I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob E - 23 May 09:59AM Hide picture I can understand that I would not get 'upgrades' and new features unless I pay for an 'annual support plan'... but, is it true that there's no way to get a fix, or patch, to fix errors and bugs that exist in the program? Any info on this? Thanks, Bob Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Robin Walker - 23 May 10:18AM Hide picture Correct. The only bug-fixes ever issued are incorporated in new sub-versions of the whole application. There are no such things as "patches". -- Sibelius 8.5.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Cause - 23 May 01:19PM (edited 23 May 02:56PM) Hide picture That's correct. When Avid sells defective software, they charge the customer for their own (Avid's) mistakes. Bug fixes always come with new bugs. Round and round and round we spin with feet of lead and wings of tin. -- Cause Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Laurence Payne - 23 May 01:29PM Hide picture Like maintaining a marriage. There are irritations, and nothing's going to basically change. But the aggrevation of divorce and marrying the attractive young mistress would be considerable. And can she actually cook? Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Michael Kent-Davies - 23 May 02:10PM Hide picture Isn't that the au pair's job? -- Music Teacher etc. Mac OS 10.12 Sibelius 8.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by James - 23 May 04:07PM Hide picture > Like maintaining a marriage. There are irritations, and nothing's going to basically change. But the aggrevation of divorce and marrying the attractive young mistress would be considerable. And can she actually cook? Well, she is kind of a-DOR-able. -- Mac OS 10.12 Sierra Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 23 May 03:05PM Hide picture > I can understand that I would not get 'upgrades' and new features unless I pay for an 'annual support plan'... > No, you won't get that either. You won't get anything. Nothing. Zilch. Oh wait, you get something.... You get to contribute to the "Golden Parachute" fund for the CEO, CFO and 6-7 VPs who will bail after they squeeze every last buck out of the company. So, that's nice. You can drive by their summer homes on Martha's Vineyard and say "Hey, my money that was supposed to get me new features bought this place, cool!" And you get a call center of people who literally don't know what Sibelius is, reading ridiculous questions off of a script, so there's that as well. Maybe in the future, Avid can send customers a T-Shirt saying "I bought Avid upgrades and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"! That would at least be an improvement over the big "nothing" one gets now. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by James - 23 May 04:04PM Hide picture >I can't get any fixes unless I pay yearly payments? You think you have problems. I pay yearly payments and I still don't get any fixes! -- Mac OS 10.12 Sierra Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Jeff Hale - 23 May 04:50PM Hide picture Actually, they've skipped the middle man and started providing new bugs directly with each release, so you're spending so much effort trying to work around the new ones that you ignore the old ones. -- windows 7 and 10 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3 and 8.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob E - 25 May 04:09AM Hide picture What a joke. I own Finale 25 and also Notion 6. Both of these programs will fix, and update their bugs. (as well as add new features). I don't have any yearly payment plans with them. I paid $599 for Sibelius 8. They won't issue fixes for their eff-ups? I can't think of any other software that I own that doesn't allow a customer to get bug fixes. Is this the same treatment I'd receive if I purchase Pro Tools, or other Avid products? Thanks for great customer service. wtf? Bob Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Peter Roos - 25 May 05:05AM Hide picture > What a joke. I own Finale 25 and also Notion 6. Both of these programs will fix, and update their bugs. (as well as add new features). I don't have any yearly payment plans with them. > > I paid $599 for Sibelius 8. They won't issue fixes for their eff-ups? > > I can't think of any other software that I own that doesn't allow a customer to get bug fixes. > > Is this the same treatment I'd receive if I purchase Pro Tools, or other Avid products? > > Thanks for great customer service. wtf? > Bob Please - everyone - don't get carried away. Did you indeed pay $599 for Sibelius? That should entitle you for free upgrades until the next major version comes out. I paid $599 back in 2007, and got a full license for Sibelius which I have to date. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob Morabito - 25 May 05:44AM (edited 25 May 05:47AM) Hide picture >Please - everyone - don't get carried away. Did you indeed pay $599 for Sibelius? That should entitle you for free upgrades until the next major version comes out. I paid $599 back in 2007, and got a full license for Sibelius which I have to date. -- Pls see http://www.avid.com/sibelius/how-to-buy and attachment. That hefty $599 price tag provides the following: Buy $599 Own the world’s best-selling notation tool and get: Sibelius 8 perpetual license and software All Access Upgrade and Support plan (first year included; renewable annually for $89/year) So for one year you get Sib 8 and any Sib 8 updates released IF there are any released, after which you pay $89 a year, each year to stay current-- and if you miss a year,I believe it will then cost you $599 to start again. And I dont think ANYONE is getting carried away at all Peter--people are angry and dissatisfied with Sib and AVID, and they ALL have a right to be. For subscribing, they were promised a new update about every two months, and no one expected the releases to be so buggy..and now there arent any releases for a long while. It actually is a shame and sad to see Sib as it is now and how it was. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Dorico 1.0.30 Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Attachment Screen Shot 2017-05-25 at 1.25.46 AM.png (25K) Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 25 May 07:05AM (edited 25 May 07:16AM) Hide picture For once, I have to agree with Bob M. ;-) Sib development is in total chaos. So far, all I have gained for my first year's subscription is an upgrade to 8.5.1 which I can't use because it doesn't work. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Chris Crawley - 25 May 07:38AM Hide picture We're all waiting for the next release of Sibelius, which seems long overdue. It will be crucial to people's perception of where the program is going. Will it be an exciting development with all bugs removed and some really useful new features? If it's not then Sibelius is dead in the water. Bets, anyone? -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by LeoP - 25 May 07:43AM Hide picture My subscription ends in 3 weeks... Still thinking about prolongation of the update plan. Use sibelius since version 4. But somehow I am an optimist and do think that after half a year after the last patch with 8.5.1 in January Avid will release an update in the next couple of weeks... -- Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.5.1, 8.5, Photoscore Ultimate 7 and 8, Acrobat Pro... Win 10 Pro 64 bit, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 25 May 07:56AM Hide picture Meet the post-London team of Sib programmers. Attachment SibCare.JPG.jpg (103K) Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Francesco - 25 May 09:45AM Hide picture Adrian, this is really too much! I'm a programmer, I know what does it mean to cope with million lines of code! I'm with the programmers. SHAME on avid, who fired the knowledgeable ones! -- Francesco --- Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22 Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Rob Tuley - 25 May 10:04AM (edited 25 May 10:05AM) Hide picture > Adrian, this is really too much! Nothing wrong with the picture IMO. There's a good reason why the lowest life-forms in the computing industry are called "code monkeys". The reason they make "million-line projects" is because that's what you get when you type random questions into Google, throw the answers at a wall, and hope enough of them stick to solve the problem. It takes skill to fix problems by writing *less* code, not more! -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 25 May 11:49AM Hide picture Posted by Francesco - 25 May 09:45 Adrian, this is really too much! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No it isn't, Francesco, except that I might be insulting the chimps. The London team knew how to fix the new bugs that often happened in updates. The current team obviously don't, else they would have been fixed by now. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Francesco - 25 May 12:15PM (edited 25 May 12:17PM) Hide picture >Nothing wrong with the picture IMO. >No it isn't, Francesco, except that I might be insulting the chimps. OK, I assume you are better programmers as I am... -- Francesco --- Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22 Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 25 May 12:26PM Hide picture > > > Did you indeed pay $599 for Sibelius? That should entitle you for free upgrades until the next major version comes out. > As Bob M. stated above, this simply is not true. Avid lied to ts customers about updates, they said they would put out frequent updates and they lied. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. Nobody has tried to refute this because they can't. Nobody has tried to fix the lie. We paid for frequent updates in advance, Avid took our money and said "screw you" and that's that. Terrible company with morally bankrupt leadership. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Andrew Ling - 25 May 02:21PM Hide picture > As Bob M. stated above, this simply is not true. Avid lied to ts customers about updates, they said they would put out frequent updates and they lied. One way Avid could try and "fix" this is by offering renewals for free until we get some frequent updates with less bugs and more features. Did anyone see those pigs going past the window? Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Chris Crawley - 25 May 02:26PM Hide picture "Avid lied to ts customers about updates, they said they would put out frequent updates and they lied. This is not an opinion, it is a fact." In fairness, David, I doubt that there is an absolute meaning to the word "frequent" - it's conveniently vague. It's pretty much impossible to prove Avid lied about that. Maybe it was deliberately misleading, maybe not. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob Morabito - 25 May 03:07PM Hide picture >In fairness, David, I doubt that there is an absolute meaning to the word "frequent" - it's conveniently vague. It's pretty much impossible to prove Avid lied about that. Maybe it was deliberately misleading, maybe not. > For information regarding this pls see this post: http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=712345&groupid=3&words=&name=Morabito#712418 Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Dorico 1.0.30 Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Robert Enns - 25 May 03:16PM Hide picture "Thanks Bob" Who is this Bob you are thanking? If this is a closing, then it needs a comma after thanks or a new line. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.5.1 Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer 2, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob Morabito - 25 May 03:29PM Hide picture >"Thanks Bob" Who is this Bob you are thanking? If this is a closing, then it needs a comma after thanks or a new line. -- Kind of self explanatory-sorry you had a hard time understanding-- I am the one saying thank you. Thanks Robert Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Dorico 1.0.30 Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Laurence Payne - 25 May 04:29PM Hide picture >"Thanks Bob" Who is this Bob you are thanking? We like to close all messages here with an acknowlegement to the ace plugin author Bob Zawalich, one of the greatest benefactors of the Sibelius community. Thanks, Bob! :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Mike Lyons - 25 May 04:52PM Hide picture > >"Thanks Bob" > Who is this Bob you are thanking? > > We like to close all messages here with an acknowlegement to the ace plugin author Bob Zawalich, one of the greatest benefactors of the Sibelius community. > > Thanks, Bob! > > :-) +1 -- Win 10 Pro x64, 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, 8GB,7TB 7200rpm HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2,7.5, 8.5 NotePerformer, Miroslav Phil, Harmony Asst, GPO4 & 5, COMB2, EWQLSO Plat, EWQLSC, Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 25 May 03:40PM Hide picture > In fairness, David, I doubt that there is an absolute meaning to the word "frequent" - it's conveniently vague. It's pretty much impossible to prove Avid lied about that. > > Maybe it was deliberately misleading, maybe not. > > -- It's been in writing many times, "every few months", "every 2-3 months" etc. Avid lied. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob Morabito - 25 May 03:55PM (edited 25 May 03:57PM) Hide picture >It's been in writing many times, "every few months", "every 2-3 months" etc. Avid lied. I provided a link above to a post regrading this--heres the text from that post: --- Pls see the following concerning updates/upgrades: http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/namm-2017-talking-sibelius-with-sam-butler/ “We used to release upgrades and new features every two years, and we’re now releasing new features every few months,” Sam said in a post on Avid’s official blog from October 2016. “The goal is to continue to release the larger features every few months, but also release smaller fixes when they are ready—saving users from waiting for an important fix.” (The official AVID blog that contains this quote can be found here : http://www.avidblogs.com/sibelius-a-look-ahead/ ) http://www.avid.com/campaigns/sibelius-8-upgrade "without the software getting in the way. And we continue to do so through a steady stream of updates and upgrades." http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=676885&groupid=3&&guest=1#676885 "When will we see new features? The next version of Sibelius will be released later in this quarter (i.e. before July). We'll the continue to release new features and functionality regularly after this. http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/sibelius-8-4-released/ "In time it would not be surprising to see more regular updates to Scorch released in tandem with Sibelius updates. Sibelius product designer Joe Pearson hinted as much recently when he said, “In terms of future development, you can expect to see much more regular updates as we go forward.” http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/next-sibelius-release/ "Avid plans to move away from version numbers with Sibelius and instead offer more frequent releases," "Avid also says that future Sibelius upgrades will be more closely integrated with Sibelius Cloud Publishing, other products on the Avid MediaCentral Platform, and the Avid Marketplace community, although specific details were not available at this time." And in regard to this, below are the list of the dates of all the Sib 8 releases I could find: Sibelius 8 June 18 2015 / Sibelius 8.0.1 September 29, 2015 Sibelius 8.1 January 21, 2016 / Sibelius 8.1.1 February 8, 2016 Sibelius 8.2 Mar 31, 2016 Sibelius 8.3 May 5, 2016 Sibelius 8.4 Jun 27, 2016 / Sibelius 8.4.1 Jun 30, 2016 / Sibelius 8.4.2 Aug 24, 2016 Sibelius 8.5 Dec 1, 2016 / Sibelius 8.5.1 Jan 19, 2017 Major updates: Sib 8 to 8.1 7 months Sib 8.1 to 8.2 2 months Sib 8.2 to 8.3 1.1 months Sib 8.3 to 8.4 1.7 months Sib 8.4 to 8.5 5 months and while the updates that came very close together--the 3 middle ones might have been only to get people to subscribe by the end of the announced year (June/July) , they are the most regular stream of updates there and what a lot of people expected to continue per AVIDS sayso (pls see above) when subscribing. Also it should be taken into consideration the large amount of bugs, and questionable new features. It seems each new release breaks something it then has to fix in the next update. --- Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Dorico 1.0.30 Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Chris Crawley - 25 May 04:18PM (edited 25 May 04:31PM) Hide picture Thanks for the timeline, Bob - very informative. Also the quotations regarding the planned frequency of releases. While we could continue to argue about what Avid intended to deliver, and whether there was a deliberate deception, what is clear is that Avid has failed to develop Sibelius in any significant and useful way since the subscription scheme was introduced and a new version is now well overdue. Which is why I have said above and elsewhere that everything now hangs on what happens next. A really good new version in the near future would be a relief; even better if it was followed quickly by further useful updates. But my gut feeling is that it won't happen. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 25 May 04:22PM Hide picture I just got an email reminder that I need to renew or miss out on: 1. All of the new exciting Sibelius features coming in the months ahead 2. Critical updates that deliver better performance and improvements 3. Expert support and advice to help you stay at the top of your game I think I missed out on those over the past year, too. However, I foolishly believe that the feeble support available from Avid is slightly better than no support at all so I probably will pay for one more year. I really don't believe that there will be anything better from Avid during the next year, but I'm willing to be surprised. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 25 May 04:13PM Hide picture Posted by Francesco - 25 May 12:15 (edited 25 May 12:17) OK, I assume you are better programmers as I am... And why would you assume that, Frank? I'm just an arranger-composer who is not at all happy with Avid's maintenance (and destruction) of the software that used to be handled with loving care. Are you working for Avid? The 8.5.1 update that I paid dearly for, is so bad that I'm still having to do all my work on 7.1.3. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Francesco - 25 May 05:23PM Hide picture Posted by Adrian 25 May 16:13 Are you working for Avid? No, no! But I know what does it mean to work with millions lines of code that you have not developed. Every if, every switch, every ++i can (and often do!) hide a forest. I think that you are addressing your right anger to the wrong people. -- Francesco --- Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22 Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 25 May 05:32PM Hide picture . > > I think that you are addressing your right anger to the wrong people. > > -- There's nobody else to address. The CEO doesn't respond to emails. Customer Support seems to be a call center with people reading off a script. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 25 May 05:31PM Hide picture > Posted by Francesco - 25 May 12:15 (edited 25 May 12:17) > OK, I assume you are better programmers as I am... > > And why would you assume that, Frank? I'm just an arranger-composer who is not at all happy with Avid's maintenance (and destruction) of the software that used to be handled with loving care. Are you working for Avid? The 8.5.1 update that I paid dearly for, is so bad that I'm still having to do all my work on 7.1.3. I don't see anything in Francesco's comments that indicate any support for Avid. He clearly stated that he thinks Avid was at fault in getting rid of the knowledgeable programming team. I suspect that Avid far underestimated the value of that team and of the difficulty (impossibility!) of finding replacements that could take over without an enormous disruption in productivity. While equating the new programming team with a bunch of chimpanzees may be a bit unfair, I suspect Avid wrongly assumed the work could be be done by a bunch of monkeys. We have no idea whether the functions in Sibelius being performed by a million lines of code actually *require* a million lines of code. Nor do we know the quality of the documentation describing those million lines of code. What we do know is that a million lines of code has to be immensely complex (whether out of necessity or sloppy coding) and no team of new programmers and developers take over without huge problems. Unfortunately, Avid's decision to sack the Sibelius team shot Sibelius and its users in the collective foot. It's doubtful that any team that Avid puts together is going to become productive enough to save Sibelius. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Laurence Payne - 25 May 05:15PM Hide picture > "Avid lied to ts customers about updates, they said they would put out frequent updates and they lied. This is not an opinion, it is a fact." > > In fairness, David, I doubt that there is an absolute meaning to the word "frequent" - it's conveniently vague. It's pretty much impossible to prove Avid lied about that. > > Maybe it was deliberately misleading, maybe not. I think we learnt long ago that semantic analysis of Avid (or anyone else's really) press releases is futile? Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by James - 25 May 06:22PM Hide picture Francesco's point is well taken, which is that it is a programmer's nightmare to inherit an enormous code base that is complicated, poorly documented, with subtle dependencies. This is called spaghetti code. It is not uncommon for code to get so large and complicated that no one understands it and it cannot be maintained. Now we don't know and will never know what Sib's code looks like. It's somewhere between crystal clear and a total mess. I hope it's on the left side of that spectrum. But there's really no way to know. On the other hand, Adrian's visual and followup had me laughing out loud. Even if it was a little mean. My subscription is nearly up, too. I confess I'm thinking, "Fool me once..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM -- Mac OS 10.12 Sierra Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Peter Roos - 26 May 01:08AM Hide picture I'm getting tired of threads like these ... folks, if you think that Sibelius sucks, and that Avid is robbing you, JUST STOP USING THE PRODUCT. And stop paying money to Avid. Go to Finale, Dorico, Overture, Notion, MuseScore, whatever. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 26 May 01:17AM Hide picture > I'm getting tired of threads like these ... folks, if you think that Sibelius sucks, and that Avid is robbing you, JUST STOP USING THE PRODUCT. And stop paying money to Avid. > So..... we've been ripped off, without a doubt, and you're tired of it? What exactly are you tired of? Avid lying? Avid's terrible business practices? Because that's what everybody else in the farking thread is tired of. Do you work for Avid or something?? Wait, I'll take that back as nobody at Avid seems to actually work. Regardless: We paid money, we got ripped off. Your cheerleading seems absurd. Maybe it's you who needs to exit these threads, did you ever think about that? Everybody in the thread seems to be in agreement that Avid is screwing up, so maybe you should take the hike. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 26 May 06:48AM (edited 26 May 07:20AM) Hide picture I've been using Sibelius since its birth with Jonathan & Ben Finn's fantastic creation of Sibelius 7 for Acorn. I followed it to Windows and have bought or contributed to every upgrade because up until 7.1.3 it was the best music setting program in the world. For nearly a year I have had a copy of 8.5.1 which I am not able to use because it doesn't work and crashes my computer if I try to use it for any important assignment. I'm too old to start learning "Finale, Dorico, Overture, Notion, MuseScore, whatever" and I'm sure none of these are better than the last version of Sibelius that was maintained by Daniel Spreadbury and his excellent team of programmers. And even if I was able to switch to any of these alternatives, I have several years work and hundreds of Sib files that would need to be converted, if at all that was possible. If this forum was being monitored by any caring representative from Avid, they would see this post and all of my other 8.5.1 complaints, and try to get me back on the bandwagon. The only communication I have had was from someone from Avid who had a very heavy foreign accent which I just could not understand, resulting in me having to abort the phone call. If I was able to get a bug free copy of 8.5.1 or later, I would consider continuing my subscription. I simply cannot subscribe to a plan that gives me nothing I can actually use. I have just received an email informing me that my subscription expires in 30 days. There's not much time left in convincing me that my subscription will benefit me in any way other than not having to buy the full cost of renewing if ever an upgrade gets to be of value. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Uwe Mahnken - 26 May 07:14AM Hide picture >For nearly a year I have had a copy of 8.1.3 which I am not able to use because it doesn't work and crashes my computer if I try to use it for any important assignment. Adrian, have you tried 8.5.1? Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 26 May 07:22AM Hide picture Thank you, Uwe, I have updated my stupid error. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by LeoP - 26 May 07:41AM Hide picture Well, Adrian, you received 8.5.1. in "Sibelius 8.5 Dec 1, 2016 / Sibelius 8.5.1 Jan 19, 2017" see the post of Bob. So it has been 6 months since that time and not nearly a year ;). On the other side, earlier we recieved updates only every second year and I don’t know how it was in your case, but in Germany I paid 170 Euros per update to a new version. So I paid 85 Euros per year for an update. Now I pay 89 a year. And finally I received a feature to change staff sizes on a page per page basis. Have been waiting for it for ages. In my case I have never had a Sibelius crash in the last 2 years. With version 6 a lot, but not with 8.5.1. -- Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.5.1, 8.5, Photoscore Ultimate 7 and 8, Acrobat Pro... Win 10 Pro 64 bit, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 26 May 08:23AM Hide picture Posted by LeoP - 26 May 07:41 Well, Adrian, you received 8.5.1. in "Sibelius 8.5 Dec 1, 2016 / Sibelius 8.5.1 Jan 19, 2017" see the post of Bob. So it has been 6 months since that time and not nearly a year ;). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the correction, Leo. Maybe it just feels as long as a year of frustration of not being able to use the product for which I have paid dearly. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Laurence Payne - 26 May 10:27AM (edited 26 May 10:28AM) Hide picture Adrian has an unfortunate personal anecdote about Sibelius 8 and his particular system. I'm a little surprised his support from Avid has not progressed beyond one aborted phone call from what sounds like a first-level call centre. For all Avid's faults as a company, we do hear reports of effective trouble-shooting, often through a remote log-in etc. Have you tried my suggestion of creating a new User Account and running Sibelius from it yet, Adrian? That's quick and easy, and completely reversible. See how it responds with simple playback using Sibelius 7 Sounds before attempting any customised setup. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Adrian Drover - 26 May 12:26PM Hide picture I don't use Sib Sounds, Laurence. I have not loaded them because they are too memory hungry and my Yamaha box does everything I need for proofing and demoing with no fuss (no range restrictions etc.). I'm afraid I'm stuck with 7.1.3 unless I can find out what 8.5.1 is fighting on my system, and if that doesn't happen within the next 30 days, I'll be thrown off the bus. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Laurence Payne - 26 May 03:04PM Hide picture I know you prefer your own sounds, Adrian. I'm just suggesting that, for trouble-shooting purposes, we start from a standard setup under a new User Account. Anyway, forget the Sounds for the moment. Just do the new User Account. Maybe there won't initially be any playback at all. Forget the error message that tells you so. How does Sibelius 8 run otherwise? It won't need to be re-installed or anything. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Peter Roos - 28 May 02:09AM Hide picture For David and anyone else who is tired of Avid and Sibelius: Dorico has an upgrade planned, to be released before the end of June. See the blog by Philip Rothman, below, and the linked youtube video, by Dorico employee John Barron. http://www.scoringnotes.com/news/extensive-video-preview-dorico-1-1/ As currently planned the release of this update will coincide with the final date that current Sibelius / Finale users can take advantage of the cross grade pricing for Dorico ($300 instead of $600). During the Youtube presentation, I asked Daniel whether this was a firm deadline - he said no, but they haven't made up their minds yet. So if you are interested in Dorico, NOW is the time to take advantage of their crossgrade offer. I do not work for Dorico / Steinberg / Yamaha. I do not work for Avid / Sibelius. I have license for Sibelius, Dorico, Overture, Notion, and I'm thinking of buying a cross grade license for Finale as well. My point is really simple: if you don't like a product, or the company behind it, just stop using it, and move on. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by David - 28 May 03:03AM Hide picture > > My point is really simple: if you don't like a product, or the company behind it, just stop using it, and move on. > > -- My point is simple as well: I am a longtime customer who has paid a lot of money over the years. I PAID IN ADVANCE for updates I never got. Peter: It's written all over this thread. Bob M. has posted exact quotes. I'm not sure what you are not getting. Can you see the exact quotes that have been printed, that say in no uncertain terms that we have been ripped off by Avid? I hate to bring politics into this, but it's the most fitting analogy I can think of: You don't seem to be upset by the corruption/malfeasance/crappy treatment of customers. You seem to be upset by the protesting of said treatment. I don't understand that at all, but it's mirroring things going on in the world today. No way, no how should this be tolerated. Avid rips us off and you're upset that we're complaining about being ripped off? Wow man, wow. Regardless: We have every right to protest the shoddy treatment. You should too. -- 8.5, Windows 10 Avid treats its customers poorly, it's a terrible company. Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Bob Morabito - 28 May 03:52AM Hide picture >Posted by Peter Roos - 28 May 02:09AM For David and anyone else who is tired of Avid and Sibelius: Dorico has an upgrade planned, to be released before the end of June. See the blog by Philip Rothman, below, and the linked youtube video, by Dorico employee John Barron. http://www.scoringnotes.com/news/extensive-video-preview-dorico-1-1/ As currently planned the release of this update will coincide with the final date that current Sibelius / Finale users can take advantage of the cross grade pricing for Dorico ($300 instead of $600). During the Youtube presentation, I asked Daniel whether this was a firm deadline - he said no, but they haven't made up their minds yet. So if you are interested in Dorico, NOW is the time to take advantage of their crossgrade offer. I do not work for Dorico / Steinberg / Yamaha. I do not work for Avid / Sibelius. I have license for Sibelius, Dorico, Overture, Notion, and I'm thinking of buying a cross grade license for Finale as well. My point is really simple: if you don't like a product, or the company behind it, just stop using it, and move on. > HI Peter-- A few hours ago ago I had posted the same link, and Bob Z--Bob Zawalich--had posted this reply here: http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=713810&groupid=3򮑢 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Preview of the Posted by Bob Zawalich - 27 May 10:45PM And these are certainly appropriate discussions for the Dorico forum, or even the Sibelius Facebook forum, neither of which are brought to you by Avid. Kindly take the discussion to an appropriate location. Thanks -- Now as a plugin creator I have only the highest respect for Bob as we all do, however this post sounds more like an AVID employee, than the Bob Z I once knew. Sad..very sad. This is all very confusing and I found this even more disappointing taking into account his VERY strong stand against AVID, in the past and stating then he wasn't working for them and hed write no more plugins. This has not turned out to be the case, which we all are thankful for, but it was such a strong stand, which didnt hold true.. And among many other posts concerning Dorico that Bob HIMSELF has taken part in, (among others Bob has even advised a Sib user to check out Dorico, and even upstaged Dorico by "copying" a plugin before they released it as a feature, and has severely criticized AVID and Sib MANY TIMES, and much more)-- -- why this stand now? So Im very confused, and concerned about his reply and confusing actions--the main reason that trying to hide AVIDS faults, and the horrible job they've done with Sib (Bob has also written about this frequently), NO amount of trying to hide the truth of all of this, or try to stamp out ALL Dorico threads, especially, is going to save Sib, AVID, or make it look any better. Its only going to bring MORE attention to these Dorico threads, etc and the rampant dissatisfaction with Sibelius and AVID. What a sad turn of events, but totally in line with everything else.. So, all in all a very long winded way (sorry!) to suggest perhaps Peter you might remove your post concerning Dorico before youre taken to task also... Sad.. Thanks Bob -- Bob -- Bob Morabito Dorico 1.0.30 Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by Chris Crawley - 28 May 08:57AM Hide picture I have made a comment about why I started the thread about Dorico in that thread. (http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=713810&groupid=3&) It seems confusing that discussion about that thread is taking place here. I'm also worried that comments about other posters are going to get in the way of the main points being made about the future of Sibelius and the way Avid is managing things - or not. I really hope we are not going to see that. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: I can't get any 'fixes' (patches) unless I pay yearly payments? Posted by James - 28 May 02:54PM Hide picture Peter Roos: "My point is really simple: if you don't like a product, or the company behind it, just stop using it, and move on." Why should I stop using Sib 6.2 which works well, without the ribbon, without any bugs that I encounter? I like it. I just don't like what Avid has done since, how they are charging a ransom subscription for a product I don't like and don't use. So unless something happens between now and the subscription expiration, I will let it lapse. Will I stop complaining? Of course not! What fun would that be? -- Mac OS 10.12 Sierra Sibelius 6.2 Back to top | All threads