terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 01:26AM Hide picture Hello. I haven't used Sibelius for a while because the piano sound is so terrible. I have some time now & want to see how I can improve it. I installed Sib 8 and a new version of Sib Sounds, but I'm not sure if the new Sib Sounds installed correctly. Where do I find which version of Sib Sounds Sibelius is using? Thanks. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Laurence Payne - 27 Nov 02:36AM (edited 27 Nov 02:37AM) Hide picture There was no new version of the Sounds with Sibelius 8. It uses Sibelius 7 Sounds. If you had them installed already, you may have over-written them with an identical copy. No matter, but no difference! The playback device is chosen in Play/Configuration. Yours will probably have fewer options than shown in my screenshot. No matter - the ones that matter are the Sibelius 7 Sounds ones. It's not unknown for a user to have installed the Sounds but failed to select them for use in his score. So check they ARE selected! Remember Sibelius is a tool for producing publication-quality printed scores. Playback is secondary. But the Sounds piano isn't THAT bad. I suspect you aren't actually using it. Attachment Capture.PNG.png (86K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 03:11AM Hide picture Thanks, Laurence. I think I'm using it, but I'm attaching the configuration screen. The "test" plays back OK. But when I play the score, the piano is clangy and hollow. It was much better when I was using the Audiophile sound card, but the new computer has no room for it (and I don't think Avid has provided a driver for Windows 7 or 8 anyway). Attachment Sib playback configuration 2.png (395K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Nov 10:13AM Hide picture Please attach a screen-shot of the "Audio Engine Options" configuration from Sibelius. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 02:25PM Hide picture Here is a screen shot of the audio engine options. Thanks. Attachment Sib audio engine options.png (393K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Nov 03:20PM Hide picture Please check that you are using the latest version of ASIO4ALL. Please attach a screen-shot of the "ASIO setup" dialogue. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 03:40PM Hide picture I'm using V2.12 of ASIO4ALL. When I went to the site and tried to update, it sent me to something called DriverUpdate which apparently is a scam. Anyway, I didn't find any updates for ASIO4ALL.Here is a screen scot after I hit "ASIO setup." Attachment Sib ASIO setup.png (383K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Nov 03:48PM Hide picture The current version of ASIO4ALL is 2.13. Please install it. The correct site is: http://www.asio4all.com/ There is no "update" procedure: you should download the product, then execute the installer. A web-site does not "send you to something called DriverUpdate". The only thing that sends you to DriverUpdate is if you click on an advert for DriverUpdate, which is something best avoided. I'm unclear why you are using ASIO4ALL for the Scarlett 2i4. Try configuring "Audio Engine Options" to send directly to the Scarlett 2i4, using either the "(DS)" interface or the "(WASAPI)" interface options. Does the piano sound any better that way? -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 04:07PM Hide picture Robin, when I click on the link you sent, it sends me to the webpage on the attached screen shot. When I downloaded the program, it got me a list of 15 outdated drivers, but ASIO4ALL was not listed. And this site says I shouldn't go further. http://www.howtogeek.com/198758/never-download-a-driver-updating-utility-theyre-worse-than-useless/ Attachment ASIO link from Robin.png (492K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Nov 04:20PM Hide picture > Robin, when I click on the link you sent, it sends me to the webpage on the attached screen shot. Then your PC is infected with malware. The link should have taken you to the ASIO4ALL site, which is about ASIO4ALL, not about drivers. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 27 Nov 05:20PM Hide picture Thanks, Robin. Strangely, when I went to the link on Chrome rather than IE, I got to the right place. Using DS the sound is a little better, but the playing rushes ahead on occasional keys. So do I have the settings wrong? Wasabi may be a good compromise. I don't get the rushing, though the sound may not be quite as good. Attachment Sib audio engine options 2.png (501K) Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Peter Roos - 27 Nov 11:46PM Hide picture Hi Salieri: The Focusrite Scarlett has a dedicated ASIO driver which you can download from their website: https://us.focusrite.com/downloads?product=Scarlett+2i4 Make sure you have the correct product selected, apparently there are two different generations of Scarletts. In general it's always preferable to use the ASIO drivers that come with your soundcard. It's a decent little soundcard, no reason the piano should sound bad. And you may want to run Windows defender or some kind of anti-virus software, just to be sure you didn't accidentally install some malware ... there are some really nasty people out there trying to hack other people's computers. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 28 Nov 02:05AM Hide picture Thanks, Peter. I found the website and installed the dedicated driver. I can't say I notice a lot of difference, but at least I can work with the piano sound. Thanks to all who responded. Is there a higher-level way of getting better piano sound - maybe rich Bosendorfer sound? I compose mostly for piano, so I would be willing to spend more if it would really make a difference. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Laurence Payne - 28 Nov 02:35AM Hide picture It's hard to see how two competent audio cards, using any functioning driver, would sound drastically different. Unless the output of one was mismatched to the input of the amp/speaker being used. Piano is a very dynamic sound. Some soundcards have a higher output level than others. Is it possible you're overloading your speakers? Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Peter Roos - 28 Nov 03:24AM Hide picture > Thanks, Peter. I found the website and installed the dedicated driver. I can't say I notice a lot of difference, but at least I can work with the piano sound. Thanks to all who responded. > > Is there a higher-level way of getting better piano sound - maybe rich Bosendorfer sound? I compose mostly for piano, so I would be willing to spend more if it would really make a difference. The built-in Sibelius piano sounds are not bad at all. You really shouldn't be getting strange audio artifacts. I'm inclined to think there's something wrong with your computer setup. But that said, if you are looking for a really beautiful virtual piano, I can warmly recommend Pianos by East West. The Boesendorfer is my go to piano I load every morning, on my DAW, just to tinker around with. It is very heavy on computer resources, and it is expensive. The Boesendorfer is not the only piano; there's also a Steinway Grand, a Yamaha, and a Bechstein. All were sampled in many different velocity layers, with lid down / half open / open, different microphone settings, and with dozens of different convolution reverbs. -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Rob Tuley - 28 Nov 04:10AM (edited 28 Nov 04:27AM) Hide picture Forget about humungous sized sample libraries and try https://www.pianoteq.com/. The "stage" version isn't expensive, if you just want to use the instruments they provide. On the other hand if you get the "pro" version you can re-voice every individual note any way you like if you are really picky about the sound. The bundled pianos aren't bad (everything from a Beethoven-era fortepiano to modern Steinway and Yamaha imitations), but the "paid for" instruments are better. They have just released the Grotrian-Steinweg instrument featured on their main web page (that's the German company from which Steinway was a spin-off) - I used to play a smaller G-S grand for a few hours every week for about 15 years, and the Pianoteq version would certainly fool me that it's "the real thing." I've no idea what the current Sibelius library's piano samples are like, but the old Bosendorfer back in Sib 5(?) sounded like the instrument should have been chopped up for firewood long ago IMHO. Of course if you really want to get the best out of something like this, you have to play it live, not from a notation program! -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Robert Enns - 28 Nov 02:04PM Hide picture How well does pianoteq work with Sibelius? -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.4 Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Salieri - 29 Nov 03:30AM Hide picture Peter Roos may well be right that there is something wrong with my computer, but it's so hard to trouble-shoot because there are so many parts. Is it the driver? The Focusrite? Something in Sibelius Sounds or in Sibelius settings? I really think it is the latter. I just tried the Pianoteq site recommended by Rob Tuley. The Model B grand piano sounded great. If I could get that sound in Sibelius, I'd happily pay for it. But I'm just not confident that Sibelius would capture it. Any suggestions about how to test this? Thanks again to all who responded. Back to top | All threads

Re: terrible piano sound Posted by Rob Tuley - 29 Nov 03:57AM (edited 29 Nov 04:03AM) Hide picture > How well does pianoteq work with Sibelius? You can run it either as a stand-alone application driven by MIDI data or as a VST instrument, so it should work with the latest Sib one way or the other. At the most basic level it only needs note-velocity and the standard MIDI commands for sustain and una corda pedals. which are more or less standard for any virtual piano simulation. All the other controls can be set (and saved/restored) within Pianoteq itself, and you can reconfigure the MIDI inputs to control the pedals etc if you really need to. To get the best out of it you really need a "continuous" sustain pedal input that corresponds to the real-time movement of your foot on the pedals, and half-pedalling, etc, not just an "on-off switch" like the most basic MIDI pedal data. It's not too hard to get that working more or less automatically with Finale, but as my signature says, I'm way behind the current version of Sibelius. It can also respond to note-off velocity (i.e. the different amount of mechanical noise you might generate releasing a key quickly or slowly) - probably the only practical way to use that is to record "live" playing, using a MIDI keyboard that generates the data, and software that can remember it (which Sibelius might not), but that's certainly not a "must have" option to use it. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads