'Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout'

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Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature ch... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 02:57PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Robin Walker, 16 Oct 03:28PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 04:10PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Adrian Drover, 16 Oct 06:33PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 07:48PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Laurence Payne, 16 Oct 11:09PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 11:59PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Wim Hoogewerf, 17 Oct 06:40AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Bob Zawalich, 17 Oct 07:04AM

Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Tim Berens - 16 Oct 02:57PM
Greetings

Summary: adding a time signature (even one that matches the current time signature) unlocks locked parts and changes the formatting of parts.

This one bit my butt hard last night. My copyist did a set of orchestral parts for an arrangement, locked the format in all the parts, then returned the file to me for a final proofreading.

I noticed a rhythm that looked odd and created a Facebook post to ask about it. In creating that post, I inserted a (redundant) time signature into the file, made the post, then deleted the time signature.

The addition of this time signature unlocked the formatting in all of the parts and created all manner of mess. As I proofread, I spent about 2 hours encountering badly formatted part after bad part, which seemed odd since my copyist is very conscientious. Upon returning to the original file, I found that all the parts looked wonderful. The addition of the time signature destroyed the formatting.

I must redo hours of proofreading.

To recreate this problem:

Format a set of parts.
Add a redundant time signature (i.e. the same as the rest of the piece) at some point in the parts.
Notice that the parts are changed by the addition of the time signature.

Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Robin Walker - 16 Oct 03:28PM
It's possible that this is just exactly what Sibelius means when it asks: "Rewrite bars up to next time signature"?

If you use the ribbon gallery to insert the time signature, then the default answer to this question is YES, and the score will be re-written.

If you instead click "More Options", you will get the more detailed time signature dialogue, where you can choose whether to re-write the remainder of the score or not, and various other options.

Essentially, the time-signature ribbon gallery should be used for initial time-signature entry at the beginning of the score, when no music already exists after the time-signature location. In other circumstances, use the "More Options" dialogue.

--
Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Tim Berens - 16 Oct 04:10PM
Hi, Robin. Thanks for your reply.

The problem is that Sibelius doesn't ask unless you take the additional step of going to "More Options." It just rewrites those bars and destroys all the formatting in them.

It is the destruction of the formatting that looks to be a bug to me. I can't come up with any good reason for unlocking parts without at the very least a warning of some sort.

I am almost through with doing my proofreading for the second time because of this problem.

Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Adrian Drover - 16 Oct 06:33PM
Heck, is this something new? I seem to remember we used to get a warning message asking if we wanted bars to be rewritten.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Tim Berens - 16 Oct 07:48PM
Adrian:

Yes, it's new. I forget which release it brought it to Sibelius, but to get the old behavior -- as in having the option to rewrite or not rewrite -- you have to take an extra step and click the "More Options" button.

Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Laurence Payne - 16 Oct 11:09PM (edited 16 Oct 11:09PM)
Sometimes the old hands here forget that not everyone has modified their "T", "K" etc. shortcuts to lead directly to the old, full-featured menus, bypassing the pretty but less useful Ribbon Galleries :-)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Tim Berens - 16 Oct 11:59PM
Laurence:

Interesting tip. I had never thought of doing that.

Thanks.

Tim Berens
http://timberens.com
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 17 Oct 06:40AM
Tim, yes, that's certainly a good advice: Preferences > Keyboard Shortcuts > Notations Tab > Show Time Signature dialog > choose T and override the existing one for Time Signature. I've done this myself very soon after Sibelius 7 came up, next forgot all about it and therefor didn't really understand what your problem was.

--
MacOS 10.9.5 Sibelius 8.4.2
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature changes page layout
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 17 Oct 07:04AM
I do that as well. I hadn't realized that the Ribbon level time signature command always rewrote bars.

It has been that way since at least 7.1.3.

I think that is wrong and dangerous. I would prefer it if that command brought up a "Do you want to rewrite" dialog. Perhaps there could be an option for it in Preferences, but I think just going for rewrite is fairly often not what you want to do.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2016.
For plugin categories see http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/sibelius-download-page-plug-ins/
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signature ch... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 02:57PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Robin Walker, 16 Oct 03:28PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 04:10PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Adrian Drover, 16 Oct 06:33PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 07:48PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Laurence Payne, 16 Oct 11:09PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Tim Berens, 16 Oct 11:59PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Wim Hoogewerf, 17 Oct 06:40AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Bug report: Adding time signatur... - Bob Zawalich, 17 Oct 07:04AM