(Sam) Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Sam at Sibelius - 20 May 01:01PM (edited 31 Aug 05:37PM) Hide picture In response to your feedback, we're introducing new upgrade plans for those who upgrade after June 30th this year. No longer will you have to take out a new subscription or buy a new license of Sibelius to get current. ​ Every regular (non-subscription) copy of Sibelius 8 comes with an annual Upgrade and Support plan, which is renewable for $89 a year. This entitles you to all the upgrades we release, plus access to support for a year. If you don't renew, or haven't upgraded to Sibelius 8 yet, the price to get current with the latest version of Sibelius from July 1st 2016 will be $299. This will provide you with the latest version of Sibelius and come with a year of upgrades and support. This is then renewable annually for $89. ​ If you do have Sibelius 8 but don't renew, there will be a 30-days grace period for you to renew for $89. If you miss the 30-day window, the upgrade price to get current will be $299. ​ However, if you're in education, we are keeping the renewal and upgrade prices at $89 for student and teachers, and $29 per seat for schools with multi-seat licenses, affectively removing the deadline. ​ For more information, please see the recent blog post. ​ Sam -- Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius [email protected] | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius Contact the Sibelius support team: www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html KB and other resources: www.sibelius.com/support Attachment Sibelius-Get-Current.png (332K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 20 May 01:17PM Hide picture Congratulations and thank you for this, Sam. Excellent news, and very welcome. Can I just request a clarification re the split between Education and Professional licences? If our original licence was an Education licence (purchased when in full time education), but we are no longer in full time education, are we still eligible for the $89 price after July 1st? i.e. is there a fresh requirement to prove educational eligibility or is it all done on the type of original Sibelius licence we own? Many thanks for any clarification you can give. -- Mac Mini, OS X 10.11.4, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 7.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Sam at Sibelius - 20 May 01:24PM Hide picture Hi Nicholas, Good question. Those in education will need to verify their eligibility each time they upgrade at $89 to prove they are eligible for the discount. This allows someone who was a student or teacher, who has since left academia, to get current for $299, but also allows someone who maybe was a 'pro' and has recently become a student or teacher, say, to enjoy the $89 discount. If you're just renewing the upgrade plan, the price is $89 whether you're in education or not so there's no verification on that. Sam -- Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius [email protected] | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius Contact the Sibelius support team: www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html KB and other resources: www.sibelius.com/support Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 01:32PM (edited 20 May 01:34PM) Hide picture Hi Sam-- Thanks for this, and I applaud the effort. This is a good thing:) But in all honesty and speaking ONLY for myself: 1) I still feel its way too high and punitive-- Bob Z's workaround is still cheaper, http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=695677&groupid=3&words&name=bob%20zawalich#695711 and I asked recently if it would be allowed but received no answer. Will it be allowed? (Even with that, I feel its STILL way too high) 2) It seems very much to me also that it took WAY too much"feedback", for way too long, AND it also took a new notation program being made public where users are flocking to, to bring about this small change. Again, a very small step forward, which is appreciated, but only a baby step, when bigger strides, I feel are needed. Just my opinion, and thanks again. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 20 May 02:10PM Hide picture > Hi Sam-- Thanks for this, and I applaud the effort. This is a good thing:) > > But in all honesty and speaking ONLY for myself: > > 1) I still feel its way too high and punitive-- > > Bob Z's workaround is still cheaper, http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=695677&groupid=3&words&name=bob%20zawalich#695711 and I asked recently if it would be allowed but received no answer. > > Will it be allowed? > > (Even with that, I feel its STILL way too high) > > 2) It seems very much to me also that it took WAY too much"feedback", for way too long, AND it also took a new notation program being made public where users are flocking to, to bring about this small change. > > Again, a very small step forward, which is appreciated, but only a baby step, when bigger strides, I feel are needed. > > Just my opinion, and thanks again. > > Thanks Bob > > -- > Bob Morabito > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 > Fin 2014.5 > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD > > https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 I am somewhat relieved still $299.00 is still to high. Should be $199.00 or less. As to your point the new notation software.....spot on with that. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 20 May 01:34PM (edited 20 May 01:35PM) Hide picture Thanks, Sam. In that case, might I be so bold as to suggest that your promotional image could do with being edited to make this clearer? My license is an Edu license, rather than a Pro license (as I purchased it when I was in full-time education), but as I am no longer in full-time education I will not be eligible for the discounted Get Current rate (if I don't upgrade before July 1st). This seems completely fair, by the way, so I am not quibbling. It was just that the specific reference in the graphic to 'Professional license holders (non-Edu)' that made me wonder as to whether I would be eligible for the discounted rate in perpetuity or not. (I currently hold an Education license, as that's what I purchased from Avid in August 2011 when I was in full-time education.) It would be best, I think, to make it as clear as possible. Sorry to be difficult. Thanks once again, and can I stress once more that it is excellent to see this change in policy. -- Mac Mini, OS X 10.11.4, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 7.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 20 May 01:41PM (edited 20 May 01:45PM) Hide picture I just created a new version of that image and we'll get it uploaded asap Nicholas. Thanks for the idea! Update: uploaded new image on Sam's original post. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 20 May 04:17PM (edited 20 May 04:42PM) Hide picture To add my tuppence-worth: I had hoped for something better than this and I fear that the new price will be seen as a half-hearted attempt to capture custom. It's only fair, however, to point out that the new price is a big reduction on the old, but I don't think it actually addresses the problem. $89 (= about £60) to upgrade before June 30th, with a year's free updates. $299 (= about £205) to upgrade after June 30th, with a year's free updates. €299 (= about £230) initially to crossgrade to Dorico, with some free updates afterwards - details unknown. People will be eyeing Dorico, with its promise of a very bright future, and wondering whether to hang on until Q4 without paying Avid a penny, or if they feel Dorico won't have enough features for them by then, they will pay the minimum to keep themselves afloat, buy the crossgrade at the bargain price while it lasts and see how things pan out after that. So for many, perhaps the $299 figure is irrelevant. I'm wondering how many of us will even pay the $89. Maybe that is the figure that should be reduced - perhaps not by a lot, but it would be symbolic. I see three-year plans with discounts are to be introduced, which could be significant, but as things stand now, it seems to me that Avid is hoping that people won't pay the $89, will find Dorico a major disappointment, and will want to get back on board further down the tracks - and if they do, maybe the price doesn't look too bad. If that is indeed the reasoning I think it's very short-sighted. But when did Avid think very far into the future? Let's see what the three-year plans will look like, but they'll have to be pretty attractive to get people to hang on to Sibelius for three years, in which time Dorico will surely be roaring into the distance. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 20 May 04:55PM Hide picture So the trick will be to find an educational connection. I suspect most practical musicians won't find that too hard. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by vintagevibe - 20 May 05:11PM Hide picture I agree that it should be more like $199 but at least Avid is listening. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Rob Tuley - 20 May 05:13PM Hide picture > Let's see what the three-year plans will look like, but they'll have to be pretty attractive to get people to hang on to Sibelius for three years, in which time Dorico will surely be roaring into the distance. And so most likely will "down market" options like Musescore, if the development plans they have already announced come to fruition. And whatever the financial deal is, you are also making a bet that Avid will survive for three years to actually provide the support. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 05:38PM Hide picture >I agree that it should be more like $199 but at least Avid is listening. I honestly think $199 is STILL too high, but getting closer--why not just have those who dont subscribe or who do and fall off the wagon, and want to get back on pay for what they missed to catch up--$89 per hear, or part of that for part of the year. And Im not so sure AVID is listening as much as being forced to finally HEAR whats been said by many for a LONG time now.. With the subscription deadline coming up, and Dorico, and their stock market woes, and $$$ involved it would be very foolish to NOT throw their long time, loyal users some sort of bone.. but this bone simply doesnt have much meat,if any,on it. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 05:42PM Hide picture >> Let's see what the three-year plans will look like, but they'll have to be pretty attractive to get people to hang on to Sibelius for three years, in which time Dorico will surely be roaring into the distance. >And so most likely will "down market" options like Musescore, if the development plans they have already announced come to fruition. And whatever the financial deal is, you are also making a bet that Avid will survive for three years to actually provide the support. > +1 ..all very good points.. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Hans Nel - 10 Jun 08:45AM (edited 11 Jun 04:27AM) Hide picture > >I agree that it should be more like $199 but at least Avid is listening. > > I honestly think $199 is STILL too high, but getting closer--why not just have those who dont subscribe or who do and fall off the wagon, and want to get back on pay for what they missed to catch up--$89 per hear, or part of that for part of the year.... > > -- > Bob Morabito > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 > Fin 2014.5 > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD > > https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Bob, I absolutely agree with you. I have subscribed for the past year, and to be perfectly honest, I'm NOT impressed with the "new" features I have PAID for. I did not even WANT those features, but other more useful ones! I still can't get over the note coloring feature! The point is, I paid $89 for almost NOTHING useful (only the enharmonic spelling is useful to me), except for tablet users (new/improved gestures and Mac improvements etc). I don't want to waste any more money for another year if THIS is going to be the trend! Users SHOULD be allowed to scope the field BEFORE spending money. If I decide to give AVID one year to see if they improve and add useful features, THEN I should be given the opportunity to join back in...WITHOUT BEING "PUNISHED!!!!" AVID is one of those companies that do NOT respect their users and respect that the money comes from US! They have this militaristic mindset that "you take what we give you...we don't want (to have to) listen to your desires regarding features...and you pay what WE want...take it or leave it." Bob, 5 years (or so) ago I had ENOUGH of MakeMusic and Finale. Matters were the SAME. Interface always looking the same, hardly any new features, OLD bugs NEVER got fixed...even up to today! Every year I paid for the next upgrade but it looked liked the previous version...with maybe a few bug fixes...nothing impressive justifying the upgrade money. (I don't remember now...are they still 32bit or have they actually gone 64bit. The last time I dealt with MakeMusic, the users still BEGGED for UNICODE, The latest version still does not impress.) So I ditched them because Daniel (and his dogma) really impressed me. Sibelius was fresh and HAPPENING! Now I do believe my season with them is coming to an end. Like Daniel said in a recent interview, Notation Software IS A TOOL. One has to choose the one that suits one's needs AND that is stable and supported well. Well, I think AVID is useless, and so does a LOT of users (Sibelius AND Pro Tools) in South Africa feel. I know because I am one of THE big role players here. Our Defence Force WILL NOT make use of AVID's subscription policy, hence their attitude to ditch Pro Tools and go to Logic Pro. As for me and teaching our military students "Bandmaster" and Director of Music" (Royal Schools ABRSM and LRSM etc.), I will recommend we research either Dorico, Overture 5 (maybe...because it is still BETA and buggy, but looks very promising) or the free MuseScore. I actually want to go TABLET and get the Defence Force to purchase StaffPad. With this, students can work at home as well and not only in class. I teach them, as well as students overseas through TeamViewer, and they ALL ask my opinion. I tell you, I'm professional and do NOT see Software as a friend to be loyal to. Like Daniel said, it IS a tool and I will definitely give my objective honest review. Truely, Finale and Sibelius' era is coming to an end...in MY opinion. These companies are NOT considering the different needs of ALL their clients (academic, professional, military, government (with strict budgets), hobbyists etc). Microsoft learned an expensive lesson but al least they caught on and made use of the user base to improve thereby making US a part of the company. Like I always say...we are INVESTING into a company because we give them money, our time AND advise how to improve their product saving them a lot of testing...if only they would listen and DO something about it. Ok...time to add Sibelius to my archive of Encore and Finale. Just on the side note, programmers like those at StaffPad and Dorico, are the future. THEY are motivated and make things happen. Money grabbing companies will lose in the end as the world economy worsens all the time and people can just not afford to waste money...and music software is NOT cheap. Dorico is going to cost me a lot (R10 000), but in the end, I believe, it will be worth it. UNLESS (of course), if AVID starts playing a better game. PS. I'm not bitter or taking this personally. I just want to spend government (and personal) money on a company that will provide for our needs for at least 15 - 20 years, giving us what WE want. :-) -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, StaffPad, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, MuseScore 2, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Jun 02:25PM Hide picture @ Hans +1 -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Hans Nel - 10 Jun 08:04AM Hide picture > > Let's see what the three-year plans will look like, but they'll have to be pretty attractive to get people to hang on to Sibelius for three years, in which time Dorico will surely be roaring into the distance. > > And so most likely will "down market" options like Musescore, if the development plans they have already announced come to fruition. > > And whatever the financial deal is, you are also making a bet that Avid will survive for three years to actually provide the support. > > -- > Rob > > Sib 4.1, Windows 10. AND...don't forget about Overture 5! THIS one looks to me that it's going to be one of the big role players as well. It is a DAW-Notator hybrid...which is what I always wanted Sibelius to be. Check it out...https://sonicscores.com/overture/ -- Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, 64bit OS (Windows 10), Sibelius 8, StaffPad, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Encore, MuseScore 2, Studio One 3, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra waiting eagerly to add Steinberg to this list. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 12:05AM Hide picture The ironic part is that music teacher are probably making a better living than most pro musicians. If anyone deserves a discount... Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by jay vilnai - 21 May 04:24PM Hide picture Hi Sam I too am glad to hear about the new academic pricing. I purchased Sibelius on an education license and have upgraded on education pricing several times. I'm wondering what kind of verification Avid will be looking for this time around. These days I do not teach at an academic institution but work as a teaching artist through a well-established and well-loved NYC institution. Will that qualify me for education pricing? What kind of proof would I need to present? Thanks -- Jay Vilnai Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz, 16GB RAM, 750GB 7200RPM HD, OS 10.11.5 and 10.7.5, Sibelius 7.1.3, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, Pianoteq too many guitars Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 20 May 05:58PM (edited 20 May 07:45PM) Hide picture > However, if you're in education, we are keeping the renewal and upgrade prices at $89 for student and teachers, and $29 per seat for schools with multi-seat licenses, affectively removing the deadline. Sam> Very cool Sam, to allow this relief to educational seats! The younger market is more likely to make a choice in purchasing a new music composition app in the near future than I. This comes from speaking to students and others . . . almost any adult that composes music has chosen their app (Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Musescore, Logic, etc.), or is going to stick to pencil and paper. I want to thank you and Joe for putting in the "deactivate" link in the App Man as I asked as in screenshot. I always want the option to stop paying automatically yearly or monthly for anything, but I also appreciate that auto-payment is set up so I don't have to worry about renewal. That means if Sibelius falls below the level I need to arrange and compose (that looks unlikely as of late) or a much better application comes on the market that is competitive price-wise, I am not "forced" to pay for Sibelius, but could simply leave and purchase what I please. ---- Odds are I will own both Sibelius and Dorico if enough students and clients also purchase Dorico, however, their crossover price leaves something to be desired, something I haven't mentioned to Daniel, as he doesn't control the pricing, and just to enter the market against Finale and Sibelius, is a bold move: €299* – Special time-limited crossgrade pricing for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users. This is $335.31 US Dollars For US citizens the price is about $299 US Dollars as we dont pay VAT http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/steinberg-announces-dorico-availability-in-q4-2016/ To upgrade from Sibelius to Finale is $149. Crossgrade to Sibelius (from Finale, Notion etc.): $199 Though for US: (Quick internet search. If any of these figures are wrong . . . pls correct them for me.) ----- I used to upgrade Sibelius every 2nd year at the cost of $139.00. That was $70/yr. It is now $89/yr. Nineteen dollars more a year seems a reasonable increase, if it helps to pay for the salaries of the teams and offices necessary to continue development of Sibelius. Thanks again for staying in touch! -- Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM [email protected] http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale Attachment De-Activate.png (36K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 20 May 06:39PM Hide picture I wonder if Avid have the confidence in their Sibelius product to defer the deadline for a few months! -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 20 May 06:42PM Hide picture > I wonder if Avid have the confidence in their Sibelius product to defer the deadline for a few months! > They rather seem to have the confidence NOT to defer the deadline! Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 20 May 07:04PM Hide picture This is for Sam or Joe. After my initial purchase of Sibelius years ago using my education credentials I have had to purchase the normal upgrade at the than pricing for anyone else that was upgrading. So to my question will be to you "if I qualify now and into the future and at some point suspend my current $89.00 upgrade plan and than come on again using my still current educational credentials will I only have to pay $89.00?" -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 06:59PM Hide picture >I also appreciate that auto-payment is set up so I don't have to worry about renewal. > I had asked about this in the past, again for which I never received an answer-- what kind of security is provided for by AVID being trusted with our credit card information? In detail please? Sorry but with rampant identity theft, and with AVID'S track record with financial doings (NASDAQ delisting, SEC and DOJ problems, and its very low stock value, and recent new huge loan-$105 Million, and layoffs/closings to the tune of 68 Million) for me anyways this is VERY important to be made known. Thanks >That means if Sibelius falls below the level I need to arrange and compose (that looks unlikely as of late) or a much better application comes on the market that is competitive price-wise, I am not "forced" to pay for Sibelius, but could simply leave and purchase what I please. > A minor point, but I note that if you left before your year was up, you dont get any money back..and much more importantly, if you try and later rejoin you have to fork over $299, (the same cost of an entirely new program, Dorico) plus $89 a year after that.. > €299* – Special time-limited crossgrade pricing for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users. This is $335.31 US Dollar To upgrade from Sibelius to Finale is $149. Crossgrade to Sibelius (from Finale, Notion etc.): $199 (Quick internet search. If any of these figures are wrong . . . pls correct them for me.) > https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/dorico.html "€299* – Special time-limited crossgrade pricing for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users * Based on official Steinberg SRP pricing including 19% German VAT. Prices may vary depending on regions. Final prices are determined by the respective dealer. Final terms and conditions and qualifying software for the time-limited crossgrade price will be communicated before release. All features, specifications, and pricing details are subject to change." IOW this isn't set in stone. And correction, its about $299 US Dollars as we dont pay VAT http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/steinberg-announces-dorico-availability-in-q4-2016/ And I note its a TOTALLY new program, being built from the ground up, by the very BEST team in the world.. Its a fair price for the years of R&D, that went into it and most importantly the team and people behind it. And as an added bonus..NO SUBSCRIPTIONS:) YMMV of course. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 07:07PM Hide picture > used to upgrade Sibelius every 2nd year at the cost of $139.00. That was $70/yr. It is now $89/yr. Nineteen dollars more a year seems a reasonable increase, if it helps to pay for the salaries of the teams and offices necessary to continue development of Sibelius. > Im sorry--this seems to be asking for loyalty to AVID, when by these very draconian punishments for not subscribing or subscribing and then falling off the wagon, and wanting to get back on it hurts the old time loyal user so much more? You know those loyal old time users who already have purchased Sib, and by their word of mouth, ther music and their answering questions on the forum over many years sold MANY copies of Sib..??? Sorry, NOT buying it for ANY price:) And since you brought it up--it's not really fair to judge the past versions of Sib and what we got for our money with what we get now..for example, along these lines Joe had written this: >Let's not forget, for example, that Sibelius 7 required no less than six patch updates to bring it to 7.1.3, which many consider to be a very stable release. >I just want to add that my reason for using Sib 7.0 as an example is not to criticise those efforts (from an insiders point of view, I happen to know that at least one of those releases was in fact driven by internal factors rather than a particular need for bug fixes). > Well,in all fairness, these were the features of Sib 7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibelius_%28software%29#Versions Sibelius 7 (July 2011), with a new ribbon-based user interface,[8] native 64-bit support, a 38GB professional sound library including specialised playing techniques, advanced text and typographic handling, enhanced graphics import/export, MusicXML export, Finale-compatible note input, and various other improvements. > Thats a HUGE, meaty update, released 2 yrs after Sib 6. And Im surprised it only took that few updates to get it to be stable--according to Joe 5, actually one less than the original 6 he had said as he also said one wasnt really for needed bug fixes. And heres Sib 5 and 6: Sibelius 5 (June 2007), with support for VST effects and instruments, a new sample library (Sibelius Sounds Essentials), 'Panorama' view, and numerous other new features. This version added importing of MusicXML files, but dropped importing files from RISC OS versions of Sibelius.[7] Sibelius 6 (May 2009), featuring 'Magnetic Layout' (comprehensive score object positioning and collision avoidance), 'Versions' (revision control of changes made to a score), keyboard and fretboard windows, Live Tempo (recordable tempo changes), ReWire support, input via microphone, and various other notation and playback enhancements. Paying $139 every two years was WELL worth it then..and we WERENT forced and faced with punishment if we didnt upgrade then decided to later or not at all. So please at the very least be fair. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Peter Roos - 20 May 08:14PM Hide picture Thanks Sam ... that is a considerable concession versus the earlier pricing. Now if two years down the road people have seconds thoughts after seeing a new version, the price to "get back on board" is not quite as prohibitive. As a goodwill gesture towards long term users, I think it is a fair gesture (even though for some folks it's still too high). I wonder if Avid will do the same for other programs (Media Composer, Pro Tools) ... -- Peter Roos www.summeroflovemusic.com IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 20 May 08:29PM (edited 20 May 10:04PM) Hide picture > A minor point, but I note that if you left before your year was up, you dont get any money back..and much more importantly, if you try and later rejoin you have to fork over $299, (the same cost of an entirely new program, Dorico) plus $89 a year after that..> Then I would set up auto-payment, plus at some point, on this forum, Joe or Sam said they would make special exceptions to people who missed the deadline. (I joined early with Sib 8 once I saw an effort to improve it was being made.) ======== > And correction, its about $299 US Dollars as we dont pay VAT http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/steinberg-announces-dorico-availability-in-q4-2016/ Thank you Bob . . . I've made that correction. ======== >And I note its a TOTALLY new program, being built from the ground up, by the very BEST team in the world..> That is absolutely true, but I've taken Daniel to task (not on a daily basis) for not paying attention to the needs of pop, rock and jazz musicians as much as chorale and classical musicians. And I will reserve the right to so so with Sam and Joe, but I see nothing but courtesy and respect from them even when asked repeatedly to change the pricing of Sibelius (something that they don't have as much control over as people may think . . . just as Daniel says he'll mention pricing to Steinberg) or change a deadline. Sibelius is in business. And most businesses don’t allow access to the people building and developing the product . . . I consider myself very lucky to have access to Daniel, Joe, and Sam, and know they are busy people, with jobs and responsibilities, and will ask once or twice if something can be done . . . but won’t make it my occupation. —- Some of the people in American history that have used chord symbols while they performed were: Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Harry James, James Brown, James Taylor, Artie Shaw, The Beatles, and on and on. I wasn't surprised that chords were the omission in Dorico. “Fill Selection w/Slash Notes” and “Make Pitches Constant” arrived around the time of Sib 5 as plugins. —- The Key Signature being on every single stave is not how it is done in the Sinatra or Bennett band or any other big band I've played in. Sibelius still doesn't have the choice to put KS on upper staff only. —- The Newer Chords in Sibelius I and others have called “half-finished. I still HAVE to use Legacy Chords and would like to use the Newer Chords but they are lacking and complex to work. —- I just think people should get back to work writing and arranging and a little less complaining. If that energy were spent composing, the result would have been the equivalent of “War and Peace" musically by now. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 20 May 10:09PM Hide picture Hi Richie-- >Then I would set up auto-payment, Your reply to what I wrote above that got this reply from you makes no sense to me Richie--?? But concerning auto payment with AVID holding everyones credit info ..for a year or more....or ANY time at l'll think that QUITE unwise, and I keep asking for specifics about this--the security measures taken, etc. >I just think people should get back to work writing and arranging and a little less complaining. If that energy were spent composing, the result would have been the “War and Peace’ of music by now. Ive pointed it out before Richie but perhaps you didnt see it. I know others have as they now remark about this happening "on BOTH sides." Some are doing EXACTLY what they keep criticizing others for, and keep pointing a finger at, just on the other side of the coin. IMO, one might seem overtly harsh, and says TONS are problematic but is honest..and one might seem overtly kind, but refuses to really see ANY problems, and says EVERYTHING is fine. A final thought on this is-- if everything WERE so fine, there wouldnt be ANY need for subscription plans--with todays slashed prices-- or these discussions, etc.. People wouldnt need to be strong armed into subscribing. They werent in the past, got really MEATY updates, and bought Sib willingly, with NO penalty if they didnt. Thanks for replying Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 21 May 12:15AM Hide picture > > However, if you're in education, we are keeping the renewal and upgrade prices at $89 for student and teachers, and $29 per seat for schools with multi-seat licenses, affectively removing the deadline. Sam> > > Very cool Sam, to allow this relief to educational seats! The younger market is more likely to make a choice in purchasing a new music composition app in the near future than I. > > This comes from speaking to students and others . . . almost any adult that composes music has chosen their app (Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Musescore, Logic, etc.), or is going to stick to pencil and paper. > > I want to thank you and Joe for putting in the "deactivate" link in the App Man as I asked as in screenshot. I always want the option to stop paying automatically yearly or monthly for anything, but I also appreciate that auto-payment is set up so I don't have to worry about renewal. > > That means if Sibelius falls below the level I need to arrange and compose (that looks unlikely as of late) or a much better application comes on the market that is competitive price-wise, I am not "forced" to pay for Sibelius, but could simply leave and purchase what I please. > ---- > Odds are I will own both Sibelius and Dorico if enough students and clients also purchase Dorico, however, their crossover price leaves something to be desired, something I haven't mentioned to Daniel, as he doesn't control the pricing, and just to enter the market against Finale and Sibelius, is a bold move: > > €299* – Special time-limited crossgrade pricing for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users. This is $335.31 US Dollars > > For US citizens the price is about $299 US Dollars as we dont pay VAT http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/steinberg-announces-dorico-availability-in-q4-2016/ > > To upgrade from Sibelius to Finale is $149. > Crossgrade to Sibelius (from Finale, Notion etc.): $199 > Though for US: > > (Quick internet search. If any of these figures are wrong . . . pls correct them for me.) > ----- > I used to upgrade Sibelius every 2nd year at the cost of $139.00. That was $70/yr. It is now $89/yr. Nineteen dollars more a year seems a reasonable increase, if it helps to pay for the salaries of the teams and offices necessary to continue development of Sibelius. > > Thanks again for staying in touch! > -- > Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User > iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM > [email protected] > http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale I believe that is only an authorize/deauthorize for your Sibelius installation and not a stop payment option. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Attachment Authorize deauthorize.png (27K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 21 May 01:33AM (edited 21 May 01:33AM) Hide picture Thx Ralph, If it's not accessible for me to switch auto-payment off/on and find easily, I'll contact Joe and Sam and politely ask (again) that we have that option made available. It is not the most important thing on my bucket list for Sibelius, since I'm pretty happy with the improvements being made, but still, auto-payment should be easy to turn on and off, as I can do it with any of my credit cards. -- Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM [email protected] http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 01:46AM Hide picture > If it's not accessible for me to switch auto-payment off/on and find easily, I'll contact Joe and Sam and politely ask (again) that we have that option made available. I thought this was settled, at least partly ? http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=696419&groupid=3&words=renew&name=Sam%20@%20Sibelius#696429 "For question 4, the auto-renewal options are there for monthly and annual subscriptions already, and these will be on if you bought a subscription via out webstore, or off of you bought it from a reseller. It can be toggled in your Avid Account. What IT are working on is implementing the renewal of upgrade and support plans that are attached to perpetual licenses. We'll make this option available as soon as they are ready (I have daily calls with IT and the work is going well)." So perpetual licenses still dont have the option of turning of auto renew, or am I misunderstanding? Thanks Bob PS And again, along these lines--sorry to repeat myself but what security measures are there for all the credit card info of Sib users, being held for auto renewal? -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 21 May 04:44AM Hide picture Yes, I'm looking for an on/off for automatic payment of a yearly perpetual license Bob. Thx! -- Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM [email protected] http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 09:42AM Hide picture You're welcome Richie-- I also think this is important so that no one who is subscribing now, without having this button at the time of subscription, as is usually done, may be prone to then forget later when its finally added, and be subscribed automatically, when that might not be their intent. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 11:47AM Hide picture Calm down! No need to panic over hypothetical cock-ups. As with "lost" registrations and occasions when someone has bought the "wrong" upgrade, such things will be able to be sorted out. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 11:57AM (edited 21 May 11:57AM) Hide picture >Calm down! No need to panic over hypothetical cock-ups. Thanks, but totally unnecessary as no one was excited Laurence, and no one is panicking, or anything--simply discussing. And the problem might not be so easily solved if you dont realize for lets say 6-8 weeks, or more, after using a yearly renewal, that you were auto renewed, and didnt want to be. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 12:00PM Hide picture Attachment FRAZER+WE+ARE+ALL+DOOMED.jpg (34K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 21 May 12:09PM Hide picture I also think the suggestion laughable that the issues that Avid had re their listing on NASDAQ and other corporate financial dealings can be linked in any way to their ability to manage a customer database. Look, we are where we are. I think kudos should be given to the team that there has been a change in pricing policy. It might not be everything we want, but it is at least something. And we should be fair and recognise that. I was vocal at the time of the initial announcement of the licensing changes (not on here particularly, but I wrote a very critical blog post that went around a fair bit), but I call it as I see it and whilst the current pricing system isn't what I would necessarily have as a first choice, it is clearly the current Avid policy across all their products (so it's not just Sibelius users who are being 'targeted' in some way) and we are now seeing updates to the product beyond toying with the interface (which is all 8.0 did, really). I look forward to seeing future updates and when I do come to pay my $89 to update to 8.x at the end of June, I will find some of the new features very useful (in my workflows, the rests feature and the sliding notes feature will be the ones most useful to me, along with the tidying up of repeat lines and repeat barlines). I will be purchasing Dorico as a cross grade, as it will clearly be a really cool product. Daniel & co obviously have a huge amount of experience and knowledge, and it will be fascinating to see the new paradigm without any legacy code or need to support a legacy way of working. I really do think that it will be a game changer. But I think it would be a brave man to detach themselves completely from Sibelius right away - I certainly see myself using both programs for quite a while (if not in perpetuity), as Dorico settles down in terms of features and stability - plus, I have over a decade's worth of projects within Sibelius that I am very happy to keep within that program. Here's to a bit of healthy competition - I think that after a few years of the industry being relatively dormant, what with Avid's and MakeMusic's restructurings, we can now see things moving on again, with Dorico as a major new player but also with a team within Avid who are beginning to get to grips with the Sibelius codebase and delivering useful features - long may that continue. So long as Avid continues to support that development, then things can only get better as the team get more experienced. As it seems popular to say on here, YMMV, but that's my take on things :) -- Mac Mini, OS X 10.11.4, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 7.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 21 May 12:28PM Hide picture Wot this guy said. ^^^^ -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 21 May 12:32PM Hide picture +1 -- Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM [email protected] http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 21 May 12:38PM Hide picture "Just the facts_____, just the facts." Joe Friday. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Attachment Black Adder.jpg (45K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 01:16PM Hide picture I've seen that face before! Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 12:43PM (edited 21 May 12:45PM) Hide picture >I was vocal at the time of the initial announcement of the licensing changes (not on here particularly, but I wrote a very critical blog post that went around a fair bit), but I call it as I see it Hi Nicholas--Yes I read your article when it came out BEFORE you changed it..was quite some reading!:) > I think kudos should be given to the team that there has been a change in pricing policy. It might not be everything we want, but it is at least something. And we should be fair and recognise that. I do too and did so as part of my post above, while ALSO "calling it as I see it":) http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=697056&groupid=3򪋣 And I agree its NOT everything we want.. >But I think it would be a brave man to detach themselves completely from Sibelius right away - I certainly see myself using both programs for quite a while (if not in perpetuity), as Dorico settles down in terms of features and stability Well believe it or not one of the utmost TOP leaders on Ideascale has ALREADY done JUST that!! But I do agree many will still be using Sib for awhile--except I feel it will be without a subscription, and simply using the version they're using now for free, as Dorico matures. Or even free software. Time will tell:) >I also think the suggestion laughable that the issues that Avid had re their listing on NASDAQ and other corporate financial dealings can be linked in any way to their ability to manage a customer database. Well what you simply dismiss as "laughable", Nicholas is a real security concern-- that for a software company--yes *especially* AVID with ALL its financial mishandlings--to be handling how many thousand of credit card's information, without letting the users know what kind of security is in place to protect this information leaves me uneasy, and NOT laughing.. And yes Nicholas, in closing..YMMV!:) Thanks Bob PS PS And while we're at it, I wonder if your terms "co-k ups" and "t-ts up" as seen above and here http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=695946&groupid=3&words=tits&name=Lyons#696994 are really necessary? I gather theyre English slang but I always double take at their use. -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 21 May 12:54PM Hide picture Hi Bob, Always good to hear from you - I know we don't agree on this matter, so very happy to leave it here without having an argument, as I really respect what you've done for this community over the years, and there's no point just going over old ground again :) I do just want to make clear that the entirety of the article that I wrote in April 2015 is still present - the only alteration made was to include a rebuttal from Sam Butler, which included a key factual change from the initial release of information and a key alteration to what I was writing about, at the head of the article. I only felt that fair, especially as the article continues to be shared and read today. I don't know if your reference to utilisation of those slang terms was aimed at me (it looked as if it was within the context of your post, but I might be mistaken), but I haven't used either of those terms in this thread here, and the link you give is to a thread that I have not even participated in. So I think I'm not guilty here! Apologies if I've misunderstood. All the very best :) -- Mac Mini, OS X 10.11.4, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 7.5.1 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 01:02PM Hide picture +1...:) -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 01:10PM (edited 21 May 01:18PM) Hide picture Hi Nicholas-- Thanks so much for such a kind reply. And always so nice to hear from you too:) >Always good to hear from you - I know we don't agree on this matter, so very happy to leave it here without having an argument, as I really respect what you've done for this community over the years, and there's no point just going over old ground again :) Thanks Nicholas..and right back at you:) >I do just want to make clear that the entirety of the article that I wrote in April 2015 is still present - the only alteration made was to include a rebuttal from Sam Butler, which included a key factual change from the initial release of information and a key alteration to what I was writing about, at the head of the article. I only felt that fair, especially as the article continues to be shared and read today. Thanks, yes I realized that,and I agree it was right to do. I> don't know if your reference to utilisation of those slang terms was aimed at me (it looked as if it was within the context of your post, but I might be mistaken), but I haven't used either of those terms in this thread here, and the link you give is to a thread that I have not even participated in. So I think I'm not guilty here! Apologies if I've misunderstood. No not at all to you Nicholas--apologies if it seemed that way. Sorry it was unclear. >All the very best :) And to you also Nicholas:) Thanks again Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Neil Macintyre - 21 May 01:20PM (edited 21 May 01:22PM) Hide picture Not really slang in a bad sense, just informal speech in Britain. Like Trump, some of us call a spade a spade. Often heard it used in the media when a new government initiative goes completely wrong, for example. Def. from an Oxford dictionary British informal Something done badly or inefficiently: ‘we’ve made a total cock-up of it’ More example sentences ‘If you took all my mistakes and cock-ups in my life and laid them out in a line, you would say this guy is the most stupid and inept person ever.’ ‘The most incredible feature of this success is that he has achieved it after so many cock-ups, mistakes and bad calls.’ ‘To those hacks like me who find life littered, as it were, with cock-ups rather than conspiracies, this is rather more plausible.’ http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cock-up Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 21 May 01:36PM Hide picture And not particularly vulgar, either. I didn't really understand Bob's complaint, either in or out of context Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 02:07PM Hide picture > And not particularly vulgar, either. I didn't really understand Bob's complaint, either in or out of context Hi Stephen- Because its slang in Britain and acceptable in some situations, that doesnt make it especially proper for younger people viewing the forum or even for those like myself who might think its really not needed, when there are SO many more terms that could be used. There was an incident in the past with one of these posters, again using a most questionable term, British slang, and a mother being very upset about her daughter seeing this on the forum. The entire thread was removed by Sam IIRC, and as a parent I especially can feel her concern. If I used some of the Bronx slang I grew up with or anyone else from other than England did, and tried to excuse it on the grounds it was slang and in the dictionary..well it simply wouldnt work:) Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Rob Tuley - 22 May 03:05AM (edited 22 May 03:06AM) Hide picture > Because its slang in Britain and acceptable in some situations, that doesnt make it especially proper for younger people viewing the forum ... Bob, outside of your own backyard, the attitude you are taking is called "American Cultural Imperialism," and in case you hadn't noticed, the rest of the world doesn't much like it. You can easily find the term "cock-up" used in many quality British newspapers and periodcials, like the Economist, Guardian, Telegraph, Independent, etc. I can't be bothered to list references, to all of them, but Google will soon find them if your don't believe me. You can even find it on a page of the "learn English" section of the British Council's website. I case you never heard of the BC, it is "The United Kingdom's international organisation for cultural relations and educational opportunities." - founded more than 70 years ago, and funded by the British Government. If some prissy American doesn't like British English, they can go to hades (and take their 300m fellow-citizens with them) so far as I'm concerned. If Sam (as a former employee of Sibelius and now of Avid) wants to censor this forum for some reason, I don't have any problem with that. But if some Yank that I've never met (and never want to) starts telling foreigners what they can and can't do, that's another matter. Unlike this one, at least the Dorico forum has an "ignore user" option. Next time I'm there, I'll probably use it. -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 22 May 03:20AM Hide picture > > Because its slang in Britain and acceptable in some situations, that doesnt make it especially proper for younger people viewing the forum ... > > > If some prissy American doesn't like British English, they can go to hades (and take their 300m fellow-citizens with them) so far as I'm concerned. > > If Sam (as a former employee of Sibelius and now of Avid) wants to censor this forum for some reason, I don't have any problem with that. But if some Yank that I've never met (and never want to) starts telling foreigners what they can and can't do, that's another matter. > > Unlike this one, at least the Dorico forum has an "ignore user" option. Next time I'm there, I'll probably use it. > > -- > Rob > > Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Rob--your intent is to start trouble with stuff like this. And youre blatantly mistaken--or deliberately misrepresenting the truth, for whatever your reasons. I expressed my opinion and said leave it to the heads of the forum. Again I quote for your benefit: >Ive made my feelings known, and whatever is judged ok by the heads of the forum, we'll all live with. We can agree to disagree:) > So re read what I wrote. And calm down.. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Robert Enns - 21 May 01:13PM Hide picture I have various online subscriptions such as The Economist, Scientific American, etc. and Anazon has my data because I regularly get books and other items. So my Visa data has lots of exposure and these places potentially can be hacked or in some way compromised. Now am I going to spend any time worrying about that? Why would I? I'd be in a constant state of wondering and worrying. What I do is check my online bank Visa items regularly. If any items aren't mine I tell the credit card company. My mother had her card data (not the actual card) stolen somewhere and Visa had no problem reimbursing her. New card necessary of course but no money lost. Actually currently they really do notice before you do since their software is really very good at noticing purchases that aren't likely to be yours. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.2 Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 01:41PM Hide picture Hi Robert >Now am I going to spend any time worrying about that? Why would I? THIS is why: > My mother had her card data (not the actual card) stolen somewhere and Visa had no problem reimbursing her. New card necessary of course but no money lost. Its to prevent what happened to your grandmother, and the hassle of getting another card, and being without one for however long that takes- but MOST importantly--one has to KNOW that an illegal purchase has been made for it to be reported and reimbursed. And if one is on a fixed budget and low income this can really create hardships, until its reimbursed.. And all that's being asked for, in addition to giving perpetual users the ability to turn off auto renewal, which they're still working on, is a description of the security measures in place here at AVID in place for this. I, like your grandmother, and countless others have been burned, and after that, one becomes MUCH more security and safety minded. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 01:59PM (edited 21 May 02:08PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 21 May 02:15PM Hide picture I have to say, think that's a bit censorious, Bob - the 'cock' in 'cock-up' isn't a penis, if that's what you're thinking. I'm sure we all know plenty of colourful language which we know is inappropriate here (and I well remember the thread you mention) but I think we should be careful of censoring phrases just because they might possibly have a double meaning. This one was used in Parliament fairly recently (although not, it appears, in Nicholas's post). Anyway, back to the topic :) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 02:34PM Hide picture >I have to say, think that's a bit censorious, Bob Maybe, for you but sorry I sill disagree. Younger people who might not know its acceptable slang to some and ONLY know the the other, sexual definitions of the words involved, and see it could easily be upset. Ive made my feelings known, and whatever is judged ok by the heads of the forum, we'll all live with. We can agree to disagree:) >(and I well remember the thread you mention) It was horrible. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 02:40PM (edited 21 May 02:41PM) Hide picture It wasn't horrible. Full disclosure: I posted a musical example using the instruments "Siberian Nose Flute" and "Abyssinian A**e Trumpet". The letters "r" and "s" were included. This was considered too shocking for young ears and I duly sat on the naughty step until breaktime. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 21 May 02:55PM (edited 21 May 03:17PM) Hide picture Ok Bob, I really don't want to get into a fight - or should that be slanging match? - but, just to make the point, your post contained the words "know". "known", "the other", "made" and "head". All of these words may have a sexual connotation - in context. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 03:08PM Hide picture >Ok Bob, I really don't want to get into a fight - or should that be slanging match? - but, just to make the point, your post contained the words "know". "known", "made" and "head". All of these words may have a sexual connotation - in context. Hi Stephen-- I dont understand why this is still going on?? And it sure SOUNDS like you want a fight, Stephen..er sorry, slanging match..:) Why couldnt it have ended with what I wrote above? >Ive made my feelings known, and whatever is judged ok by the heads of the forum, we'll all live with. We can agree to disagree:) > And youre really reaching with your examples. They really don't work at all for me. OR win any slanging contest:) So..again: Ive made my feelings known, and whatever is judged ok by the heads of the forum, we'll all live with. We can agree to disagree:) (Hopefully it'll work THIS time..its all been said already:) Thanks for the discussion Stephen.. Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Robert Enns - 21 May 03:40PM Hide picture What could Avid say about their data protection that would make you feel better? Banks have been hacked recently let alone other companies. All try to protect their customers data but there can never be a guarantee. Criminals are always one step ahead and always will be. The only sure protection is vigilance on our part by checking our bank regularly. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.2 Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 04:04PM Hide picture Well,they could start off with an full explanation of exactly WHAT is in place to protect our credit information. Thats NOT such a huge request, or a big deal, so Im lost as to why your so against this. And Ive already went into the reasons why. And why arent people who are handing out their most important credit information to, in this case AVID, allowed to know what kind of protection there is for their credit card info? >Banks have been hacked recently let alone other companies. All try to protect their customers data but there can never be a guarantee. Criminals are always one step ahead and always will be. The only sure protection is vigilance on our part by checking our bank regularly. So there IS cause for concern, then along with your Grandmother's credit card information being stolen, and my bad experience. So again why are you so against this? Truthfully you keep making my case for me by pointing out how prevalent theft of this information is, and who is getting hurt by credit card info being stolen. This and my last post summed it all up, so Im lost as to why youre so against this, or what else you want me to say. Thanks Bob PS And oh yeah, one more thing--they can ASSURE me that the guy who did the books that caused them to get delisted, WONT be within a 1000 miles of this information :) -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by LittleReg1 - 21 May 06:17PM Hide picture There are always *two* elements to a transaction, not just one: the quality of the product and the price. This massive thread deals only with the latter. My problem with the pricing plans has little to do with the money - it's more about what you get for it. I've found Avid's technical support to be of only very base value. Nearly all the time they've instead referred me to these forums where folks have kindly taken their time to provide instruction and opinions, but since none of them is overly familiar with the application architecture, the results I've received have been mixed, as could only be expected. If I received true technical and interface support instead of having to go to blogs and Google, not only would I pay the $299 one time, but I would pay it *each year*. It's worth that much to me. It seems from the tone of these threads, however, that folks have given up on the notion of a software vendor providing first-class service of its products. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Peter McAleer - 21 May 06:29PM Hide picture I wish I could feel positive about this. But. Too little too late and it doesn’t address the insulting treatment of users expected to pay up-front, on a promise, for software that has delivered practically nothing over last 3 or more years. For me it makes more fiscal sense to keep my money – Sibelius as is, for good, on legacy machines, and put that money into new hardware, ready for Dorico’s release. What a shambles Avid is; there is no way I am throwing any money in that direction. -- Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user Sibelius 7.5; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.10.5 ('Yosemite') Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob K - 21 May 07:32PM Hide picture >>I wish I could feel positive about this. But. Too little too late and it doesn’t address the insulting treatment of users expected to pay up-front, on a promise, for software that has delivered practically nothing over last 3 or more years.<< +1 If I subscribe, it'll be reluctantly, but unless I'm able and willing to "freeze" my computer system in its current state (i.e., stop upgrading software), I'll be forced to do so at some point. The notion of switching to Dorico has been appealing from day one (i.e., when Daniel started blogging about it three years ago), but as a jazz musician, I won't be able to use the initial release because it'll lack chord symbols. And depending on how well files convert over to Dorico (via Music XML), I might have to keep Sibelius around for a while. -- Bob K Sibelius 7.51, Mac Pro 8-Core 2.26 GHz 'Nehalem', 16 GB RAM, OS 10.10.5 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Robert Enns - 21 May 07:32PM Hide picture I'm not against asking. I just wonder what they could say beyond http://www.avid.com/legal/privacy-policy-statement that would make you feel more secure. And that's not being against anything. And my real point is that no matter what they have said or could say one has to still be vigilant. That's all. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, and Sibelius 8.2 Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, GPO5 Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 09:36PM Hide picture Hi Robert-- Thanks for this--best I can glean: > Specific Services This site may provide certain additional, optional services that may use additional security measures to protect the information, such as financial information, provided by you to obtain the service. Those additional security measures may vary, depending upon the particular service offered. You will be informed of any specific security measures at the time you register for a particular service. Please review that information for further detail. This seems to be what Im asking, and the answer to this the answer Im seeking. and being vigilant is what this is all about! Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 May 10:04PM Hide picture Thanks for making this change, Sam. It is a much better deal than it was before. -- Bob An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 8, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2016. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 21 May 10:19PM (edited 21 May 10:21PM) Hide picture >Posted by Peter McAleer - 21 May 06:29PM I wish I could feel positive about this. But. Too little too late and it doesn’t address the insulting treatment of users expected to pay up-front, on a promise, for software that has delivered practically nothing over last 3 or more years. For me it makes more fiscal sense to keep my money – Sibelius as is, for good, on legacy machines, and put that money into new hardware, ready for Dorico’s release. What a shambles Avid is; there is no way I am throwing any money in that direction. >Posted by Bob K - 21 May 07:32PM >>I wish I could feel positive about this. But. Too little too late and it doesn’t address the insulting treatment of users expected to pay up-front, on a promise, for software that has delivered practically nothing over last 3 or more years.<< >+1 +1 Thanks so much Pete--so very well said:) Thanks Bob PS: >Posted by LittleReg1 - 21 May 06:17PM There are always *two* elements to a transaction, not just one: the quality of the product and the price. This massive thread deals only with the latter. My problem with the pricing plans has little to do with the money - it's more about what you get for it. I've found Avid's technical support to be of only very base value. - SO many many people have said this, and most like myself just completely skip technical support one would now be paying for, in lieu of the forum here. I honestly cant remember the last time I asked support a technical question. This forum which is free, saves AVID a ton of money they would be using for technical support, and the users provides genuine EXCELLENT help. I am proud of the time I was part of providing that help, but stopped in protest of what AVID is doing. Special kudos to Robin Walker, among others, who really knows his stuff. Its scary but sometimes he answers posts without any of the needed info actually in the users post..! I would add that I have found support in matters of registration activation, licensing etc to be very good, and Vee, also to be really good in trying to help users get help. But its VERY rare--near non-existent that I actually read ANY praise for ANY kind of technical support provided by AVID, and reports of no one answering the phone, very long waits, etc are heard much more instead. And Peter's post above -"too little, too late" really seems to sum it up. -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 22 May 09:58AM (edited 22 May 09:58AM) Hide picture The Steinberg forums have this feature: "Friends and Foes lists. You can use these lists to organise other members of the board. Members added to your friends list will be listed within your User Control Panel for quick access to see their online status and to send them private messages. Subject to template support, posts from these users may also be highlighted. If you add a user to your foes list, any posts they make will be hidden by default." As always, those who announce loudly that they are blocking someone won't have, because they enjoy the conflict :-) But the mods of the Cubase list have been known to throw off serial ranters. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Philip Jones - 02 Jun 10:02PM Hide picture I know I'm a bit late joining in on this, but I cannot see the sense in the $299 penalty for not renewing on schedule every year. $89 a year is a decent price to pay for regular updates. If you don't renew, then you don't get any more updates until you do. If you miss 2 years, then you pay 2x$89 to get back in line. Surely that is the best incentive to keep up to date, provided that there are regular updates. Suddenly dumping a $299 charge for late payment is the best way I can think of to annoy customers so that they jump ship via a cross-grade to another program for about the same price. And if anyone is unfortunate enough to miss it in two successive years ....... Daft ! -- Sib 6.2 upgrade build 88, Sibelius Player Essentials, Sibelius Sounds Gold, Kontakt Player available. Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Audio mode. Vista SP2, ASUS P5B-VM motherboard, 3GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 1GB DDR2, 250GB SATA. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 Jun 04:49PM Hide picture >Posted by Philip Jones - 02 Jun 10:02PM I know I'm a bit late joining in on this, but I cannot see the sense in the $299 penalty for not renewing on schedule every year. $89 a year is a decent price to pay for regular updates. If you don't renew, then you don't get any more updates until you do. If you miss 2 years, then you pay 2x$89 to get back in line. Surely that is the best incentive to keep up to date, provided that there are regular updates. Suddenly dumping a $299 charge for late payment is the best way I can think of to annoy customers so that they jump ship via a cross-grade to another program for about the same price. And if anyone is unfortunate enough to miss it in two successive years ....... Daft ! > +1 -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 04 Jun 07:15PM Hide picture > ... Suddenly dumping a $299 charge for late payment is the best way I can think of to annoy customers so that they jump ship via a cross-grade to another program for about the same price. Avid has been trying to annoy customers for several years now. This just their latest attempt, but I doubt it's the "best" way. I suspect, with a little more research, Avid will certainly find an even better way. -- Patrick O'Keefe Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff Win10 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 05 Jun 06:19PM Hide picture +1 You're a VERY wise man Pat ;-) Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Russell H - 05 Jun 08:40PM Hide picture Bob, why do you do that for every post that's slightly critical of Sibelius or Avid? -- Sibelius 8 Mac and Win Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 05 Jun 09:10PM Hide picture Hi Russell I do it for ANY post that I agree with..the +1 is a shorthand for basically that you agree with something. Thats all--nothing more, nothing less. And I see it MANY times in threads that are overly supportive of AVID..so maybe it goes both ways? Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 09 Jun 02:25PM Hide picture > This forum which is free, saves AVID a ton of money they would be using for technical support Just not true. I'm fed up with seeing this. The backend server architecture that runs this forum is non-trivial and expensive to maintain and run. That's without even considering the salaries of those that maintain and contribute to it. It's precisely because I believe it to be such a great resource for users that Sam and I have gone to the trouble of keeping its profile high amongst our colleagues. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 09 Jun 03:02PM Hide picture > > This forum which is free, saves AVID a ton of money they would be using for technical support > > Just not true. I'm fed up with seeing this. > I dont understand this, Joe-- if the kind users here didnt help for free the very large numbers of people needing assistance, here, and on other forums and people STILL needed help-- What would happen? Theyd go to AVID support. No? And the point was that it would seem AVID support wouldnt be able to handle the number of people needing help then, and would need to hire more people. Thats all that was being said Joe..nothing else. And a shout out was being given to those who DO answer here. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 10 Jun 01:16PM Hide picture You miss my point. There's no doubt that the worth of of any forum is measured by its users. My objection is to the idea that we somehow purposefully offload support onto the forum so that we can save money (or otherwise benefit commercially from the hard work and expertise of the forum users). For a start - we don't save money. Actually it costs us a lot in time, effort and money to keep this up. Secondly, I find the notion that one would would criticise a company for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ridiculous. To suggest otherwise makes for a flawed argument, and is little more than opportunistic sniping. Please stop. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Jun 02:16PM Hide picture > You miss my point. There's no doubt that the worth of of any forum is measured by its users. This is agreed, Joe. Thanks. > > My objection is to the idea that we somehow purposefully offload support onto the forum so that we can save money (or otherwise benefit commercially from the hard work and expertise of the forum users). See, Joe, sorry to say but your doing this again--NO ONE said that. Lets be honest and fair and stick to whats written. Thanks so much. > > For a start - we don't save money. Actually it costs us a lot in time, effort and money to keep this up. Secondly, I find the notion that one would would criticise a company for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ridiculous. > See Joe? AGAIN..NO ONE said this..only you, sorry to say. > To suggest otherwise makes for a flawed argument, and is little more than opportunistic sniping. Please stop. Well Joe, youve asked me to stop saying things I HAVENT..only YOU are saying them, and trying to make it seem like me. This isnt fair, and to quote you-- "Please stop". Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Russell H - 10 Jun 09:26PM Hide picture Bob, did you just ask the Product Designer to "Please stop"? Ouch. Be careful where you tread with this line. Remember the T's and C's they recently added. R > > You miss my point. There's no doubt that the worth of of any forum is measured by its users. > > This is agreed, Joe. Thanks. > > > > My objection is to the idea that we somehow purposefully offload support onto the forum so that we can save money (or otherwise benefit commercially from the hard work and expertise of the forum users). > > See, Joe, sorry to say but your doing this again--NO ONE said that. Lets be honest and fair and stick to whats written. Thanks so much. > > > > For a start - we don't save money. Actually it costs us a lot in time, effort and money to keep this up. Secondly, I find the notion that one would would criticise a company for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ridiculous. > > > > See Joe? AGAIN..NO ONE said this..only you, sorry to say. > > > To suggest otherwise makes for a flawed argument, and is little more than opportunistic sniping. Please stop. > > Well Joe, youve asked me to stop saying things I HAVENT..only YOU are saying them, and trying to make it seem like me. This isnt fair, and to quote you-- > > "Please stop". > > Thanks Bob > > -- > Bob Morabito > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 > Fin 2014.5 > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD > > https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito -- -- Sibelius 8 Mac and Win Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Jun 10:09PM Hide picture > Bob, did you just ask the Product Designer to "Please stop"? Ouch. > > Be careful where you tread with this line. Remember the T's and C's they recently added. > Thanks Russell, I appreciate your concern, though Im not sure of the Terms and Conditions you speak of. Do you have a link to it? Thanks. And things--actions, reasons etc-- were being wrongfully attributed to me, things I hadn't said, or done, which is just unfair, and I wonder the purpose of it. This has happened happened times before, and I asked for it to be backed up then, with quotes and links, and it wasnt. So yes, I asked for it to please stop, as I have no other choice. I have NO problem explaining or defending something Ive said or done, and providing quotes or links but when someone wrongfully SAYS I said or did something and I didnt, I have to speak up, which I did. And it was respectfully. If you have that link Id appreciate it, so if Im somehow breaking a rule by speaking up and standing up for myself, I'll know about it. Thanks again Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jun 11:31PM (edited 10 Jun 11:32PM) Hide picture Terms & Conditions, as requested. http://www.sibelius.com/forum/advice/terms_of_use.html Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 10 Jun 11:50PM Hide picture > Terms & Conditions, as requested. > > > http://www.sibelius.com/forum/advice/terms_of_use.html "By using these services and posting or transmitting to AVID for posting such Posted Information, you thereby acknowledge and agree that all Posted Information is publicly available to any viewer of the Site." Well this one is a little more obscure (somewhat)....why....(?), because some users don't know how to get into the threads that do not have a title listed for the thread. They, or it's not widely known how to get into them by the casual viewer without the specific knowledge of how to do it. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Jun 12:05AM Hide picture > > Terms & Conditions, as requested. > > > > > > http://www.sibelius.com/forum/advice/terms_of_use.html > And all, hopefully, to be enforced in a spirit of "we reserve the right" rather than a military "one step out of line and you're dead". I think this thread may have to go on the Ignore list now. I don't think I could stand a ten-page analysis of the Conditions, refuting evey clause in turn with an inline comment :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 11 Jun 12:58AM Hide picture > Terms & Conditions, as requested. > > > http://www.sibelius.com/forum/advice/terms_of_use.html Thanks for the link. Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by vintagevibe - 13 Jun 03:04PM Hide picture > You miss my point. There's no doubt that the worth of of any forum is measured by its users. > > My objection is to the idea that we somehow purposefully offload support onto the forum so that we can save money (or otherwise benefit commercially from the hard work and expertise of the forum users). > > For a start - we don't save money. Actually it costs us a lot in time, effort and money to keep this up. Secondly, I find the notion that one would would criticise a company for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ridiculous. > > To suggest otherwise makes for a flawed argument, and is little more than opportunistic sniping. Please stop. > -- > Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius > www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Joe, he clearly did I imply what you are saying even though he is now walking it back. He needs to let it go. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 13 Jun 05:08PM (edited 13 Jun 05:15PM) Hide picture Hi vintagevibe-- These were already addressed, but somehow you may have missed it. I post again for your benefit. > > My objection is to the idea that we somehow purposefully offload support onto the forum so that we can save money (or otherwise benefit commercially from the hard work and expertise of the forum users). This idea was not put forth by me, in any way shape or form, and is a very strange notion at that. If you feel I have then please SHOW me where I said this. And I kindly suggest you reread what I wrote. My point was that almost ALL answers on the forum are furnished by the long time loyal users, and this I feel saves Avid money; and these long time users are the ONLY ones to be burdened with a penalty fee for not subscribing now or falling off the wagon later, while people in education do NOT get punished. This is unfair, and when it was reduced I said it was a good move, but not enough as it really should just be done away with. Nothing more, and nothing less and to say I said anything else is simply untrue, and not appreciated. Thank you. > > > > For a start - we don't save money. Actually it costs us a lot in time, effort and money to keep this up. Again I responded to this, and I STILL feel money is saved as if everyone who freely answers questions here were to stop for some reason then its only common sense that AVID would have to hire more people, to provide the necessary support now being done by the forum. Nothing more and nothing less. >>Secondly, I find the notion that one would would criticise a company for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ridiculous. > > I did not say, nor imply, nor did I criticize AVID for "for creating a forum of like minded users of their product ", and I COMPLETELY agree that this thought is ridiculous. This again, however, did NOT come from me. Again since you feel it did the please show me where I said this. Thank you. Again ALL that was said above simply didnt come from me, and I take umbrage to suggest it did, and said so , and now say again. I did NOT, nor do I imply anything--I state clearly with links and quotes, and request the same when Im accused of something. >> Joe, he clearly did I imply what you are saying even though he is now walking it back. He needs to let it go. Nothing of the sort was stated or implied, nor am I "walking it back". According to this "T and C" that was posted it seems that ALL criticism of AVID, is to completely stop etc. It thats the rules, then that's sad, for all of us. I quote that T and C: "Avid reserves the right to remove posts or restrict the posting privileges of individuals that exhibit a clear agenda designed to slander, insult, or otherwise undermine Avid, its employees, our development partners, or any other company or individual. New accounts are not allowed for an individual if posting privileges are restricted." If having Sib be the program it once WAS, and should now be, and with NO penalty payments for ANYONE, NOT just the education users-- well if THATS an agenda then I and others are guilty as charged. Also: "Avid also prohibits petitions and polling the community in any manner." I imagine the polls on the forum will be removed now also? My opinion is that this TC isnt the proper solution to AVID's problems of how people perceive them, nor the solution to the just criticism being spoken by MANY in this forum, not just me, towards Sibelius, the program, and also how much is (mis)handled--mailings, notices, releases of updates etc,. And I DID offer many times to talk this stuff over with Joe off forum and even emailed him to start it off..Pls see attachment. And believe it or not I cringe at some of the things that are said here by othersbut those are somehow ignored. And the reason the penalty fine WAS reduced was because people DID speak up, (and even moreso due to Dorico) And finally, vintagevibe I DID let it go, but here you are bringing it back up..I sincerely wonder your intent. Hope that clears it up for you and ends this. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Attachment Screen Shot 2016-06-13 at 12.53.38 PM.png (51K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 09 Jun 03:59PM Hide picture > > This forum which is free, saves AVID a ton of money they would be using for technical support > > Just not true. I'm fed up with seeing this. > > The backend server architecture that runs this forum is non-trivial and expensive to maintain and run. That's without even considering the salaries of those that maintain and contribute to it. It's precisely because I believe it to be such a great resource for users that Sam and I have gone to the trouble of keeping its profile high amongst our colleagues. > > -- > Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius > www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] "Forums can seem like the wild west of online communities. Potentially thousands of people passionately engaging - or feuding - over topics of shared interest, with moderators riding shotgun and trying to keep order. But forums can be harnessed for good and can be a fantastic way to connect and converse with co-workers, partners, and customers. Forums offer amazing communications flexibility. They can enable conversations of just about any kind. People can ask and get answers to questions, brainstorm, seek feedback, or get assistance with issues. With internal forums, staff can save time and effort trying to find information or resources. Subject matter experts can quickly and efficiently determine where their time and expertise are best focused." By Melanie Baker – February 25, 2014 The Igloo blog. While the server architecture is not inexpensive to run the rapid response that contributors on this forum give to each other, whether well seasoned or neophytes, is invaluable to the company notwithstanding whether some see that or not. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 10 Jun 01:26PM Hide picture Bob - I've asked our IT director for technical details of our handling of credit cards. I can say that before a company is allowed to handle credit cards at all, they most prove that they have a certain level of security in place. My advice is to be (slightly) proudly paranoid when it comes to personal details, credit cards and so on. A good IT department acknowledges that there is no such thing as "completely secure system", only one that mitigates as much risk as possible. It's wrong to associate Avid's delisting from the NASDAQ with the handling of user details on a store. I've explained the technical reasons behind the delisting before and this is not relevant. Joe -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Jun 02:09PM Hide picture > Bob - I've asked our IT director for technical details of our handling of credit cards. I can say that before a company is allowed to handle credit cards at all, they most prove that they have a certain level of security in place. > > My advice is to be (slightly) proudly paranoid when it comes to personal details, credit cards and so on. A good IT department acknowledges that there is no such thing as "completely secure system", only one that mitigates as much risk as possible. Thank Joe..this I agree with. > > It's wrong to associate Avid's delisting from the NASDAQ with the handling of user details on a store. I've explained the technical reasons behind the delisting before and this is not relevant. > Well it might not be relevant to you, Joe but my definition of--how did you put it? being "(slightly) proudly paranoid" about credit cards sure encompasses the delisting, for me. And sorry to say but Ive missed your explanation of the technical reasons behind it--please can you give me a link so I might possibly see it from your side? Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Jun 10:18AM Hide picture Response from our IT department: > We have 64 bit encryption SSL cert configured on the site with SHA256 security protocol which is a highest level. You can check the security level specifics at https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=shop.avid.com . ​ > The user type the credit card details on payment gateway's webpage which is managed by Arvato. This helps us to protect the financial details by leveraging Arvato's Merchant of Record (MOR) service which is PCI complaint. We as Avid only store only the payment authorization code and masked credit card number and NOT the full details. Here's a summary: * All communication takes place using the highest form of industry standard TLS encryption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security. * Credit card details are never held by Avid at all. * Handling of credit cards is by Arvato who manage the Avid shop. They are PCI compliant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Card_Industry_Data_Security_Standard Personal user details and records of any transaction that may have been made with Avid is not related to Avid's presence on the stock exchange. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 13 Jun 11:40AM Hide picture Thanks Joe. Thanks Bob -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 09 Jun 02:19PM Hide picture Exactly! We've got a long history of helping people that have been caught out for any number of reasons. That's not going to change. If you find yourself in a pickle that can't be solved by one of the experts on this forum, just let me, Sam or Vee know. -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Mike Lyons - 10 Jun 11:56AM Hide picture Having been indisposed recently (also busy) I have only just noticed Bob's rant about my use of language above. American linguistic imperialism at its worst, indeed. However, in the interests of amusement and in further upsetting a few people who need to get their prorities right - not to mention that the English language is THE ENGLISH language, I got off my fanny and did a quick search. Have you any idea at all how many songs out there contain 'the F word'? Do you seriously think that teenagers and older using Sib are not aware of far worse words than tit? Besides, I seriously think you have the whole thing arse-uppards as we say in Lancashire! Follow this link to the venerable BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/robertburns/works/cock_up_your_beaver/ The sheet mmusic can be found here: http://www.larchmusic.co.uk/acatalog/COCK-UP-YOUR-BEAVER-LM010.html BTW, I also have a garden full of tits at the moment. They are feeding on the well-stocked bird table. Blue, Coal, Crested, Brown and Willow! I know G&S has gone out of fashion, though maybe not so much in the US where there are a number of thriving G&S Socs. Perhaps you'd like to censure their performances of the Mikado, where Gilbert was at his naughtiest! There's another good song in The Gondoliers - Take a Pair of Sparkling Eyes has an unfortunate elision where the vocalist cannot barely avoid singing "furnish_it upon the spot". I am sorry to say that your little tirade has disappointed me, Bob. -- Win 10 Pro, sib 6.2,7.5.1, 8.3, 8GB, 6TB, Focusright scarlett 6i6, Cubase 7.5, 8, 8.5, NotePerformer 1.5, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Miroslav, etc. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Jeff Hale - 10 Jun 01:11PM Hide picture > I know G&S has gone out of fashion.. Or in Trial by Jury, where the defendant sings "Is this the court of the exchequer? Be firm, be firm, my pecker." This generally comes close to stopping the show, at least in the U.S., because much of the audience is laughing. -- windows 10 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 10 Jun 01:30PM Hide picture OK - my last post on this thread for a bit: May I suggest we take delight in the various ways we can use language instead of arguing about it? You know - the normal rules that we all obey when not communicating electronically. Don't be deliberately offensive. Don't deliberately take offence when you know none was meant. Here's one of my favourites: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/09/guide-to-cockney-rhyming-slang -- Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, [email protected] Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jun 01:52PM Hide picture > Here's one of my favourites: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/09/guide-to-cockney-rhyming-slang > That list is rather fanciful, if not completely tongue-in-cheek I think! Even the illustration seems bogus. The lady is not elephant's, she appears to have tripped on a roller skate. And I don't think she's even Cockney. What's that magazine she's reading? Good opportunity to introduce those unfortunate enough not to be true-born English to this little gem. Conducting it was ex-British Prime Minister Edward Heath's party piece, and a very good job he made of it too the one time I was playing trombone in the orchestra (RAM 150th anniversary concert at the Festival Hall). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGEZ-kxQ0Z0 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Bob Morabito - 10 Jun 01:45PM Hide picture >I have only just noticed Bob's rant about my use of language above >I am sorry to say that your little tirade has disappointed me, Bob. Bugger!! Bl-w me!! That certainly wasnt my intention to disappoint you, Mike. And there was no rant, just a discussion, and I voiced my feelings-- and I wonder why youre trying to make it into something it wasnt, with a thread that ended a LONG time ago. Sure seems like a big co-k up to me:) And comparing the use of words in songs with whats posted here on this forum, is bollocks..or apples and oranges..or whatever.. So again Im lost as to your intentions, as this makes no sense to me. And it was simply left to the forum moderators to decide, so no rant there either. I think your understanding of what I said went t-ts up a while ago. Soooo..enjoy your day Mike. and Bob's your uncle. Thanks Bob PS And..BTW-it wasnt originally or simply YOU..sorry, though to interrupt your indignation. You yourself had a GREAT rant going there! PPS Slang words above were found here and used (hopefully) accordingly http://www.effingpot.com/slang.shtml -- Bob Morabito Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1 Fin 2014.5 Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Mike Lyons - 10 Jun 01:52PM (edited 10 Jun 03:38PM) Hide picture My final remark: I would love to go to this village in Ireland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effin It's actually not that far from where my dad was born! @Jeff Hale +1 -- Win 10 Pro, sib 6.2,7.5.1, 8.3, 8GB, 6TB, Focusright scarlett 6i6, Cubase 7.5, 8, 8.5, NotePerformer 1.5, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Miroslav, etc. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jun 01:54PM (edited 10 Jun 01:55PM) Hide picture http://prattsbottom.co.uk/ Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Jeff Hale - 10 Jun 02:12PM Hide picture >My final remark: I would love to go to this village in Ireland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effin The Austrians are somewhat less subtle. -- windows 10 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 Jun 02:18PM Hide picture > >My final remark: I would love to go to this village in Ireland: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effin > > The Austrians are somewhat less subtle. Indeed. Best if you Google the present participle and gerund of the English-language profanity beginning with F for yourself I suppose. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Rob Tuley - 11 Jun 02:08AM Hide picture > > >My final remark: I would love to go to this village in Ireland: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effin Not to mention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitterton (whose name means exactly what you think it means) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetwang (which is possibly a mangled English attempt at pronouncing Norse) -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 11 Jun 05:50AM Hide picture > My final remark: I would love to go to this village in Ireland: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effin > > It's actually not that far from where my dad was born! > > @Jeff Hale +1 > > -- > Win 10 Pro, sib 6.2,7.5.1, 8.3, 8GB, 6TB, Focusright scarlett 6i6, Cubase 7.5, 8, 8.5, NotePerformer 1.5, EWQLSO, EWQLSC, Miroslav, etc. I just love this last. "Effin Creamery[edit] Effin cheese is made in the local Effin creamery. Many Effin farmers formerly brought their Effin milk to the Effin creamery." -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.3.0, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Jun 10:49AM Hide picture http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2012/10/08/londons-top-ten-rude-roads/ Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Adrian Drover - 11 Jun 11:37AM Hide picture Attachments rude place.PNG.png (373K), rude place.PNG.png (373K), panorama RIGHT.png (798K), panorama RIGHT.png (798K), panorama RIGHT.jpg (563K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Jun 01:20PM Hide picture Indeed. I was taking a kids brass band to Austria. Just short of the border, the coach stopped in a layby. We asked the driver why. "The children will wish to take photographs." They did. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Philip Jones - 11 Jun 03:25PM Hide picture Proud to have grown up in Pratts Bottom (greengrocers apostrophe deliberately omitted, just down the hill from Knockholt, I now reside not far from Effingham in Surrey. -- Sib 6.2 upgrade build 88, Sibelius Player Essentials, Sibelius Sounds Gold, Kontakt Player available. Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Audio mode. Vista SP2, ASUS P5B-VM motherboard, 3GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 1GB DDR2, 250GB SATA. Back to top | All threads

Posted by Richard Vitale - 13 Jun 07:39PM (edited 13 Jun 09:27PM) Hide picture Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by lj - 19 Jun 02:07AM Hide picture I've been doing the monthly subscription for a while. Do I need to buy it? -- Mac Book Pro 2015 Sibelius 8 Wallander NotePerformer Focusrite Clarett 4pre audio Interface (Everything is always updated to newest version/operating system) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Robin Walker - 19 Jun 09:14AM Hide picture > I've been doing the monthly subscription for a while. Do I need to buy it? This discussion relates only to users who have a perpetual licence, not monthly or annual subscribers. -- Sibelius 8.3/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 8.1/10 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Richard Vitale - 26 Jun 07:38AM Hide picture > I've been doing the monthly subscription for a while. Do I need to buy it?> You should look at the pricing model attached and choose what is best for you. -- Richie Vitale-Sib 8.3.0 User iMac 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i5 / 8 GB RAM [email protected] http://www.youtube.com/user/richievitale Attachment New Sib Pricing Graph Screen Shot.png (162K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by bugbuster - 26 Jun 07:39PM Hide picture Since I do jazz, most of the upgrade features for the last few years haven't helped me that much. I'm at version 8 now. $89/year doesn't buy me anything unless more attention is paid to jazz, especially chord symbols. -- Misplaced jazz guitar player, would play chamber music on violin if could relive life, have retired from day job, composing chamber music and writing parts for a jazz group. Sibelius 7, Mac OS 10.7 aka Feral Cat. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by jazzisfaction - 28 Jul 09:51PM Hide picture Im writing for orchestra and I would NEVER ever recommend Sibelius to anybody who wants to write for bigger ensemble. The audio-engine is the worst thing I ever experienced. It gets stocked the whole time. So if you are in bar 500 you have to wait 2 seconds every time you want to enter a new note - even if you take the 'Sibelius Light' Sounds. PLUS: Sounds are played in a wrong way. Sibelius plays a snare and 2 bars later woodblocks - I didn't change the instrument, nothing. Guys, I'm looking so much forward to the new Steinberg notator program. You are cheating on us since 5 years - that's 5 years too long. I hope you can take this criticism and you will publish it...I'm so angry every time I have to work with Sibelius.... Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 28 Jul 10:00PM Hide picture I am using Sibelius to write for a symphonic wind ensemble including percussion. The score has 36 staves, including percussion. In fact, I'm using NotePerformer, not Sibelius sounds, so I can't speak for those. I have no waiting around to enter notes - everything happens instantaneously. Your problem may not be with Sibelius, but with your computer. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by jazzisfaction - 28 Jul 10:58PM Hide picture Thanx, but it can't be my computer. I have a very expensive machine with lot's of RAM, SD-Drive and and and...it is Sibelius believe me. They really have a bad audio engine - and that's since yesterday. ---- Mac OS X 10.10.5. 2,6 GHz, Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 28 Jul 11:07PM Hide picture You may wish to start a new thread and see if some of our expert Sibelius users can help to improve things for you - or at least confirm that the problem really is with Sibelius. I have never read on this forum of anyone complaining about the audio engine, though I may have missed something. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 29 Jul 12:16AM Hide picture Yes that is the best. Start a new thread and I'm sure there will be input from those who use Sib. sounds and have similar issues when scores get overly large and have numerous articulations and expressions used throughout. -- Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.4.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.6 (update 4-8-2016). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate (7 is better). Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there) ProTools 9.5, Reaper Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3 Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's Pencil & Paper BMus MM (Musicology) Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by jazzisfaction - 31 Jul 10:03AM Hide picture It's not only the audio engine...there are so many bugs...for anybody who wants, I'd like to invite him to Germany and sit beside me for just 1 day when I try to write orchestra scores with Sibelius...and I promise you, wou'll understand what I mean. I'm a Sibelius user for a long time, working with Logic and Max/MSP for years...I know my business and I know that Sibelius is weak, very weak...sorry guys. For wirting for small ensemble it might work well, but large orchestra with scores of 30 minutes: no chance.... Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Chris Crawley - 31 Jul 10:34AM (edited 31 Jul 10:56AM) Hide picture "It's not only the audio engine...there are so many bugs..." Well, specify them and let the knowledgeable people on here comment. As I said above, I'm writing large scores for symphonic wind band - over 30 staves - and I don't have any issues with bugs, delays or anything like that. I'm curious to know what is going on. -- Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100 Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Roy Moore - 31 Jul 10:53AM Hide picture Likewise, I use Sibelius all the time for big orchestras, often plus rhythm section/saxes etc and I'm not experiencing show-stopping problems. I export demo mp3 to check routines/keys etc. Can you list the many bugs that you encounter. -- Roy Moore London UK (2016) Sib 7.5,8.4.1 -Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd Various East West, Hollywood Strings, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Laurence Payne - 31 Jul 11:04AM Hide picture Is it still the case that slow-down problems with large scores are more common on Mac? I note that the previous two comments are from PC users. Back to top | All threads

Re: Introducing New Sibelius Upgrade plans Posted by Rob Tuley - 31 Jul 06:33PM Hide picture > "It's not only the audio engine...there are so many bugs..." > > Well, specify them and let the knowledgeable people on here comment. What's the point? It would be easy to list 20 or 30 bugs (about notation, not playback!) that haven't been fixed since Sibelius 2. Most of them have already been listed many times over. That's why I gave up waiting for any significant improvements 10 years ago - and I only ungraded from Sib 3 to 4 because I got a very cheap upgrade deal on it. When Sib 5 went away with fairies claiming to invent a new "world standard playback system for notation programs", that was the last straw - Even Daniel in his new job now admits they got that one wrong twice - too complicated for most users, but not enough functionality for experts. (Still, it created some employment opportunities for Jonathan Loving, Arne Wallander, etc) -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 10. Back to top | All threads