe the Finale installation affects the Opus font itself, or I don't know. Really strange...

Back to top | All threads
 

Quick reply

To add a reply to the end of this thread, type it below, then click Reply.

(.sib, .png and .jpg only)

Messages in this thread

Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:02AM
     Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:08AM
         Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:13AM
             Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:28AM
                 Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 11:34AM
                     Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 11:40AM
                         Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - Robin Walker, 01 Dec 12:21PM
                             Re: Exporting & Printing problem with symbols - ap1987, 01 Dec 12:52PM