Sibelius - the leading music composition and notation software

Sib. 7.5. question, but this may apply to all versions.

I need to set up a fold-out at the end of a string part. In this case, the extra page would immediately follow the last page of the part (page 11).

Three things I can't find the answers to on the forum:

1) how to make the extra page read "11b" or something to that effect, indicating that this is a continuation of page 11. "Page number change" allows me to either indicate an integer or a letter, but not both;

2) how to move (only) this new page 11b number to the outside edge;

3) how to hide the superfluous part header and page number on the blank page I've inserted after the fold-out.

For point 3, I can only find the following thread, and none of the solutions work:
http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=609495&groupid=3&&guest=1
I've tried covering up the header and page number with a white graphic, but no dice (see my attempt on "p. 13" in the attached screenshot).

Any suggestions on how to handle foldouts in professional concert music parts would be GREATLY appreciated.
--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Attachment

Screen Shot 2016-02-07 at 2.49.40 PM.png (260K)

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Mike Lyons - 07 Feb 08:03PM

Hide picture

I have to admit that I actually don't understand the question!

--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 10 Pro, 8GB,7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Laurence Payne - 07 Feb 08:09PM (edited 07 Feb 08:19PM)

Hide picture

What's wrong with calling it page 12 and having a header? After all, it IS page 12, even if you're binding it differently to the rest of the part.

You could use the "Different Margins" option in "Special page Break" to adjust the layout.

Isn't a blank page at the end of a score, with nothing at all on it, best described as "not a page"?

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 07 Feb 10:15PM

Hide picture

Thanks for the reply, Lawrence.

> What's wrong with calling it page 12 and having a header? After all, it IS page 12, even if you're binding it differently to the rest of the part.

That is certainly a possibility. Nonetheless, I'd rather have the option to do it whichever way I deem appropriate, rather than doing it the easy way just because I don't know how to do the other.

> You could use the "Different Margins" option in "Special page Break" to adjust the layout.

What can I accomplish in "Different Margins"? I don't see any options in there that affect my three original points.

> Isn't a blank page at the end of a score, with nothing at all on it, best described as "not a page"?

It would be, if it were actually blank. If, on the other hand, I want to include text such as "Unfold Page-->", I need an actual blank page—and since I wouldn't be counting it as an actual numbered page, I don't want a header on it.

Likewise, if the foldout page were not at the very end of a part, there would still be a need for a completely blank page (see linked thread above). A method to accomplish this would be helpful to have on the forum.

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Laurence Payne - 07 Feb 11:24PM

Hide picture

For the fold-out page, insert a Page Number Change with the Hide Page Numbers option selected. Insert your custom page number manually as a text object.

For your blank page, create it in a word processor or graphics program. Save it as a PDF and append it to the PDF of your Sibelius score before printing or distribution.

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Kai Struck - 08 Feb 12:26AM

Hide picture

What happens if you insert a pagenumber change as Laurence suggests but instead of completely hiding it you choose 11? Does sib treat it as odd page? Then add the b as manually.

Using some pdf tools is often required to accomplish more complex documents. Therefor I created LOSA (in my signature).

--
Windows7 Pro, Lubuntu 15.10, Sibelius 7.1.3, LibreOffice 4.4.7, OpenOffice 4.1.2
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
SVG-Tools:
http://struckkai.blogspot.com/2016/02/svg-tools.html

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Mike Lyons - 08 Feb 08:58AM

Hide picture

Have you tried moving your box up to the top layer? (Appearance tab)Also, have you tried the 'erase background' switch in the Inspector?

I am just wondering, and this is genuine interest, why you need a fly-out page. Surely this is just making things more complex for your musicians?

--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 10 Pro, 8GB,7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 08 Feb 01:33PM

Hide picture

> Have you tried moving your box up to the top layer? (Appearance tab)Also, have you tried the 'erase background' switch in the Inspector?
>
I've tried with both a text box and a white graphic over the blank page's header; it appears that headers in Sibelius are immune to layer hierarchy.

> I am just wondering, and this is genuine interest, why you need a fly-out page. Surely this is just making things more complex for your musicians?
>
Nothing to do with complexity; there's simply no possibility of a page turn for 3 pages in a row (though I generally avoid such situations). Also out of curiosity, how is unfolding a page a complex task for musicians?

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Mike Lyons - 08 Feb 11:02PM

Hide picture

> > Have you tried moving your box up to the top layer? (Appearance tab)Also, have you tried the 'erase background' switch in the Inspector?
> >
> I've tried with both a text box and a white graphic over the blank page's header; it appears that headers in Sibelius are immune to layer hierarchy.
>
>
> > I am just wondering, and this is genuine interest, why you need a fly-out page. Surely this is just making things more complex for your musicians?
> >
> Nothing to do with complexity; there's simply no possibility of a page turn for 3 pages in a row (though I generally avoid such situations). Also out of curiosity, how is unfolding a page a complex task for musicians?
>

But it has to be re-folded back in again, on the fly, at some point... Why not just use VS? I know some violinists complain they need a 3rd arm, but hey, that's what comes with the job! :-)
>
> --
> www.hstafylakis.com
> Sibelius 7.5.1
> 2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
> MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 10 Pro, 8GB,7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 08 Feb 01:26PM

Hide picture

>
> What happens if you insert a pagenumber change as Laurence suggests but instead of completely hiding it you choose 11? Does sib treat it as odd page? Then add the b as manually.
>
Unfortunately not – Sibelius doesn't skip an odd or even page regardless of the page number. This is solved by adding a blank page immediately after the fold-out page (which is necessary anyway).

> Using some pdf tools is often required to accomplish more complex documents. Therefor I created LOSA (in my signature).
>
If need be, additional (external) tools can be handy, though I would go to great lengths to avoid that need.

>
>
> --
> Windows7 Pro, Lubuntu 15.10, Sibelius 7.1.3, LibreOffice 4.4.7, OpenOffice 4.1.2
> Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
> http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
> SVG-Tools:
> http://struckkai.blogspot.com/2016/02/svg-tools.html

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 08 Feb 01:22PM

Hide picture

> For the fold-out page, insert a Page Number Change with the Hide Page Numbers option selected. Insert your custom page number manually as a text object.
>

Yep, that's my current solution for the page number thing.

> For your blank page, create it in a word processor or graphics program. Save it as a PDF and append it to the PDF of your Sibelius score before printing or distribution.

Ugh. I prefer to do things in-house whenever possible, as using an external program adds steps to the production that are tedious whenever revisions are necessary. But yes, this is a possibility.

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Kai Struck - 08 Feb 01:42PM (edited 08 Feb 01:46PM)

Hide picture

So the last problem is hiding the Header on the blank page?
That is indeed possible as Mike Lyons explained.
Create a new blank page text style with white font color and "erase background". To make it appear in front of the header set it to "bring to front" in the Appearance->Order tab or right click menu.

Edit: just read in a previous reply of you that it doesn't work for you.
It works here on Win7, Sib7.1.3 PDF export.
Wondering...

--
Windows7 Pro, Lubuntu 15.10, Sibelius 7.1.3, LibreOffice 4.4.7, OpenOffice 4.1.2
Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
SVG-Tools:
http://struckkai.blogspot.com/2016/02/svg-tools.html

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 08 Feb 02:04PM

Hide picture

> So the last problem is hiding the Header on the blank page?
> That is indeed possible as Mike Lyons explained.
> Create a new blank page text style with white font color and "erase background". To make it appear in front of the header set it to "bring to front" in the Appearance->Order tab or right click menu.
>
> Edit: just read in a previous reply of you that it doesn't work for you.
> It works here on Win7, Sib7.1.3 PDF export.
> Wondering...
>

Ah. I hadn't tried the new text style, with white text AND white background AND erase background. Thank you!

>
>
> --
> Windows7 Pro, Lubuntu 15.10, Sibelius 7.1.3, LibreOffice 4.4.7, OpenOffice 4.1.2
> Free Project: LibreOffice Songbook Architect (LOSA)
> http://struckkai.blogspot.de/2015/04/libreofficesongbookarchitect.html
> SVG-Tools:
> http://struckkai.blogspot.com/2016/02/svg-tools.html

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Re: Fold-out Part setup
Posted by Harry Stafylakis - 08 Feb 02:17PM

Hide picture

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. In summary (for posterity), here are the solutions that best worked for me:

> 1) how to make the extra page read "11b" or something to that effect, indicating that this is a continuation of page 11. "Page number change" allows me to either indicate an integer or a letter, but not both;
>
"Page number change" to a hidden page number on the fold-out page; plain text object with custom page number (e.g. 11b); hide new text object from score ("show in parts"), as this is a staff object.

> 2) how to move (only) this new page 11b number to the outside edge;
>
Not an issue with a plain-text object for a page number; it can be placed anywhere.

> 3) how to hide the superfluous part header and page number on the blank page I've inserted after the fold-out.
>
•For the page number: "Page number change" to a hidden page number on the blank page.
•For the header, create a new text style based on "plain text (on blank page)"; in the Edit page for this text style, Font tab, select 'white' text color; under Border tab, select "erase background" and choose white for background color. Type in sufficient text to cover the header, and under Appearance in the ribbon select "bring to front".

If the foldout (e.g. 11b) and its ensuing blank page (no page number assigned) are followed by more music, create another "page number change" on the following page (this time visible) with the next consecutive integer (e.g. 12). Now odd/even page layout is back to normal.

Again, thanks Sibelius community.

--
www.hstafylakis.com
Sibelius 7.5.1
2012 MacBook Pro 17 - 2.4GHz Intel Core i7 - 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 - Samsung EVO850 SSD
MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid - Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5

Quick reply

Messages in this thread

* Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 07 Feb 07:52PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Mike Lyons, 07 Feb 08:03PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Laurence Payne, 07 Feb 08:09PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 07 Feb 10:15PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Laurence Payne, 07 Feb 11:24PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Kai Struck, 08 Feb 12:26AM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Mike Lyons, 08 Feb 08:58AM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 08 Feb 01:33PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Mike Lyons, 08 Feb 11:02PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 08 Feb 01:26PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 08 Feb 01:22PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Kai Struck, 08 Feb 01:42PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 08 Feb 02:04PM

Re: Fold-out Part setup - Harry Stafylakis, 08 Feb 02:17PM