RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 17 Jul 10:17PM Hide picture Hi folks, I would like to write the term ‘Rubato’ for a section of a piece, please. I have always called this an ‘Italian Term’ but I am unsure what it falls under within Sibelius speak? It is not listed as this in the manual or ribbon. (Please see screenshot.) I did notice some ready-made terms within a drop-down-list (eg. ‘Sempre’) and wondered if there is a larger list which includes a greater selection? Or do you choose ‘Expression Text’ and type the term in yourself? I just want to make sure I am taking the correct approach so that I can maintain consistency throughout my arrangements. And while I am here, does - by any chance - Sibelius recognize/reflect such terms during 'playback'? Not sure if that would be asking too much of it? Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here. Best, Paul David Seaman (UK) Fender Rhodes Suitcase / Fender Rhodes Stage / Mini Moog Model D / Multi Moog / Hohner E7 Clavinet / Yamaha DX7 (Mk1) & DX21 / Roland Juno 6 / Roland XV5050 (module). Cubase 9 / Sibelius 8.6 Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10, 16GB RAM, 1.70gHz, 64-bit, Intel Core i3. Attachment Text.png (69K) Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Jul 11:07PM (edited 17 Jul 11:09PM) Hide picture Type it in yourself. Many terms are recognized by playback, and you can define more. See the Playback Dictionary. But it's hard to see how 'Rubato' could be effectively interpreted. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 12:34AM (edited 18 Jul 12:36AM) Hide picture Hi, Fair enough with Rubato. I have placed fermatas' over the chords and it sounds like Sibelius is honouring these - so I can at least get a rough idea of what it might sound like. So will 'Expression' text fit the bill? I will check out the Dictionary' tomorrow. Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 12:34AM (edited 18 Jul 12:36AM) Hide picture duplicate. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Bob Porter - 18 Jul 12:44AM Hide picture Paul, You can use the Inspector to define a hold. You can set it's length and the gap after it. -- Bob Porter Sibelius 7.5.1,W10, i5,16gb ram, 250GB SSD, 500 HDD, home built, works anyway. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 12:50AM Hide picture > You can use the Inspector to define a hold. You can set it's length and the gap after it. Hi Bob, OK, thanks. You mean the amount of time it hovers on a fermata? Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Steven Edis - 18 Jul 09:19AM Hide picture Hi Paul Expression text is a staff style so (a) it will appear in one staff only, unless you actually write it into several staves (b) it can't (as far as I know) be programmed by the playback dictionary to affect playback tempo. I would think the best style to do what you want is 'Tempo text' which is a system text and can affect playback. As Laurence says, interpreting 'rubato' is something it would struggle with. Steve Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Chris Crawley - 18 Jul 09:56AM Hide picture On the other hand, "Performance" includes a Rubato setting. Not what was asked, I realise, but that seems the only way one would actually get rubato in playback - but that would be for the whole score. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Dorico 1.1, Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer 2.0.2, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7, 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by James - 18 Jul 01:53PM Hide picture "Mama mia!" (Italian term to use when Sib doesn't do what it's supposed to.) -- Mac OS 10.12 Sierra Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 02:41PM Hide picture Steven, I use copy&paste alongside the appropriate ‘Filter’ parameter. That way I can paste them into all of the required parts in once single hit. So, I just write them in the Trumpet part and then paste them into to Sax and Trombone, etc. Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 02:41PM Hide picture Hi Chris, ‘Rubato’ is not essential during playback, to be honest. If Sib. did perform it then it would be something on an icing on the cake. Thanks Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Rob Tuley - 18 Jul 04:29PM (edited 18 Jul 04:30PM) Hide picture If the word "rubato" switches on one of the options in the (so called) "expressivo" options for Sib performance, you will probably get something you didn't expect - and not anything very musical, since it just seems to insert random lurches in tempo at arbitrary places. (But hey, I know some live musicians who also do that without apparently knowing they can't keep time, so maybe it's actually "realistic" playback !!) You can delete the word from the playback dictionary if it does something you don't like. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Bob Porter - 18 Jul 05:27PM Hide picture Paul, Regarding fermata playback. By default, Sibelius plays a note with a fermata over it at %100 of it's value. I.E. a quarter note gets 2 beats. If you want it to playback longer (duh), you have to tell Sibelius how long. Just like a conductor tells an orchestra. Select the note with the fermata, hit (on a PC) CTRL+SHIFT+I, check "Fermata", enter a % value ( for example 175). If you want a pause after the fermata, enter a percentage. Experiment with different numbers. You can use the Inspector to define RIT. and ACCEL. also. None of which is a concern to a real group, but it might help you decide if you like what you are writing. -- Bob Porter Sibelius 7.5.1,W10, i5,16gb ram, 250GB SSD, 500 HDD, home built, works anyway. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Bob Porter - 18 Jul 06:26PM Hide picture Doh! Half note gets 2 beats. -- Bob Porter Sibelius 7.5.1,W10, i5,16gb ram, 250GB SSD, 500 HDD, home built, works anyway. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 09:14PM Hide picture > Regarding fermata playback. By default, Sibelius plays a note with a fermata over it at %100 of it's value. I.E. a quarter note gets 2 beats. If you want it to playback longer (duh), you have to tell Sibelius how long. Just like a conductor tells an orchestra. Cheers Bob, That's very interesting and helpful. I will have an experiment with that. Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 18 Jul 09:11PM (edited 18 Jul 09:11PM) Hide picture >(But hey, I know some live musicians who also do that without apparently knowing they can't keep time, so maybe it's actually "realistic" playback !!) Hi Rob, When that happens most musicians just blame the MD - which is probably why I only get booked as a sideman these days! Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 19 Jul 03:09PM (edited 19 Jul 03:12PM) Hide picture > Regarding fermata playback. By default, Sibelius plays a note with a fermata over it at %100 of it's value. I.E. a quarter note gets 2 beats. If you want it to playback longer (duh), you have to tell Sibelius how long. Bob, For it to make a noticeable difference (to the fermata length) I had to make the value "200" (ie. double). Will Sibelius remember this setting because there was no option (please see screenshot) to SAVE or APPLY? Or is checking the box and changing the value enough on it's own please? Thanks, Paul Attachment pause.png (423K) Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Mike Lyons - 19 Jul 03:28PM Hide picture I think these fermata settings apply on an individual basis. They will be remembered for each individual fermata next time you open the score, but if you are asking is it a global setting, the answer is no. -- Win 10 Pro x64, 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, 8GB,7TB 7200rpm HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2,7.5, 8.5 NotePerformer, Miroslav Phil, Harmony Asst, GPO4 & 5, COMB2, EWQLSO Plat, EWQLSC, Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 19 Jul 03:38PM Hide picture > I think these fermata settings apply on an individual basis. They will be remembered for each individual fermata next time you open the score, but if you are asking is it a global setting, the answer is no. Mike, That's what I meant also, is it 'global'. I am very pleased it it not! Thanks. Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 19 Jul 03:35PM (edited 19 Jul 03:36PM) Hide picture >I would think the best style to do what you want is 'Tempo text' which is a system text and can affect playback. As Laurence says, interpreting 'rubato' is something it would struggle with. Hi Steve, While Tempo-Text looks good and does affect 'playback' (which is very handy), I am concerned that it does not match the other notices (written in 'Plain System') on my scores which relate to Tempo/Feel. (please see screenshots.) I think if I wrote the instructions of the second screenshot using the same font as in the first (screenshot) then it would look too heavy? Cheers. Attachments tempo1.png (325K), tempo2.png (124K) Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Steven Edis - 19 Jul 04:36PM Hide picture Well you just need to check that 'Plain System' affects playback like you want it to. It may well do. But if not, then either fiddle with the playback dictionary (I've never done this myself, don't know how easy it is) or create a new text style based on Tempo (whose effect on playback *is* what you want) and change the font size etc to taste. Steve Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 19 Jul 04:45PM Hide picture > Well you just need to check that 'Plain System' affects playback like you want it to. It may well do. Hi Steve, I don't think it does because I think I tried it last week. But I will have another go. Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Mike Lyons - 20 Jul 08:56AM (edited 20 Jul 08:57AM) Hide picture If you are putting tempo instructions, doesn't it make sense to put them in a tempo text style? If you don't like the way it looks, change it in text->styles. Cluttering up your pages with different types of text all doing the same basic function can be very confusing and counterproductive. -- Win 10 Pro x64, 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, 8GB,7TB 7200rpm HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2,7.5, 8.5 NotePerformer, Miroslav Phil, Harmony Asst, GPO4 & 5, COMB2, EWQLSO Plat, EWQLSC, Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Attachment text style editing.png (165K) Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 20 Jul 03:08PM Hide picture > If you are putting tempo instructions, doesn't it make sense to put them in a tempo text style? If you don't like the way it looks, change it in text->styles. Cluttering up your pages with different types of text all doing the same basic function can be very confusing and counterproductive. Mike, I will try and use your ‘text>styles’ suggestion. Thanks a lot for taking the time to include the screenshot! Paul Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 26 Dec 06:57PM (edited 26 Dec 07:00PM) Hide picture Hi guys, The following question is actually not regarding an Italian term but I am posting here so as to avoid creating a new thread (moderators feel free to relocate/remove). Please see screenshot. I am arranging a piece in which two 'pedal points' occur. Rather than write slash-chords every time they occur I would like to state: "D-pedal thru letter D" and "E-pedal thru letter E". I have seen this type of instruction, abbreviation, call it what you will in 'jazz' charts over the years. My question is in relation to the specific definition, as the performer would interpret it, of the word 'thru'. Does "...thru letter D" encompass all of letter-D, or only to the end of the final bar of letter-C, please? In other words "...thru letter-D" would only apply up to the end of letter-C, and not to the very end of letter-D. I would have thought that "thru" meant: all the way thru to the end of the rehearsal-letter stated in the instruction. I hope I have explained myself clearly here as it's a but tricky avoiding making it sound over complicated! Cheers, Paul Attachment Thru.png (164K) Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by Adrian Drover - 26 Dec 11:56PM Hide picture I've always understood, Paul, that "thru'" (or "through") means "up to & including". Back to top | All threads

RE: Italian Terms (help?) Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 27 Dec 06:15PM Hide picture > I've always understood, Paul, that "thru'" (or "through") means "up to & including". Cheers Adrian, Thanks for clearing that up. I think I was getting brain-fagged over it. Yes, I think you are correct here, which means my latest Wayne Shorter chart can go to print now..., finally! Paul Back to top | All threads