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'Finding out in which version a Sibelius score is saved'

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Finding out in which version a Sibelius score i... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 07:25AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 09:30AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 09:43AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 09:56AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 22 Nov 11:37AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 05:31PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Laurence Payne, 22 Nov 07:24PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 23 Nov 12:10PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 23 Nov 05:31PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 23 Nov 10:30PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 11:39PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 17 Sep 03:12PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 24 Sep 09:28AM

Finding out in which version a Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Nov 07:25AM (edited 22 Nov 09:46AM)

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The only approved way to tell what version a Sibelius score is saved in is to open the score in increasingly earlier versions of Sibelius until the file cannot be opened; the format is that of the lowest version that will open the file.

This assumes that you have several versions of Sibelius installed which is not true for most people.

Plugins can tell you which version a score was created in (see the Score Original Version plugin in category Other), but a score can be created in one version, then opened and saved in a later version. No plugin can tell what version the score was saved in.

A number of people have noted that if you look at the start of a Sibelius score in a hex editor/viewer, you can see unique information in the header which could be the current version. This has not been confirmed by anyone official, but this is probably the best chance we have to identify the format of a score. No guarantees, of course.

A friend who asks to remain uncredited sent me a chart of
the binary data at the start of scores created in different Sibelius versions, and I am sharing it here. He includes a link to a free hex viewer.

I note that it appears that 7.5 and 8 use the same identifier, even if there is annotation data in the version 8 score. Such a score cannot be opened in 7.5 or any earlier version. It can be converted to MusicXML in Sib 8, of course. You will not be able to differentiate such scores using the binary data.

********************************************************
I have files created in all versions of Sibelius through 7.1.3. I've opened them in the Binary Viewer (available free at http://www.proxoft.com/binaryViewer.aspx) with the following results:

Sibelius file versions - opening bytes:

All versions begin with the byte 0F (15 decimal) followed by the ASCII string "SIBELIUS" (bytes 1-8) followed by two null bytes (9-10) followed by byte 11 (decimal, starting from 0), which can be used to identify the version:

VERSION  HEX  DECIMAL ASCII



  1       02     2

  2       08     8

  3       0A    10

  4       1B    27

  5       2D    45      -

  6       36    54      6

  7.1.3   39    57      9





Here are 2 more versions



  7.5.1   3D    61      = 

  8.0.1   3D    61      =

(edit - unfortunately the font changes so that table looks bad - see the screenshot for how it should look)

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015.

Attachment

snap1.png (18K)

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Nov 09:30AM (edited 22 Nov 09:31AM)

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Here's another table, including the sub-versions:



Bytes 10-13  Sibelius version

-----------  ----------------

00-08-00-22  Sibelius 2.latest

00-0A-00-1F  Sibelius 3.latest

00-1B-00-1F  Sibelius 4.latest

00-2D-00-03  Sibelius 5.0

00-2D-00-0D  Sibelius 5.1

00-2D-00-10  Sibelius 5.2.x

00-36-00-01  Sibelius 6.0.x

00-36-00-17  Sibelius 6.1

00-36-00-1E  Sibelius 6.2

00-39-00-0C  Sibelius 7.0.0

00-39-00-0E  Sibelius 7.0.1/7.0.2

00-39-00-13  Sibelius 7.0.3

00-39-00-15  Sibelius 7.1.0

00-39-00-16  Sibelius 7.1.2/7.1.3

00-3D-00-0E  Sibelius 7.5.x

00-3D-00-10  Sibelius 8.0.x

--
Sibelius 8.0.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Nov 09:43AM

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Interesting, Robin. So it seems that byte 13 can be used to determine the minor Sib version.

That is not normally required to tell if a score can be opened by a given version of Sibelius, but it might let us differentiate 7.5 and 8.0.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Nov 09:56AM

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Yes, and bytes 14-15 are related to the size of the file, but only approximately. As a big-endian 16-bit integer, they give the approximate size of the file in sectors (units of 512 bytes), but it is not the exact number of sectors.

Bob, if you have Sibelius score files from known sub-versions of Sibelius 1, 2, 3, or 4, could you let me know the file version bytes for them?

--
Sibelius 8.0.1/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 Nov 11:37AM

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Are you talking about our own music on our own computers?

Wouldn`t the Sib version number 5:6:7, 7.1, 7.5: 8 or whatever, written next to the title be sufficient? This is what I do.
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Nov 05:31PM

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Tony,

If you have scores on your own computer and never open and save scores in a different version of Sibelius than the version it was created in, then you can successfully label the version of Sibelius in the score file name.

If you ever open a score in a later version of Sibelius and save it, the score will be converted to the new format, and the file name information will be wrong.

If you get scores from anyone else, you have no good way to know what version they are saved it; you can open scores with your version of Sibelius if its version is greater than or equal to the version the file was saved in, but opening a score from, say Sib 3, in Sib 7.5 will cause conversions to take place, which could affect the layout, and to some users it is important not to change the layout at all.

In such cases, if you know the saved version of a score, and have multiple versions of Sibelius installed, then you could choose an appropriate version of Sibelius to open the score with.

This is not an issue for most users. I have encountered this working with publishers.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Laurence Payne - 22 Nov 07:24PM

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This isn't that rare an issue. A collaborative enterprise is quite likely to involve users with different versions. (It may be coincidence, but the majority of people who have at one time or another employed me for assistence with a score have stuck with earlier versions, usually now Sibelius 6.)

I don't want to mess around with using two seperate Sibelius versions, so I work in 7.5. Naturally I frequently press Ctrl-S, saving the work in progress - in Sibelius 7.5 format.

I remember to Export a Sibelius 6 version to send to the client. Usually :-)

Also, as Bob says, a surprising number of publishers have stuck with pre-Sibelius 6 versions. Which can be a considerable nuisance, when they want to receive sib files rather than PDFs.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 23 Nov 12:10PM (edited 23 Nov 12:11PM)

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> Tony,
>
> If you have scores on your own computer and never open and save scores in a different version of Sibelius than the version it was created in, then you can successfully label the version of Sibelius in the score file name.
>
> If you ever open a score in a later version of Sibelius and save it, the score will be converted to the new format, and the file name information will be wrong.

Bob - I can work on something which was originally in 6, saved as 6, open it in 7 and save it immediately as 7, and I then have two different files which I can open using either version.

> If you get scores from anyone else, you have no good way to know what version they are saved it; you can open scores with your version of Sibelius if its version is greater than or equal to the version the file was saved in, but opening a score from, say Sib 3, in Sib 7.5 will cause conversions to take place, which could affect the layout, and to some users it is important not to change the layout at all.

Bob - If one is working with an unknown client, then that client has to understand which version to send. If he cannot, then he must agree that his own set up is not compatible, and ask a colleague to convert for him.
If `I` have to `mess around` then this will increase the size of the final invoice. For example, I will need to spend days finding someone with ver 3, or 4 Yes? No?

> In such cases, if you know the saved version of a score, and have multiple versions of Sibelius installed, then you could choose an appropriate version of Sibelius to open the score with.
>
> This is not an issue for most users. I have encountered this working with publishers.

Bob - But how many music processors (copyists) these days possess all versions? The main and emminent writers days have the latest version, and probably wouldn`t employ a copyist who didn`t have the same version. Certainly, both would need the ability to communicate immediately.
I.e. "Outer Mongolian musician seeks composer/copyist to work on a CSIRAC music project". :)
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 23 Nov 05:31PM

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Tony,

What you say is true, and in most cases one has good control over the versions a score is saved in.

I occasionally have jobs to write plugins for publishers who have great mishmashes of scores from various versions of Sibelius and who want to know where they came from. In such cases, they do in fact have different versions of Sibelius available.

Also, for example, there is a bug in the German version of the plugin Convert Folder Of Scores to Earlier Version that can produce a score in a different version than it said it was producing. The recipient may be surprised, or they might be able to open it but it was a Sib 5 rather than Sib 6 format file, and Magnetic Layout is not available, so they layout changes can be more significant than what was expected.

So there are definitely times when it is useful or important to know which format the score has been saved in, especially, though not exclusively, when the scores come from other users.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 23 Nov 10:30PM

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Good one Bob - thanks for clarifying.

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Nov 11:39PM

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I will send something in email
--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Sep 03:12PM

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I thought it was time to update this list:



Bytes 10-13   Sibelius version

-----------   ----------------

00 08 xx xx - Sibelius 2.x

00 0A xx xx - Sibelius 3.x

00 1B xx xx - Sibelius 4.x

00 2D 00 03 - Sibelius 5.0

00 2D 00 0D - Sibelius 5.1

00 2D 00 10 - Sibelius 5.2.x

00 36 00 01 - Sibelius 6.0.x

00 36 00 17 - Sibelius 6.1

00 36 00 1E - Sibelius 6.2

00 39 00 0C - Sibelius 7.0.0

00 39 00 0E - Sibelius 7.0.1 - 7.0.2

00 39 00 13 - Sibelius 7.0.3

00 39 00 15 - Sibelius 7.1.0

00 39 00 16 - Sibelius 7.1.2 - 7.1.3

00 3D 00 0E - Sibelius 7.5.x

00 3D 00 10 - Sibelius 8.0.x

00 3E 00 00 - Sibelius 8.1.x

00 3E 00 01 - Sibelius 8.2

00 3E 00 02 - Sibelius 8.3

00 3E 00 06 - Sibelius 8.4.x

00 3E 00 07 - Sibelius 8.5.x

00 3F 00 00 - Sibelius 8.6.x, 8.7.0, 8.7.1

00 3F 00 01 - Sibelius 8.7.2, 2018.1, 2018.4.x, 2018.5, 2018.6, 2018.7

00 3F 00 02 - Sibelius 2018.11, 2018.12

00 3F 00 04 - Sibelius 2019.1

00 3F 00 06 - Sibelius 2019.4.x, 2019.5, 2019.7, 2019.9

00 3F 00 07 - Sibelius 2019.12

00 3F 00 0A - Sibelius higher versions when exported to previous format of 8.6-2019.12

00 3F 00 0B - Sibelius 2020.1

00 40 00 01 - Sibelius 2020.3, 2020.6

00 40 00 02 - Sibelius 2020.9

--
Sibelius 2020.6/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 2020.1, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book.

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius score is saved
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 24 Sep 09:28AM

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Thanks for the update, Robin.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2020+, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2020.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/sibelius/
Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/

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Messages in this thread

Finding out in which version a Sibelius score i... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 07:25AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 09:30AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 09:43AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 09:56AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 22 Nov 11:37AM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 05:31PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Laurence Payne, 22 Nov 07:24PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 23 Nov 12:10PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 23 Nov 05:31PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Tony Wakefield, 23 Nov 10:30PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Nov 11:39PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Robin Walker, 17 Sep 03:12PM

Re: Finding out in which version as Sibelius sc... - Bob Zawalich, 24 Sep 09:28AM