'Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?'

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Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 02:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Adrian Drover, 21 Aug 02:44PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 03:23PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Mike Lyons, 21 Aug 04:15PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 05:26PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Bob Zawalich, 21 Aug 05:30PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 07:33PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 04:49PM

Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Kevin Nolan - 21 Aug 02:07PM (edited 21 Aug 02:09PM)
Hi,

I wonder if anyone could tell me how I draw a harp glissando with these requirements. I've tried everything, but nothing works for me:

Key: Bb (Key indicated on score)

Duration of Glissando: Beats thee and four in a 4/4 bar

Direction: Up and back down to starting note

Start and end notes: Starting on 3rd beat on D 3rd line Bass Clef; moves up to F 5th line in Treble Clef; moves back down to D 3rd line in Bass Clef


So this is a single arc starting on D in Bass clef all the way to F in Treble Clef and back to D, over two beats.

The issues i've encountered include the fact that it's over two staves (I have 2-stave Harp on the score), as well as indicating the bottom and top notes; and then to place the Glissando mark between the D to high F and second Glissando mark from high F back down to D


I'd be very grateful to anyone who can tell me how to do this correctly do a Harpist would know the precise start and end notes and the duration over which the glissando should last.


Thanks,
Kevin Nolan
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Aug 02:44PM
Is this for printing or for playback? If for printing, the gliss line can be drawn across staves. If for playback, write the whole gliss on a single staff and hide it. Then add the printable gliss with 'play on pass' disabled. Use a different voice for the hidden playback.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Kevin Nolan - 21 Aug 03:23PM
Both - I want it to be seen on the full score, on the Harp part -and for it to play back using Sibelius' internal sounds.

I'm not clear on your guidance on the playback option - how can I write the glissando on one stave when the notes traverse two staves? Then, what do you mean by 'hide it' and how do I do that? Finally, alas I'm not clear at all what you mean by 'use a different voice' for 'hidden playback' and what that means.

I'm very inexperienced with Sibelius so please forgive ignorance on all of that! I need quite a lot of step-by-step instructions.

Thanks!
Kevin.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Mike Lyons - 21 Aug 04:15PM
A staff is almost infinite in height and depth, thanks to leger lines. See attached. This is not the only, nor, necessarily the best solution, but it is my 5 minute guess about a possible solution.

--
Win 10 Pro, 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, 8GB,7TB 7200rpm HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2,7.5, 8.3 NotePerformer, Miroslav Phil, Harmony Asst, GPO, COMB2, EWQLSO Plat, EWQLSC,
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.
Attachment harp gliss.png (253K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Kevin Nolan - 21 Aug 05:26PM (edited 21 Aug 07:29PM)
Hi Mike -

That works (if a Harpist is OK with it - though I have to go an octave higher than that).

Thanks a million for your time - I am very grateful, I really appreciate it.

Cheers!
Kevin
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 Aug 05:30PM (edited 21 Aug 05:35PM)
This is really way more work than is necessary, though. There are plugins that will help with this considerably.

1. Line Between Notes (category Lines) will make it easier for the lines to line up, though when it is across 2 staves you will likely have to select the right end of the line and use the arrow keys to draw the end into the other staff.

You will appreciate this plugin is you are drawing a lot of lines.

2. Harp Gliss Playback (category Harp) will generate MIDI messages for notes based on a specified tuning for the harp.

You can read about this and more in my free document Harp Notation in Sibelius, available at http://www.bobzawalich.com/harp-notation-in-sibelius/.

Also, this Sibelius Blog article
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/harp-glissando-and-arpeggio-playback-in-sibelius/

addresses gliss and arpeggio playback specifically.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2016.
For plugin categories see http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/sibelius-download-page-plug-ins/
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Kevin Nolan - 21 Aug 07:33PM
Hi Bob -

Thanks for your pointers. I did download your documents before, but they do not explain how to do what I'm after.

What surprises me about this is that I would have thought this is an incredibly common 'stock' technique in orchestral composing - just adding in Harp Glissansi at transitions for dramatic effect and so forth. I've come across it in a myriad of scores. How come this is not incredibly well documented, even in the Sibelius manual?

In any case, your document is appreciated and very good, but alas it does not explain how to insert an up-down harp glissando across two staves (perhaps you might consider adding a new section on how to do that ? :-) ).

cheers,
Kevin.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando over two staves?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Aug 04:49PM
For an up down gliss add one gliss line between the first 2 note and another between the 2nd and 3rd. For 2 staff glisses you will have to drag the ends of the lines in place.

That should make them look right. Line Between Notes can help with placement.

In Sibelius lines are only defined for a single staff, and will not playback over multiple staves.

For playback I recommend using Harp Gliss Playback. Once the lines are in place select all 3 notes and the 2 lines and a passage and the plugin will add the MIDI messages for the notes.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2016.
For plugin categories see http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/sibelius-download-page-plug-ins/
Attachment snap1.png (59K)
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Glissando... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 02:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Adrian Drover, 21 Aug 02:44PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 03:23PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Mike Lyons, 21 Aug 04:15PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 05:26PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Bob Zawalich, 21 Aug 05:30PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Kevin Nolan, 21 Aug 07:33PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: How to insert Up-Down Harp Gliss... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 04:49PM