'Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...'

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Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favou... - Laurence Payne, 28 Jan 11:57PM
     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Rob Tuley, 29 Jan 01:38AM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 04:51AM
             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Neil Sands, 29 Jan 06:35AM
                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 29 Jan 07:22AM
                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter McAleer, 29 Jan 07:39AM
                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 29 Jan 10:20AM
                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 10:37AM
                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Tony Wakefield, 29 Jan 11:35AM
                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 02:11PM
                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 02:21PM
                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 29 Jan 04:02PM
                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 29 Jan 04:26PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 29 Jan 05:18PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 05:21PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 29 Jan 06:28PM
                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 06:38PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Philip Jones, 29 Jan 08:19PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 29 Jan 08:27PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 12:34AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 30 Jan 09:00AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Nicholas Freestone, 30 Jan 12:51PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Tony Cliff, 30 Jan 02:24PM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 30 Jan 03:16PM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 07:15PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 30 Jan 10:05PM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 30 Jan 09:14PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Greg Jones, 30 Jan 11:44PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 11:48PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 11:46PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 31 Jan 12:31AM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 31 Jan 01:21AM
                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 31 Jan 02:54AM
                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 31 Jan 11:27AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 12:45PM
                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 31 Jan 01:18PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 01:31PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Robin Walker, 31 Jan 01:46PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 31 Jan 01:57PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 04:51PM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 31 Jan 05:20PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 31 Jan 05:25PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 31 Jan 05:00PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 09:49PM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 31 Jan 11:24PM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Patrick O'Keefe, 31 Jan 11:39PM
                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - James, 01 Feb 01:05AM
                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 01 Feb 01:28AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter Roos, 01 Feb 02:04AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Patrick O'Keefe, 01 Feb 02:09AM
                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 01 Feb 03:36AM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 01 Feb 09:17AM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 01 Feb 09:50AM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter McAleer, 01 Feb 01:38PM
                                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 01 Feb 03:56PM
                                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 01 Feb 04:01PM

Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 28 Jan 11:57PM (edited 29 Jan 12:29AM)

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2016/1/28/pro-tools-and-other-audio-team-go-in-avid-technology-layoffs

Maybe this is how all big companies operate? Thank goodness I'm self-employed!

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Rob Tuley - 29 Jan 01:38AM (edited 29 Jan 01:51AM)
> Maybe this is how all big companies operate?

Not necessarily. I work for a seriously big company (i.e. more than 50,000 employees world wide). Sure, sometimes there are layoffs, but mostly the "good guys" get redeployed, not laid off - even when a project with a few thousand people working on it gets cancelled, for reasons that are outside of the company's control (i.e. not because it's a dinosaur-like product that nobody wants to buy any more).

What some of the "happy bunnies" are thinking, here: https://www.thelayoff.com/avid-technology
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=377218
--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 29 Jan 04:51AM
Hi folks,

I can say that there are no changes in the Sibelius team. Sam and I are still here and our development team too remains unchanged.

Now that we've got Sib 8.1 out of the door, we're working hard on an update for 8.2.

Any questions, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer.

Joe

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Neil Sands - 29 Jan 06:35AM
Well, Avid wouldn't touch their Sibelius development team would they?

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 29 Jan 07:22AM
Development team? Do we have one?

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Peter McAleer - 29 Jan 07:39AM
My heart goes out to you, Joe, ans Sam, having to front for this disgrace of a company

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.5; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.10.5 ('Yosemite')

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Chris Crawley - 29 Jan 10:20AM
"Development team? Do we have one?"

Don't we have two - one in Ukraine and one in Montreal? Or have the Ukrainians been sacked?

--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 29 Jan 10:37AM
Well actually there now seems to be THREE, according to Joe's posts on forums on the web--in "Montréal, Poland and Ukraine". Who knew??:) (or maybe I just forgot!:)

Thanks Bob



--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 29 Jan 11:35AM
No, there are four - North Korea has just jumped on board.

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 29 Jan 02:11PM
Read some of the comments from employees and users re the layoff:

https://www.thelayoff.com/avid-technology

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 29 Jan 02:21PM
We've got developers in Montréal, Ukraine and Poland. Product management is in the UK. There are also numerous other roles involved with Sibelius across the US and other countries. We're quite a spread out lot!

It's sad to have lost some great colleagues, although I have little doubt they'll land on their feet. Purely in terms of Sibelius, however, we're full steam ahead.

Joe

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 29 Jan 04:02PM
> We've got developers in Montréal, Ukraine and Poland. Product management is in the UK. There are also numerous other roles involved with Sibelius across the US and other countries. We're quite a spread out lot!
>
> It's sad to have lost some great colleagues, although I have little doubt they'll land on their feet. Purely in terms of Sibelius, however, we're full steam ahead.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Golden Parachute protecting for upper management.....it's a shameful situation when the developers....the actual feet on the ground cadre is sacked with no good reason except poor management and greed.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.0.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.5 (update 12-15-2015). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro

MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3
Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's
Pencil & Paper
BMus MM (Musicology)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 29 Jan 04:26PM (edited 29 Jan 04:31PM)
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 29 Jan 14:21
Purely in terms of Sibelius, however, we're full steam ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Is that why we are all rushing to upgrade to 7.5 & 8, Joe? I have yet to hear a single report that these upgrades are a must to have. "Full steam ahead"? Hmmm., you're so right, Joe. Steam power went out of fashion years ago. There's no coal available to shovel on the fire. I'm sorry, but I despair for the future of Sibelius.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Roy Moore - 29 Jan 05:18PM (edited 29 Jan 07:08PM)
To add a little balance.
I've done several scores this week in 8.1 and I've found direct export to MP3 and intelligent rests a real time saver. I try to avoid 1st x bars but I had to this week and glad to find I didn't have to reposition every instance in every part as happened before.
--
Roy Moore
London UK (2016)
Sib 7.5,8.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD
Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd
Various East West, Hollywood Strings, Note Performer




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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 29 Jan 05:21PM
Thanks Roy, that's really encouraging to hear!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 29 Jan 06:28PM
To be fair, Adrian, the long-requested Magnetic Rests will be as useful to people who write piano scores as, perhaps, the Explode function is to your way of working.

If there's another notable "incremental" improvement before June (and it doesn't emerge that other features have been broken in the process), Avid just MIGHT get my money.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 29 Jan 06:38PM

> Golden Parachute protecting for upper management.....it's a shameful situation when the developers....the actual feet on the ground cadre is sacked with no good reason except poor management and greed.

Heres a past article about this--gives a good idea how it works: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/03/30/avid-executive-pay-jumps-company-struggles/VHWtVvoGXQ9Qgp3QGU2cYM/story.html

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Philip Jones - 29 Jan 08:19PM
Now this is well worth a read, from Bob Morabito; "Heres a past article about this--gives a good idea how it works:" https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/03/30/avid-executive-pay-jumps-company-struggles/VHWtVvoGXQ9Qgp3QGU2cYM/story.html

Net income in 2014 - $14.7m. Combined compensation of the CEO and CFO $10.7m

QED.

--
Sib 6.2 upgrade build 88, Sibelius Player Essentials, Sibelius Sounds Gold, Kontakt Player available. Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Audio mode. Vista SP2, ASUS P5B-VM motherboard, 3GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 1GB DDR2, 250GB SATA.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Chris Crawley - 29 Jan 08:27PM
Jeez. Why is anyone (the CEO, in this case) worth $6.5 when the company takes $14.7?

Perhaps this is the way things operate; if so, perhaps someone can give some comparisons from elsewhere in this crazy world.

--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 30 Jan 12:34AM
>"Well, Avid wouldn't touch their Sibelius development team would they?"

They did once before--and remember the disastrous consequences? Heck, they didnt even have replacements:)

And IMHO the development teams are very barely getting the job done now, if at all--many, including myself still wonder if there ARE actually teams as we are told to believe,(they now say there are THREE teams - Montréal, Ukraine and Poland)--and /or also wonder how much of the stuff they dole out in very small doses for "updates" was ALREADY done. by Daniel et al..

My guess would be that being a programmer on a SIb "development" team at this time is an awfully safe place to be concerning fears of getting laid off, as they really seem hard to find and replace. Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 30 Jan 09:00AM (edited 30 Jan 09:04AM)
OK, I just want to hear from users who are happy with what they got for their v7.5 & v8 upgrade money, specifically in ease of putting notes onto paper, not in trying to emulate live orchestras in playback. The latter is not what I originally bought Sibelius for. I write for human musicians, not machines. Thank you Roy & Laurence for your observations so far.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 30 Jan 12:51PM
> >"Well, Avid wouldn't touch their Sibelius development team would they?"
>
> They did once before--and remember the disastrous consequences? Heck, they didnt even have replacements:)
>
> And IMHO the development teams are very barely getting the job done now, if at all--many, including myself still wonder if there ARE actually teams as we are told to believe,(they now say there are THREE teams - Montréal, Ukraine and Poland)--and /or also wonder how much of the stuff they dole out in very small doses for "updates" was ALREADY done. by Daniel et al..
>
> My guess would be that being a programmer on a SIb "development" team at this time is an awfully safe place to be concerning fears of getting laid off, as they really seem hard to find and replace. Thanks Bob
>

Yep, I think that's what the post you quoted was driving at, Bob - and I agree wholeheartedly. It's great that this new team appears to be finding their feet with 8.1 looking like a useful release. But there's just no stability in Avid these days. We saw it in 2012 and we're seeing it again now with the ProTools layoffs. Horrible company. (And that's no reflection on the Sib team - Sam, Joe and the rest of the development team - who are doing the best job they can in trying circumstances)

BTW - good to see you back, Bob - hope all's well with you :)


--
Mac Mini, OS X 10.10.3, 2.8 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, Sibelius 7.5.1

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Tony Cliff - 30 Jan 02:24PM (edited 30 Jan 06:04PM)
It is obvious the Avid is in a hell of a mess with modern, affordable and frequently updated programs like REAPER taking a huge share of the DAW market. I use this brilliant program and there have been beta updates practically every day over the past few weeks and official updates probably every monnth. Of course we don't know when the Steinberg notation program will be released. It maybe that Sibelius users have to stump up one paid for update to keep their software 'current' and give the competition time for a release

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 30 Jan 03:16PM
We hear that the development platform for Sibelius is about to be migrated from Qt4 to Qt5. Having just experienced another productivity application I use - much smaller than Sibelius - take the same journey, well, let's just say the programmers are going to have an interesting year!

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 30 Jan 07:15PM (edited 30 Jan 07:51PM)
> BTW - good to see you back, Bob - hope all's well with you :)

Thanks so much Nicholas for your kind words--they're very much appreciated:)

Please--so theres no misunderstandings, Im not back nor do I ever plan to be back again doing forum technical support as long as AVID is involved. I realized from the start with this "protest" it would have no impact on the forum, and it would survive--and survive it has very well, which Im very glad for as the users really need it. The money thats saved by AVID by us users kindly doing this free support should go to rehiring the poor Pro Tools guys who were laid off, and NOT for Hernandez's 6 or 7 million payday. He should be ashamed of himself.

I did it mainly just to know that I stood up and did something that I felt right against all the wrongs AVID has done, is doing, and will continue doing.

> (And that's no reflection on the Sib team - Sam, Joe and the rest of the development team - who are doing the best job they can in trying circumstances)

Theres much to say about this, but perhaps another time.

Thanks again, Nicholas.

Bob

PS YMMV of course, but i honestly feel AVIDS days have been numbered for a VERY long time, and those days are being counted in earnest once again...and its only a short matter of time til management messes with Sib again, as theyre doing with Protools, etc...and Steinberg appears..

In short I fully agree with this, which was said earlier in this thread:

"I'm sorry, but I despair for the future of Sibelius."

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Chris Crawley - 30 Jan 10:05PM
It is always good to hear from you, Bob. The other day I was wondering how you are, and hoping that your health has been stable after last summer's scare.

I'm sure we understand where you're coming from over your refusal to provide technical advice. Indeed, there may be a great deal to say about the situation with Avid and with Sibelius in particular, but I'm not sure there's any point in saying it, now or perhaps ever.

The really significant macro-decisions are out of our hands. One slight glimmer of hope is that certain Avid employees read this forum and there seems to be a concerted attempt to take on board criticisms and suggestions, or at least to be seen to be listening, though these often concern minutiae compared with the larger issues.

But I think it is understood - at least at middle management level - that some major and sustained development of Sibelius must take place. Your fear that higher management will blindly and arbitrarily take the axe to all this at some point is ominous.

--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 30 Jan 09:14PM
> We hear that the development platform for Sibelius is about to be migrated from Qt4 to Qt5.

We've been working on that for well over a year now. Yes, it's hard!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Greg Jones - 30 Jan 11:44PM
So, I have a question. I know that there are development teams in Ukraine and Montreal, but when was the Poland development team added?

--
Sibelius 8.1, MacBook Pro, OS X Version 10.11 El Capitan, Logic Pro, Garritan Personal Orchestra 4, Garritan Jazz Ensemble/Big Band 3, Garritan Concert and Marching Band 2, Note Performer 1.5.0, 8 GB 1067 Mhz DDR3, 2.53 GHz Intel Core i5, Yamaha Motif XF8

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 30 Jan 11:48PM (edited 30 Jan 11:54PM)
> So, I have a question. I know that there are development teams in Ukraine and Montreal, but when was the Poland development team added?

GREAT question--as I wrote previously I never heard of them either until it was said on another forum by Joe..

Thanks Bob

PS SO it takes THREE teams in three countries and TWO program designers to do what one Daniel and one team did in one place..and look at the HUGE difference in quality and amount of stuff accomplished for Sib..kind of keeps things in proper perspective, sad to say

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 30 Jan 11:46PM
Thanks so very much Chris--its always so nice hearing from you also:)

And your concern is truly welcome and touching- in passing, last year was a HORRIBLE year--I spent two months in the Hospital (June and October) and an additional 3 weeks in rehab..I refused rehab the second time, as I sorely needed to go home, and make music, to feel better:) AND IT HELPED:):)
Now for those here who've listened to my music--Soundcloud link below--Im sure youre wondering how THAT could make ANYONE feel better..LOL:):) Actually its been extremely well received and in a very short time. Im rushing to get it posted there while my health holds, and I still can.

(BTW any good medical malpractice attorneys on the list please contact me off forum--thanks so much!:)

Thanks also for understanding my continued not taking part anymore in providing tech help here--I need to know inside me that I took some sort of stand against AVID, no matter what little or no effect it has---and anyways you guys are doing a GREAT job:) I do read much of he forum every day.
I also never say the name of the notation program Im using, or if Im using Sib at all, as I do have Finale, etc when asked...and Im asked many times how I do what Im doing on Suundcloud, and for recommendations, and never ever recommend Sib as I used to do in the past. I usually just give all the facts about AVID and Sib, and people decide for themselves, and are staying away.

So its probably tilting at windmills, but Im fighting back, as best I can:)

And Ive got to agree..its all been basically said , AND IGNORED, too many times now by AVID..just by seeing what they repeatedly do, and have done, speaks volumes on how messed up they are. They AINT listening to us or anyone else--just the almighty $$$$$.


>One slight glimmer of hope is that certain Avid employees read this forum and there seems to be a concerted attempt to take on board criticisms and suggestions, or at least to be seen to be listening, though these often concern minutiae compared with the larger issues.

Again, please forgive me Chris, Ill get into this maybe another time, but I feel there are real misunderstandings as to the timings, and sincerity and purity of motives for doing what you speak of, and the improper placing of blame where many problems and faults lie..the phrase "remedial PR" echoes throughout my sentiment, though, as it repeatedly did in the forums here at one time by many..


And yes I feel Avid will also be "trimming" Sib, as they did ProTools; and Steinberg seems very soon to be released. If it happens well before June, the monies many of us will unhappily have to fork over for a year of AVID might be saved..most of us will only be paying to have something to keep our work going on, until both us/and Steinberg get fully up to speed.


Thanks so much Chris.--hope all is well with you and yours, and that your music is going well:)

Thanks Bob

PS I find it so sad and upsetting that theres so much hoopla about mp3 conversion as a "feature' in this new update----people are SOO hungry for improvements to Sib , they'll take crumbs and feel like its a feast..

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 31 Jan 12:31AM
MP3 export is one of our top requested features on IdeaScale. It's no coincidence therefore that we added it in 8.1. Of course, that's not the only feature we added, with the new rest collision avoidance feature, also sourced from IdeaScale, as well as fixing the top 5 causes of crashes, and several other improvements.

Avid is going through a significant transformation at levels way beyond my role and Sibelius as a product, and of course no one likes seeing colleagues go.

We've got a strong team together of incredibly experienced programmers.

We are making a concerted effort to listen and respond to the concerns of our users. I don't expect to fix everything overnight.

I welcome constructive criticism. Many of the fixes in 8.1 are directly as a result of conversations I've had with users on this very forum. We're actively sharing our roadmap with our beta testers these days too. You can expect more of that going forward.

Joe

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 31 Jan 01:21AM
> MP3 export is one of our top requested features on IdeaScale. It's no coincidence therefore that we added it in 8.1. Of course, that's not the only feature we added, with the new rest collision avoidance feature, also sourced from IdeaScale, as well as fixing the top 5 causes of crashes, and several other improvements.
>
> Avid is going through a significant transformation at levels way beyond my role and Sibelius as a product, and of course no one likes seeing colleagues go.
>
> We've got a strong team together of incredibly experienced programmers.
>
> We are making a concerted effort to listen and respond to the concerns of our users. I don't expect to fix everything overnight.
>
> I welcome constructive criticism. Many of the fixes in 8.1 are directly as a result of conversations I've had with users on this very forum. We're actively sharing our roadmap with our beta testers these days too. You can expect more of that going forward.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

MP3 and rests avoidance are a big deal with the push being given to the later.
Still want to have my dashed and dotted editorial ties show up in 8.2 Joe.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, 8.0.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, TMT Publisher Plugins, NotePerformer 1.5.0, dolet 6.5 (update 12-15-2015). PhotoScore 6,7,8 Ultimate

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, 2014.5, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments. SmartScore X Pro, SmartScore X2 Pro

MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3
Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64 bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit); Windows 10 Home/ 4-16GB Ram across five PC's
Pencil & Paper
BMus MM (Musicology)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 31 Jan 02:54AM
Wait..please let me understand--Joe,your response raises many questions--

>requested features on IdeaScale.

1) Ideascale, which you once publicly admitted was a pure sham, however said in your own words--after all the outrage and yelling from us users here you're FINALLY using it the actual way it was intended, and believed to be set up to be used and wasnt from day one? What took so long Joe?
And are you ONLY picking things your "tech" teams--all THREE of them now-- can fix or bolt on, without hopefully doing much damage, and leaving out much needed fixes, and notation improvements which MANY users keep asking for, and instead are ignored, or get the famed "tumbleweed"?

I still shake my head in disbelief about whats being done with three tech teams in three different countries, and two product designers, and what was done with ONE Daniel, and ONE tech team in ONE place did..and AVID fired them..it really is sad, Joe.

>as well as fixing the top 5 causes of crashes,

OMG..so you fixed either:

a) long term crashes which should have been fixed wayyy before now and your tech teams lacked the skill to do so or
b) stuff thats recently crashing caused by your tech team programming "features" and breaking OTHER stuff?

Im sorry--which is it Joe?

>Avid is going through a significant transformation at levels way beyond my role and Sibelius as a product, and of course no one likes seeing colleagues go.

Ahh..so youre actually NOT privy to if SIb is also going to be seeing layoffs, yet you keep saying they wont?

>We've got a strong team together of incredibly experienced programmers.

"Incredibly experienced programmers", Joe? OMG--please Joe--dont insult my intelligence. Does this include the ones in Kiev who couldnt cut it, and thus Montreal was set up, and now we hear first mention of ANOTHER team in Poland? and with these "incredibly experienced programmers" Joe..Sib 8 and 8.1 was ALL they could come up with?
(IIRC Sib 7.5 was almost ALL Daniel et al's work, as could also possibly be SIb 8 and 8.1,, yet you are taking bows for it)

>We are making a concerted effort to listen and respond to the concerns of our users. I don't expect to fix everything overnight.

OMG..is this REALLY true? FINALLY after all that had to be done to be listened to, or just more of this "remedial PR" being so heftily thrown about?. You repeat it awfully much, but I still see things like the subscription plan in place, hefty punishment if you fall of the wagon, etc etc..Of course you'll say its beyond your control, as usual, instead of doing something about it..
In fact I was just looking today for an old post by Sam which said they were rethinking that hefty punishment, and no one responded to it at that time. Whatever happened to that?

>I welcome constructive criticism. Many of the fixes in 8.1 are directly as a result of conversations I've had with users on this very forum. We're actively sharing our roadmap with our beta testers these days too. You can expect more of that going forward.

ALL of this is coming about as a result of you NOT doing this in the past, and users not accepting it, and speaking up and you losing users.., And now things are supposed to STAY this way? And again, I hear a VERY loud outcry for bug fixes LONG overdue, and notation improvements which are going unanswered? Why arent you listening to THOSE users also, Joe?
The belief is that your THREE tech teams simply lack the ability to do such things, although being such "incredibly experienced programmers"....

Sorry Joe..count me out as a believer of any of this, but I sure do wish it was true. But Im too old, fat, and sick to accept this same kind of bs AGAIN. Its just an insult to those who know better, and have been around, and arent taken in with the"friends" stuff, but love Sib and have been using it faithfully for years, and see what its become..and becoming..

Thanks Bob

PS I mulled it over long and hard whether to post this or not, but Joes response simple couldnt go by unchallenged. And I do realize many users are "friends' with Joe on FB, and anything said here might be construed as attacking a friend of yours--but it has to do with Sib, only... Also, I havent tried Sib 8 or the "new Sib" or whatever else its now called, as Im seriously NOT impressed enough by any of it, though this rest avoidance feature seems to be well spoken of.. I still consider mp3 conversion a nothing feature that took literally, a few seconds with a FREE good 3rd party conversion, and is being touted by many as the greatest thing since sliced bread, mostly I think because they dont know of these programs that do it simply, fast and elegantly, or it wouldnt seem like such a big deal. Again for Macs theres XLD: http://sourceforge.net/projects/xld/

And as for the timing of the latest update--how fortuitous that it was released at the very same time when NAMM was here! Why was it held back, Joe?

PPS Gotta stop now..I need medicine, a good woman, chocolate, and a new lease on life..and ALL i have is, yeah you guessed it-- the medicine--LOL:)

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 31 Jan 11:27AM
Ive just looked at the top 3 new features of Sib 8.1 in relation to Joe saying they were taken from Ideascale, as they were listening more to users, which IMHO theyre making an overtly HUGE deal over, trying to win the users hearts minds and $$ back.

However unless Im misreading them, they ALL three carry the submitted date of JAN 2013, and the ideas are #64 ,rest avoidance; #110, Perfect repeat endings; and #80 for mp3 conversion. (Pls see attachments).

Are these the correct ideas that were used as the basis for the top features of Sib 8.1?

Did each one of these top three features take at LEAST 3 years or more to come to fruition? Thats an EXTREMELY long amount of time, and if so, and somehow doesnt quite gel with the idea of "listening to users"..

Thanks Bob

The top three new features are:

http://www.avidblogs.com/sibelius-8-1-now-available-whats-new/

Sibelius 8.1 Now Available—What’s New
Intelligent Rests – enhanced Magnetic Layout

Inserting rests into your music just got a whole lot easier. Now any time a rest is created, the newly enhanced Magnetic Layout tool automatically re-positions the rest to align optimally with the phrasing of your surrounding notes. Rests in multi-voice staves also automatically re-position to avoid collisions. Not only does this eliminate having to manually fix note and rest bump-ups, it makes your score much easier to read. Check out the before and after examples below. This is the first time any application has built-in algorithms to avoid rest collisions and support for intelligent positioning of rests.
>

Could someone please clarify for me--is this what was requested way back in Jan 2013 as a "long standing bug"? If so its now fixed over three years later?? Idea #64

Pls see here, and attachment:

http://sibelius.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Rests-do-not-avoid-notes-in-other-voices/103216-22221#idea-tab-comments

--------
Get perfect repeated endings
If you’ve ever written music with first, second, and third time bars, you may have spent some time fixing lines that Sibelius created a bit too long. That’s not the case anymore. With the layout improvements, you can now create multiple time ending bars that appear and play back just the way you expect them to.
>

Again requested from Jan 2013??? Idea #110

http://sibelius.ideascale.com/a/dtd/First-ending-too-long/103476-22221

-----
Share your music more easily—MP3 export
Want to let your client, colleague, or friends hear your latest composition? You now have the option of exporting your score as an MP3 audio file, making it faster and easier to send your music through email or over Skype, or even posting it across all of your social network channels. Not only do you have control over the bit rate and sample rate, Sibelius will automatically generate ID3 tags from your Score Info dialog.
>

AGAIN, the same Jan 2013 request date, Idea #80?

http://sibelius.ideascale.com/a/dtd/MP3-export-directly-in-Sibelius/103291-22221

---

Links, and a screen grab is provided.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito
Attachment Screen Shot 2016-01-31 at 12.20.31 AM.png (608K)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 31 Jan 12:45PM
Yes, Sibelius development has been moribund for several years.

It MAY have just been kicked back into life.

I wouldn't waste your time on semiotic analysis of the press releases.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 31 Jan 01:18PM
Just followed this link to see what 8.1 has to offer,

http://www.avidblogs.com/sibelius-8-1-now-available-whats-new/

I am not at all impressed with the new rest formatting. Why? See attached.

C'mon, Avid. Surely Kiev, Monteal & Warsaw can come up with something better than this between them. At least the Cambridge & London guys had a grounding in musicology & theory.
Attachment Rests.PNG.png (108K)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 31 Jan 01:31PM

Yes, that example makes it look a bit silly.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Robin Walker - 31 Jan 01:46PM
Adrian, if you want the Voice 2 rests all in a line, you should try adjusting the Engraving Rules for Rests (new in 8.1).

Combining parallel voice rests into a single rest is not part of the 8.1 changes. I think it is a matter of taste whether one would want to do that. If two orchestral players are reading their divisi parts, they might prefer to see their own rests in line with their own notes.

--
Sibelius 8.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Chris Crawley - 31 Jan 01:57PM
Adrian, I think the situation is more complicated than you imply. I've read Gould carefully on this and she points out that first of all you need to know if the stave concerned is for more than one instrument (or voice, in the choral sense). If so, notes plus all rests to make up the full value of the bar should be shown. She also says that notes plus rests which make up an individual beat should be aligned, as per your comment on the second (Sib 8.1) example (though we do not have a time signature to help us). If the stave is for e.g. piano, then more economy with rests may be used, as in your final example. Even then, if the writing is strictly contrapuntal, the previous rule would apply.

Clearly, Sib 8.1 doesn't get it right, though I imagine it's beyond the capability of any algorithm to deal with all of the complexities here.

--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 31 Jan 04:51PM
And, of course, Gould is not Holy Writ.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Chris Crawley - 31 Jan 05:20PM
"Gould is not Holy Writ." Is she at fault in this particular instance? If her principle is followed, is there not clarity and elegance?

And surely that's what the discussion is about here (as always): how to convey clearly in notation to the reader of the music what is to be played; and how to do so in a manner pleasing, and not distracting, to the eye.

"Not everyone will be in agreement with my conclusions," she writes in the Introduction to Behind Bars, but it's hard to see what is exceptionable here.


--
Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using Sibelius 7.1.3, NotePerformer, Windows 8.1 64-bit, Intel Core i7 3.30GHz, 64GB RAM, DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Roy Moore - 31 Jan 05:25PM (edited 31 Jan 06:03PM)
Defaults need to make correct decisions most of the time. My experience of about 450 bars in scores with keyboards and many two voice staves is that 8.1 does. I had to edit some keyboard sections, but even that was easier than previously as rests are always visible and never hidden behind a notehead in another voice.

Adrian's example is interesting. At first sight I thought that example 2 was obviously incorrect. But.. if it were a keyboard part I would certainly hide the duplicate rests, in the (unlikely) event that this were for S/A or T/B I might leave the rests.

Gould says (page 313) "In strict contrapuntal writing, each part takes separate stems and rests throughout"

Much of the guidance seems contradictory.

I can envisage needing both to hide and to show duplicate rests in the same score.

Magnetic Layout doesn't get it right all of the time, placing of rests seems a much more complex problem.

--
Roy Moore
London UK (2016)
Sib 7.5,8.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD
Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd
Various East West, Hollywood Strings, Note Performer




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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 31 Jan 05:00PM
> C'mon, Avid. Surely Kiev, Monteal & Warsaw can come up with something better than this between them. At least the Cambridge & London guys had a grounding in musicology & theory.

What I think you're looking for is the automatic sharing of rests between voices when possible.

For now the workflow in that case is exactly the same as it was in previous versions - either delete the rest in v2, and Sibelius should move the voice 1 down into the centre of the stave, or use the plug-in.
--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 31 Jan 09:49PM (edited 31 Jan 09:49PM)
It hurts to admit that Avid may have got one thing fairly right (at last) doesn't it! :-)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 31 Jan 11:24PM
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 31 Jan 17:00
What I think you're looking for is the automatic sharing of rests between voices when possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No, Joe. The point I was making is that, even tho' Sib.8 prevents rests from crashing into notes, the rests are still very badly positioned. So if I bought the upgrade, I would still have to move rests about to make the score look presentable, just as I do in Sib.7 and have done in previous versions.

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 31 Jan 11:39PM
> MP3 export is one of our top requested features on IdeaScale. It's no coincidence therefore that we added it in 8.1. Of course, that's not the only feature we added, with the new rest collision avoidance feature, also sourced from IdeaScale, as well as fixing the top 5 causes of crashes, and several other improvements.
> ...
As I've said before, the IdeaScale counts the number of people voting "yes" and "no", but has no clue to the relative importance of those items to the voters.

An obvious case in point is the MP3 export. Of course many people doing audio exports would think this is a good idea. I do. But everybody doing audio exports (and needing MP3) already has a way converting the Sibelius export to MP3. MP3 export is a good idea, but it's not a very necessary one.

Likewise, correcting the repeat ending brackets. I originally voted for that one, too. It would have been a great addition to Sibelius if an infinite number of developers and programmers were working on enhancements. But everyone needing ending brackets knows how to fix them with little effort.

Until the IdeaScale asks for the relative importance of a vote, the tabulated results are little more than window dressing.

The avoiding rest collisions would have been (for me)a more important fix because I have to turn to reference books to correct the problem. Unfortunately, it looks like I would *still* have to turn to the reference books to correct Sibelius' "corrected" positioning. So the Avid team sort of misses that one, too.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by James - 01 Feb 01:05AM (edited 01 Feb 01:06AM)
>The point I was making is that, even tho' Sib.8 prevents rests from crashing into notes, the rests are still very badly positioned.

If you have any hope of something being done about this you must be extremely specific about the algorithm you want. Something like, "rests should be horizontally aligned." But also exactly what should be done if they are very high or low relative to the stave. And what should be done in any other exceptional circumstances. Then you are thinking like someone who can tell a programmer what to do.

Of course, we can all argue about it, too.

--
Mac OS 10.9 Mavericks
Sibelius 6.2

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Bob Morabito - 01 Feb 01:28AM
>If you have any hope of something being done about this you must be extremely specific about the algorithm you want. Something like, "rests should be horizontally aligned." But also exactly what should be done if they are very high or low relative to the stave. And what should be done in any other exceptional circumstances. Then you are thinking like someone who can tell a programmer what to do.


Im sorry..there are THREE development teams working on this, all "incredibly experienced programmers" and TWO product designers--all of whom are being paid to do this as their job, and are responsible for getting the job done.

And we WONT go into the huge part of them "getting the job done".

Yet you feel a USER must specify an algorithm to all of these profeessional people working on a music notation program to have the job correctly done, when THEY should ALREADY know how to do it?

What the heck are all these people being paid for then?

Sorry-- I dont understand this at all.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

https://soundcloud.com/bob-morabito

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Peter Roos - 01 Feb 02:04AM
Well ... here's my $0.02 on this. The word "Avid" works as a red flag on most of the folks here, but let's stay level headed.

1. This only affects the Pro Tools division, nothing to do with Sibelius.

2. My educated guess is that Avid is trying to trim fat, as in, getting rid of unnecessary middle management, and maybe people they don't need right now. But that is pure speculation, based upon what I read on the Avid Duc forum.

3. Remember, Pro Tools was once almighty - mid 90s - and then it gained the reputation of the Uber audio recording solution it is still trying to sell today. For sure, it is very sophisticated, and still the standard in high end studios around the world, but for people with a home recording studio there is no reason in the world to splurge $$$ on Pro Tools -- they are far better off with programs like Reaper (which are more powerful, and far more stable).

4. Sibelius development is really two guys, Joe and Sam, who are the joint conductors of a group of one or two dozen programmers, spread around the world (Montreal, Poland, Ukraine (?), Daly City (?), London (?)). They probably have a couple of senior managers to whom they report. In the end of the day they don't get to decide how many millions $ are spent on Sibelius every year. That's just not how it works in big corporations.

5. Yes, I agree, Avid's executive management should take a serious pay cut, but it ain't gonna happen. That's just the way the corporate world works. Unfortunately.

If you want to read the reactions of Pro Tools users, go here:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=377218

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 01 Feb 02:09AM
Actually, the idea of extremely specific algorithms and development teams creating a good solution are not mutually exclusive. The Sibelius developers should develop (should have developed) a default set of rules that look reasonable and/or follow Read / Gould guidelines. And there could be optional, user-specified overrides to the default engraving rules. James may be right that the developers can't be expected to cover all unique circumstances. But Bob is certainly correct in saying that the job of the developers is to implement accurate engraving in a music engraving tool like Sibelius. That's their job.

It sounds like the the developers came up with technical "avoidance" algorithm rather than a reasonable engraving algorithm. Yes, it's better than it was - we can see the rests now. But this part of Sibelius would not pass engraving school.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 01 Feb 03:36AM
May we assume that those who are slating the magnetic rests feature have downloaded the 8.1 demo and tried it? Or are opinions based on second-hand examples which were specifically concocting hard cases?

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Adrian Drover - 01 Feb 09:17AM (edited 01 Feb 09:19AM)
My opinions are based on what I see in:

http://www.avidblogs.com/sibelius-8-1-now-available-whats-new/

and what I see is dreadful examples of music engraving which I could not possibly ignore in the work that I produce. It surprises me that the guys working for Avid (and specifically Sib development) don't recognize the new rest placements as visually disgraceful before they publish their examples of "improvements". Have these guys any idea what professional engraving is supposed to look like? What is the point of upgrading if the user still has the same amount of work to do in correcting Sib's "intelligent" defaults?

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Roy Moore - 01 Feb 09:50AM (edited 01 Feb 09:50AM)
Here's an example of a piano part received today in 7 .5 then opened in 8.1
--
Roy Moore
London UK (2016)
Sib 7.5,8.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD
Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd
Various East West, Hollywood Strings, Note Performer



Attachments 0148 Sib 7-5 rests.PNG.png (38K), 0149 Sib 8-1 rests.PNG.png (37K)

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Peter McAleer - 01 Feb 01:38PM
Surely the point is that, finally, Sibelius has come up with a fresh notation feature that's really needed and appreciated. It also means that, evidently, there are programmers associated with Sibelius development that actually know a bit about what they're doing (I don't really are where they are btw). That should be encouraging. Any new feature is bound to have its problems when exposed to the big outside world. You also have here Joe and others who are trying their best to help in next to impossible circumstances.

What we need to be worried about is Avid the company, which is walking from one gaff to another with monotonous regularity and has a reputation for losing money whilst lining its executives' pockets.

I also have reservations about the very idea of IdeaScale because relying solely on that betrays a lack of direction and grip.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.5; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.10.5 ('Yosemite')

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Laurence Payne - 01 Feb 03:56PM
Yes, I think Ideascale has been over-emphasised by both sides.

--
FAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/sibelius.html
If you want help with a score, attach the sib file!

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Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favourite company...
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 01 Feb 04:01PM
There are lots of channels of feedback we look at besides IdeaScale, not least this forum. Whilst I don't chip in on every thread, I do read each one.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

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Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's favou... - Laurence Payne, 28 Jan 11:57PM
     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Rob Tuley, 29 Jan 01:38AM
         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 04:51AM
             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Neil Sands, 29 Jan 06:35AM
                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 29 Jan 07:22AM
                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter McAleer, 29 Jan 07:39AM
                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 29 Jan 10:20AM
                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 10:37AM
                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Tony Wakefield, 29 Jan 11:35AM
                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 02:11PM
                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 02:21PM
                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 29 Jan 04:02PM
                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 29 Jan 04:26PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 29 Jan 05:18PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Jan 05:21PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 29 Jan 06:28PM
                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 29 Jan 06:38PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Philip Jones, 29 Jan 08:19PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 29 Jan 08:27PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 12:34AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 30 Jan 09:00AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Nicholas Freestone, 30 Jan 12:51PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Tony Cliff, 30 Jan 02:24PM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 30 Jan 03:16PM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 07:15PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 30 Jan 10:05PM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 30 Jan 09:14PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Greg Jones, 30 Jan 11:44PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 11:48PM
                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 30 Jan 11:46PM
                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 31 Jan 12:31AM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 31 Jan 01:21AM
                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 31 Jan 02:54AM
                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 31 Jan 11:27AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 12:45PM
                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 31 Jan 01:18PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 01:31PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Robin Walker, 31 Jan 01:46PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 31 Jan 01:57PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 04:51PM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Chris Crawley, 31 Jan 05:20PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 31 Jan 05:25PM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 31 Jan 05:00PM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 31 Jan 09:49PM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 31 Jan 11:24PM
                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Patrick O'Keefe, 31 Jan 11:39PM
                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - James, 01 Feb 01:05AM
                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Bob Morabito, 01 Feb 01:28AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter Roos, 01 Feb 02:04AM
                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Patrick O'Keefe, 01 Feb 02:09AM
                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 01 Feb 03:36AM
                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Adrian Drover, 01 Feb 09:17AM
                                                                                                             Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Roy Moore, 01 Feb 09:50AM
                                                                                                                 Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Peter McAleer, 01 Feb 01:38PM
                                                                                                                     Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Laurence Payne, 01 Feb 03:56PM
                                                                                                                         Re: Sib. 8.x: More good news from everybody's f... - Joe @ Sibelius, 01 Feb 04:01PM