Messages in this thread

(GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibel... - Credo, 06 Jan 05:50PM
     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 06:59PM
         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 08 Jan 07:43PM
             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 08:12PM
                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 09:28PM
                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 09 Jan 12:10PM
                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 09 Jan 02:46PM
                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 09 Jan 04:32PM
                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 10 Jan 05:47PM
                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 12 Jan 11:10AM
                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 12 Jan 12:06PM
                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 13 Jan 11:06AM
                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 13 Jan 02:45PM
                                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Mike Bell, 21 Feb 04:09PM
                                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Lauro Ferrarini, 26 Oct 06:50AM
                                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Mark Starr, 19 Dec 01:25AM
                                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 22 Sep 01:36AM
                                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 25 Sep 04:45AM
                                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Robin Walker, 25 Sep 08:41AM
                                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Charles ALAZET, 24 Oct 12:34PM
                                                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - ronfromkwon, 16 Nov 01:35PM

(GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 06 Jan 05:50PM (edited 08 Jan 06:52PM)
Here is my newest personal GPO5 soundset for Sibelius (Version 22).
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-9pjh4Xl8gsN0JoY0Vic3dfWlk

This time I include the new Orchestral Strings and auto interpretive sticky node support for most of the keyswitches.

Legacy strings can still be dialed up via the Sibelius Mixer Map or through the stave instrument setup process.

Please check it out and let me know about any potential bugs.
Suggestions and advice are also welcome.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 08 Jan 06:59PM (edited 08 Jan 08:35PM)
The download link has been updated to version 22.

Version 22 fixes a problem where section cellos were loading when the user intends a solo cello.

It also includes further tweaking to get better sounding GOS section strings.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Francesco - 08 Jan 07:43PM (edited 08 Jan 07:46PM)
Thank you Credo, you're doing a wonderful work!

But there's a thing I can't grasp... In your documentation one reads:

Say you use a dictionary command that adds the +stacc node, the Soundworld ID would now be something like: strings.violins.staccato.stacc

then you list a lot of 'Playback Techniques', for example:

mute - Con Sord.
trill - Forces the shortest attack and engages the legato pedal.
vibrato - Engages the heavy vibrato key switch.
shortest - (Default) Shortest attack style possible (The starting sample offset [CC119] gets changed)
shorter - Cuts the first 75% from the attack
short - Cuts the first 50% from the attack
etc...

But which are the relative Soundworld IDs? Don't we need them to add these words in the Playback Dictionary? Or do I misunderstand something?

Perhaps could you add the House Style with these words in the Playback Dictionary? :*)

Thank you

--
Francesco
---
Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22
Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 08 Jan 08:12PM (edited 22 Sep 01:45AM)
Yes, I'll add sample scores and manuscript papers ASAP.

As soon as I get a chance I'll throw together an example score to demonstrate concepts, plus people could export the dictionary as a style.

In fact, if someone has a Sibelius score of a nice orchestral piece (or a portion of one) that also has soloists representing all the string sections I can get permission to include with the soundset (or maybe something in Sibelius format from the public domain) It'd speed things up for me big time! Please email it to me or throw up a link :)

Meanwhile, I'll attempt to better explain the logic.

First understand that by default Sibelius already adds some common nodes as they occur in the score.
If there is a staccato dot on a note it adds the node "staccato".
strings.violin.staccato

If there is slur on a note it adds, "legato".
strings.violin.legato

If there is a housetop it adds, "marcato".
strings.violin.marcato

If a note has both a staccato and a slur it adds "portato".
strings.violin.legato.staccato.portato

And so on....

Note you CAN change these defaults in your Playback Dictionary, but unless you have a special case, you don't need to with my soundset. Instead, we just add sticky stuff on the end.

My sticky nodes are designed so that they get tacked onto the end of these defaults.
I.E.
Lets say you set a couple of my sticky nodes like "stacc" and "lmart"...they are intended to stay there. So as Sibelius goes through the score it sends stuff like:
strings.violin.stacc.lmart (No match, plays default sustain)
strings.violin.legato.stacc.lmart (Closest match is legato, so CC68@127)
strings.violin.staccato.stacc.lmart (Match! Staccato key switch engages)
strings.violin.legato.staccato.portato.stacc.lmart (Match! Martele key switch engages)
strings.violin.pizzicato (Match! Pizz key switch engages).
etc...

My soundset is watching for this particular match in order to use the 'staccato key switch' provided by new GOS strings.
+staccato +stacc

If there's no short bow mode like "+stacc, spicc, mart, etc.", when Sibelius sends "strings.violin.staccato", then it's going to pick my default staccato assignment that's listed under just:
+staccato (I just use a long attack on the regular sustained sound with a short release time)

I've also got ARIA settings in the Soundset's switch types for matches like:
+staccato +mart
+staccato +saut
+portato +lmart
+portato +lsaut

And so on.........
(feel free to open up the soundset in an xml or text editor and look at it...learn from it, add to it, etc.)


When you build an instruction in the playback dictionary you can choose if it will only apply for a single note, or if the node gets 'sticky' and remains part of the stave's SoundWorld ID until such time as you drop the node or send a [reset].

As a general rule of thumb, in this particular soundset if I've given a node a 'shortened' name (I.E. spicc instead of spiccato), it's intended to be able to serve as a sticky node and change 'default interpretation of notes marked staccato until that spicc node is dropped and possibly replaced with something else (I.E. stacc)', so you don't have to go through an entire score and mark every single individual note you'd like played spiccato. Instead, all you need do if you want to change from spiccato to martele, is build a technique or expression that that drops the spicc node and adds the mart note ( -spicc +mart ). From that point on all notes marked staccato (that do NOT live under slurs, use lmart for the notes living under slurs) become martele.

If I've spelled out a node in full. I.E. "marcato", then you should NOT use it as a sticky node. Instead set such techniques, expressions, or symbols to only apply it to the note it is attached.

Here's an example excerpt from Richard's score (I hope he doesn't mind).
https://postimg.cc/image/yh9ef0yvh/

And here you can see playback dictionary entries:

long: (Notice how I drop the other attacks -short, -shorter, shortest, etc...)
https://postimg.cc/image/413hgwdcd/

shortest: (Notice how I drop all the other attacks).
https://postimg.cc/image/nzjcj9y19/

martele: Notice how I drop all the short bow nodes (-saut -stacc -spicc, etc).
https://postimg.cc/image/ywko81kst/

staccato: Notice how I drop all the other short bow nodes...
https://postimg.cc/image/imui55a4t/

Obviously all the nodes I'm dropping in my example techniques above are not always set (my goal is to only ever have ONE of them set at a time)...I just go ahead and put them there so IF they were active they'd get dropped. I can keep using this same technique over and over again in my score this way.

I could have also done something like this, but chose not for the sake of our Con Sordino stuff (would have to reset the +mute all over again if it were applied):
long: [reset] +long
martele: [reset] +mart

As that [reset] clears all nodes down to the default SoundWorld ID for the stave (In this case, strings.violin).

Notice how I just tag the first note in a series that I want played martele, later when I want to change that to staccato I just add a "stacc" technique which adds a +stacc node (while dropping any other relative nodes to staccato notes). It stays 'staccato' until I later change it to something else :)

I know it would seem to make more sense if I'd just spelled everything out in full (spiccato, staccato, etc.) and let Sibelius do all the math where it can. The problem there is YOU don't get much flexibility or control over things that way (sometimes a dot under a slur should mean martele, others it might should mean sautille or staccato, etc.), plus you'd have to spend far much more time tagging every little individual note in the score that you'd want to 'over-ride' Sibelius on.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 08 Jan 09:28PM
bump since I've gone back and added images...

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Francesco - 09 Jan 12:10PM
Thank you!

This week I am abroad, without Sibelius, so I cannot test anything.

For now thanks again!

--
Francesco
---
Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22
Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Jean - 09 Jan 02:46PM
Hi Credo
Thanks for the invaluable job you are doing!
I'm a little bit lost because you show a list of different articulations (for strings per example) in your accompanying pdf explanation and I do not get the same results at all in my GPO5 version (see 1st violins enclosed...)
I changed the sound id's in PREFERENCES to PROGRAM NAME but the list is very different from yours...
I'm on Mac if that makes a difference
Thanks for your help
Jean

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 09 Jan 04:32PM (edited 09 Jan 05:33PM)
Jean,

I'm not seeing a score in your post above if you wanted me to look at it.

If you are referring to the list showing in my documentation when demonstrating how to change sounds via the Sibelius Mixer, this is normal.

Just load scores, play them, and experiment with what you do have available at this point.

When it comes to the strings, you should see mostly instruments with a "KS" in their name and only a few others that do not.

I made those screen shots when I had all of the individual or (lite) variants included in the soundset. That was months ago, and was simply a template to see if I could get everything available in GPO5 to at least load into Sibelius.

For debugging purposes I've stripped out the majority of those (you still get access to 99% of the actual sounds via key-switches).

I'll eventually put them ALL back in the soundset, but it'll take a while to put them back in one by one, test, and avoid any conflicts with all our key switching stuff in both the new GOS and old Legacy strings.

When I get around to it, I'll prioritize and put the things back in that are not already available by some key-switch first (I.E. Ricochet, 10 and 22 Violin sustains, etc.).

In short, you're not really missing out on anything in the short term. I'll eventually put all the non key-switching stuff back in with unlocked parameters (stuff like sustain and decay envelopes) in case a user wants to isolate and load a single articulation (I.E. just violin 1 martele into an isolated ARIA slot) and tweak it out by hand. I think there's enough learning curve to what we have right now though...so I'm not in a huge hurry to cram all that stuff into the soundset as well.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 10 Jan 05:47PM (edited 10 Jan 07:38PM)
Jean,

Here's a short score (in progress...It'll grow and eventually be annotated and included with the soundset) that includes some examples and has techniques assigned in the playback dictionary. Try playing it at different tempos to get a better idea of how having the ability to easily swap default interpretations of various score symbols on the fly can be quite helpful (and very tempo dependent to make the best choices). You can export to a style for other scores if you like. In this one I've decided to add new nodes (atk and run) that will be used in an upcoming update.

The new nodes shouldn't affect v22 results, but in the next version I release the addition of new atk and run nodes will make it easy to force long run passages to use a specific keyswitch for the entire thing (regardless of markings like staccato/legato/etc.). That way you could experiment with forcing a fast passage to run the entire thing using something like detache and not have to go through and tag up every individual note in the run (just because it's named detache in GPO5 doesn't mean it might not be useful for getting other sorts of sounds depending on a particular tempo and passage). When the run is over, just drop -run and add +atk back to the ID. My goal with the 'run' node is to hopefully find us a way to get really fast passages to play without any vibrato beats in each note (not sure yet, but maybe forcing properly tweaked detache or martele samples can do this).

In this score I have a simple passage that repeats several times but uses different settings on each pass, so it's important to take a look at each 'red or green text technique' with the inspector open so you can see how I've set them to only be active on certain passes.

Also, for best results on staccato and tenuto stuff, you're likely to want to use the live playback adjustments to tweak out note durations as needed.
Attachment GPO5 Soundset Example.sib (33K)

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Jean - 12 Jan 11:10AM
Hello Credo
Thank you for this very complete explanation and yes, I was confused with your list not matching mine... Now I understand better.
I would like to try your example though but I can't open it because I'm still on version 7.5.
Could you please convert it and send back?
Thanks a lot!

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 12 Jan 12:06PM
> Hello Credo
> Thank you for this very complete explanation and yes, I was confused with your list not matching mine... Now I understand better.
> I would like to try your example though but I can't open it because I'm still on version 7.5.
> Could you please convert it and send back?
> Thanks a lot!

Here it is for Sib 7.5.
Attachment GPO5 Soundset Example - v22 - Sib7.5.sib (33K)

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Jean - 13 Jan 11:06AM
Excellent!!
This shows some of the huge potential of this library.
Can't wait to fully integrate it in Sibelius
Thanks for your invaluable contribution Credo!

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Francesco - 13 Jan 02:45PM
Thank you!

--
Francesco
---
Sib6.2, MUSESCORE, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22
Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Mike Bell - 21 Feb 04:09PM
Credo,

So I gather this works only for Windows machines? I had a look at your manual, and it seemed so.

Kind regards,

Mike

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Lauro Ferrarini - 26 Oct 06:50AM (edited 26 Oct 11:23AM)
Thank you Credo for sharing your work!!!
Really helpful.
Just a question: GPO 5 equalizer is not working: am I missing something?
Lauro
--
Sibelius 18.7, MacMini Late 2012,2,3 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB RAM, macOS Sierra

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Mark Starr - 19 Dec 01:25AM (edited 19 Dec 01:43AM)
Hello Credo

Bravo for the fantastic work you have done with your soundset for GPO5 v22.

Is it possible to control vibrato, especially on solo string instruments, i.e., solo violin. I find the vibrato on the solo violin is too fast, making the instrument sound like Edith Piaf's singing, or Charles Aznavour. How about commands in Sibelius for vibrato espressivo, poco vibrato, senza vibrato, and lasciare vibrare (diminuendo x times the rhythmic value of the note.) Also, it would be great if instruments--especially strings--could play senza vibrato, for Early Music and Folk Music.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 22 Sep 01:36AM (edited 22 Sep 01:41AM)
> Hello Credo
>
> Bravo for the fantastic work you have done with your
> soundset for GPO5 v22.
>
> Is it possible to control vibrato, especially on solo string
> instruments, i.e., solo violin. I find the vibrato on the
> solo violin is too fast, making the instrument sound like
> Edith Piaf's singing, or Charles Aznavour. How about
> commands in Sibelius for vibrato espressivo, poco vibrato,
> senza vibrato, and lasciare vibrare (diminuendo x times the
> rhythmic value of the note.) Also, it would be great if
> instruments--especially strings--could play senza vibrato,
> for Early Music and Folk Music.

It has been a while since I've visited this forum, sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your query Mark.

It's been a while since I've worked with the Library, but if memory serves I'm afraid the vibrato is built into the sample, so there's no way to remove it.

Instead, change to a different Solo Violin sound and try that.

Note, if you go with the Legacy string soloists, you might run into issues where fast passages are too soft, and choppy sounding. The good news is that you can correct this by engaging the legato pedal (cc68: Add a slur over the passage, hide it if you don't want it to show), and/or raising the key velocity of such passages.

For a fully senza vibrato sound, the closest that I know of in GPO5 are found in the directory:
Personal Orchestral 5/10 Garritan Orchestral Strings/Section Strings/(instrument)/(Instrument) Long Bows

I might not have added those to the v22 sound set, but if you need them you can load them into a fresh instance of ARIA as a manual instrument and assign whatever soundworld ids you'd like to trigger them.

I've found that if you work with Garritan sounds in the manual mode, it's best to go for non key-switching variants of instruments.

Hopefully someday soon I'll get a chance to revisit the project, add anything else that is missing, make tweaks/improvements/etc.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Credo - 25 Sep 04:45AM
> Credo,
>
> So I gather this works only for Windows machines? I had a look at your manual, and it seemed so.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mike

It should work with Mac.

I'm not sure where to put it on your hard drive though.

If you can figure out where to put the xml file on your system, it should work, and the rest of the documentation should be applicable.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Robin Walker - 25 Sep 08:41AM
To install a SoundSet file into Sibelius on a Mac, proceed as follows:

- ensure that Sibelius is fully quit (not even in the background);
- in macOS Finder, hold down the Option key while pulling down the "Go" menu, and select "Library"'
- in the User Library that opens, open sub-folder "Application Support";
- in "Application Support", open sub-folder "Avid";
- in "Avid" open sub-folder "Sibelius" (for Sibelius versions 8.0 and higher), or the sub-folder with the name "Sibelius" followed by the version number of the earlier version of Sibelius that you are using;
- in "Sibelius", if there is not already a sub-folder with the name "Sounds", then create it;
- copy the SoundSet .xml file into the "Sounds" folder;
- now try launching Sibelius.

--
Sibelius 2019.7/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2018.7, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by Charles ALAZET - 24 Oct 12:34PM
> To install a SoundSet file into Sibelius on a Mac, proceed as follows:
>
> - ensure that Sibelius is fully quit (not even in the background);
> - - - - - - - - -
.........
......

> - ...in "Sibelius", if there is not already A SUB-FOLDER WITH THE NAME "SOUNDS", THEN CREATE IT;
> - copy the SoundSet .xml file into the "Sounds" folder;
> - now try launching Sibelius.


Thanks a lot Robin ! I've been on that case for more than a month, spending hours
looking for musicians having the same trouble to install the GPO 5 soundset on a Mac... and the CAPITAL LETTERS of your quote is the key to open the door, now I can take time to make it working ( see png picture : the Garritan Personnal Orchestra 5.22 on the roll-up MENU is ready to propose its instruments ).

Another warmful greetings to you, wishing great music with your softwares and PC !
Charles.
Attachment Capture d’écran 2019-10-24 à 14.19.37.png (204K)

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Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibelius Soundset (v22)
Posted by ronfromkwon - 16 Nov 01:35PM
Just a quick note to say thank you!


I had to build a new PC earlier in the year and reinstall everything. I also upgraded to GPO5.


Today, I started transcribing the score of Hallelujah Chorus to play as a backing track, abd this was the point I realised I hadn't got around to setting things up properly. After far too long getting anything other than default MIDI to make any sounds at all, I was getting ready to write the score out by hand!


I never really got to grips with sound sets but the instructions you gave were very clear and after 2 mins I have got things working well enough!


I plan on creating some original orchestral compositions - most of the time I have only needed to create lead sheets but shows have been cancelled this year.

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Messages in this thread

(GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New Sibel... - Credo, 06 Jan 05:50PM
     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 06:59PM
         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 08 Jan 07:43PM
             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 08:12PM
                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 08 Jan 09:28PM
                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 09 Jan 12:10PM
                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 09 Jan 02:46PM
                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 09 Jan 04:32PM
                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 10 Jan 05:47PM
                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 12 Jan 11:10AM
                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 12 Jan 12:06PM
                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Jean , 13 Jan 11:06AM
                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Francesco, 13 Jan 02:45PM
                                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Mike Bell, 21 Feb 04:09PM
                                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Lauro Ferrarini, 26 Oct 06:50AM
                                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Mark Starr, 19 Dec 01:25AM
                                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 22 Sep 01:36AM
                                                 Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Credo, 25 Sep 04:45AM
                                                     Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Robin Walker, 25 Sep 08:41AM
                                                         Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - Charles ALAZET, 24 Oct 12:34PM
                                                             Re: (GPO5)Garritan Personal Orchestra 5: New S... - ronfromkwon, 16 Nov 01:35PM