'Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano'

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Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - bugbuster, 02 Feb 07:25PM
     Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Adrian Drover, 02 Feb 07:44PM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - bugbuster, 02 Feb 08:24PM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Rob Tuley, 02 Feb 08:26PM
             Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Rob Tuley, 02 Feb 08:34PM

Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano
Posted by bugbuster - 02 Feb 07:25PM
In Clinton Roemer's book "The Art of Music Copying" 2nd Edition, the chapter on keyboard writing, page 167, items 20-21, he shows a small '8' placed under each note in the bass clef staff of a piano part. This tells the player to double the notes an octave below. Is there a way to implement this handy space-saver in Sibelius? (Mind, it's not the same as 8vb, it means play the note *and* the note an octave below.)

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Misplaced jazz guitar player, would play chamber music on violin if could relive life, have retired from day job, composing chamber music and writing parts for a jazz group. Sibelius 7, Mac OS 10.7 aka Feral Cat.
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Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano
Posted by Adrian Drover - 02 Feb 07:44PM (edited 02 Feb 08:03PM)
I guess I have an earlier edition of Roemer than you. The example is on p.142 in my book. The way to do it in Sib is to add the 8vb to the notes with Shift/8 (top line qwerty). Filter the bottom notes (Alt/Ctrl/b). Make them voice 2 with Alt/2 (top line qwerty). Filter voice 2 Alt/Shift/Ctrl/2 (top line qwerty). Hide (Shift/Ctrl/h). Add "8" in technique text. Do you really want to do this? It's just as easy to read fully notated. And easier to write. Remember Roemer is all about speed and less effort in hand copying. Sibelius has changed the way we do it now.
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Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano
Posted by bugbuster - 02 Feb 08:24PM
I see your point. Plus I'm not a piano player, so all those ledger lines would probably bother me more than they would a piano player used to seeing that.

--
Misplaced jazz guitar player, would play chamber music on violin if could relive life, have retired from day job, composing chamber music and writing parts for a jazz group. Sibelius 7, Mac OS 10.7 aka Feral Cat.
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Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano
Posted by Rob Tuley - 02 Feb 08:26PM
I agree with Adrian - for the sake of a bit more paper this isn't worth the possible confusion. Even a genuine "8vb" (with single notes) is very rarely worth it, unless you are using only the bottom few notes of the piano for a long time.

With octave doubling, it is easy to recognize the interval as an octave, and the top note never has more than 3 leger lines, which shouldn't be a reading issue for any reasonably advanced pianist.

The TOP range of the piano goes much further above the staff than the bottom range goes below and 8va is commonplace - but again, IMO octaves should always be written out, not abbreviated with "8" or something similar.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.
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Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano
Posted by Rob Tuley - 02 Feb 08:34PM (edited 02 Feb 08:36PM)
> ... all those ledger lines would probably bother me ...

Remember even 18th-century 5-octave keyboard instruments went down to F 4 leger lines below the bass clef, and nobody ever used 8vb for that - so keyboard players have been reading this for a few hundred years already!

The modern piano only goes another 6th lower, but an octave and a half higher. Nine leger lines above the treble clef is definitely too many, though five with "8va" is quite OK. "15va" is unambiguous, but not necessarily easier to read than "8va".

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - bugbuster, 02 Feb 07:25PM
     Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Adrian Drover, 02 Feb 07:44PM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - bugbuster, 02 Feb 08:24PM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Rob Tuley, 02 Feb 08:26PM
             Re: Sib. 8.x: octave doubling for piano - Rob Tuley, 02 Feb 08:34PM