I've encountered some curious behaviour in Sibelius 7.5.
Certain trills in a flute part began causing problems later in the score. Passages well after the offending trill(s) begin to play back as if they also have trill lines over them. Articulations and techniques (staccato, staccatissimo, and flutter-tongue) play back on the wrong notes, or not at all.
I've isolated an excerpt from the score I'm working on and removed all instruments except the flute; find attached.
Do the problems reproduce on your system?
• The trills in m. 22–23 are the first to cause the problems. On my system, these cause every note in mm. 25–28 (under the long slur) to trill.
• The bisbigliando (an adapted trill line) in m. 29 causes mm. 37–40 to trill, m. 58 to not play the staccatissimo markings, and the flutter-tongue in mm. 63–64 gets incorrectly applied to mm. 65–66 instead.
When I delete the trills in mm. 22–23 and m. 29, all the above problems go away. If I delete only some of them, the playback problems shift to different parts of this excerpt. Strategically using hidden "nat." markings also shifts the problems around but doesn't actually cancel them.
All very strange.
If you have any solutions, I'd love to hear them. For now I'm just disabling playback of the offending trills, but I'm still curious. This looks and walks like a bug...
You can (at least partially) cure the problem under the slur in bb25-28 by placing a hidden text ~legato over the slurs that do not play legato.
bisbigliando is really just tremolando (at least it would be on a brass instrument - rapidly switching between alternate fingerings on the same note.) Disable play on pass for the trill symbol as well as the bisb. I don't get any of the other effects you mention in Sib 8.3.I have a feeling sib 7 sounds does not have a bisbigliando sample in any case.
Thanks Robin. Hadn't spotted that thread because I was searching for flute-specific problems. Mea culpa.
The workarounds presented therein are not real solutions, of course.
Glad to hear the trill symbol now works in playback (hadn't tried since moving to 7.5). However, it introduces an element of notational ambiguity (the exact duration of the performed trill). In my experience, any ambiguity of intention is to be avoided like the plague. There's never enough rehearsal time to waste even seconds on something that can be made clear from the outset.
Disabling "play on pass" on the problematic trills is on the whole the best workaround for my purposes. Probably too much to hope that a patch will be made for this bug...
Still, I'm extremely curious why only some trill lines cause these playback problems.
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www.hstafylakis.com Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5
I've always wondered what "bisbigliando" actually means. Seems it comes from the Italian for "whisper". I used to think of it as an orchestral flurry until a harpist once told me it was simply a unison trill between two adjacent enharmonically tuned strings.
I shouldn't think there are any samples of bisbigliando in the supplied sounds since it involves different fingering for the same note in flute technique and not that common. I'm curious how it was "adapted" presumably in the play dictionary.
Thanx Robert. Yet another interpretation of bisbigliando. Same pitch, different harmonic & fingering. Same deal with valved brass. And awful sound on sax.
I had always thought bisbigliando was a string technique (specifically harp) but it's interesting to see it used on flute. Are flautists too high brow to just use trem or does it actually do something different on flute? I'm curious to know.
The different fingering produce slight changes of pitch usually. they are often used to help intonation at various volume levels. Or to produce multitones or to facilitate an awkward fingering connection between notes if normal fingering were used. Or just to be perverse.
Berio uses this all the time. Sequenza VII (solo oboe) is built on playing a G using 3 different fingerings to alter the pitch and tone. I've seen this in a lot of other contemporary music as well.
As Adrian says, bisbigliando is a fairly common harp technique – a trill between adjacent enharmonic unison strings (e.g., C# – Db). A gentle rustling.
On winds, bisb. (a.k.a. "timbral trill") is a trill on two (or more) fingerings of the same pitch. On flute, the rapid alternation between the subtle tuning and timbral differences of each fingering results in a sustained note with a soft bubbling or gurgling effect.
Robert..."perverse"? Okay, sure.
–HS
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www.hstafylakis.com Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5
Perverse was meant to cover the use of alternate fingerings when it wasn't really useful.
Nothing to do with bisbigliando when it indicated by a composer.
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Rob
Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM
Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.2
Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4
Flute playback bugs (2016-05-25) test.sib