Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 11 Nov 05:55AM Hide picture Is there a feature hidden somewhere deep in the software that allows the entry of the note name to be followed by the accidental similar to the way someone would say it? F sharp B flat A natural instead of the wacky sharp F flat B natural A I don't know of a single musician who says it the second way... Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Adrian Drover - 11 Nov 07:50AM Hide picture Of course you can. Text (Technique) example attached. In what context do you need this? Attachment note names.PNG.png (4K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Roy Moore - 11 Nov 08:21AM Hide picture Are you asking about text (as answered by Adrian above) or note entry from the computer keyboard? If the latter: There is an inconsistency in Sibelius between inputting new notes and re-pitching existing notes from the computer keyboard. Inputting notes to a blank bar you select the accidental first, if you re-pitch (using Alt+Shift+N) change the pitch then add the accidental. -- Roy Moore London UK (2015) Sib 7.5,8.0.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd Various East West, Hollywood Strings Gold, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 11 Nov 06:36PM Hide picture I am asking within the context of inputting new notes. Nobody says or thinks "Sharp F." Commonly accepted musical thinking is "F Sharp" thus the keystrokes should be "an F" and "a sharp." Would love to hear that I just have something set wrong... Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Cause - 11 Nov 07:01PM (edited 11 Nov 07:08PM) Hide picture > Nobody says or thinks "Sharp F." I do, sometimes. Whenever I write an F# on a staff, I write the sharp sign first, then the notehead on the F line or space, to the right of the sharp sign. It seems perfectly normal to do things in that same order with Sibelius. -- Cause Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Mike Lyons - 11 Nov 09:00PM Hide picture Indeed - Sibelius is meant to work a little like pen and paper and you do things in a certain order. Or do you write the note first and then go through and add the accidentals? Seems an odd way to work to me! -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 11 Nov 09:11PM Hide picture Regardless of notational convention, would be great to notate the way we speak. A sharp-not sharp A The software can then place the accidental where it needs to go. This would be a much faster way to input Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Nov 10:10PM (edited 11 Nov 10:11PM) Hide picture This (attached) selection of Note Input preferences may suit you. You enter the letter name, then the keypad key for duration, then #, b or nat if required. So it's F, crotchet, #. There are disadvantages to this method. But I'm not going to tell you what, in case it spoils you liking it! Attachment Capture.PNG.png (57K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Robert Enns - 12 Nov 12:17AM Hide picture Preference aside, I can't see why it would be faster to enter F and then # rather than the reverse. Same keystrokes. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Bob Zawalich - 12 Nov 01:12AM Hide picture It's all about how you think of it. Having to translate in your head adds an extra distance between you and the music. It think it makes sense to have it as an option, and it appears to be there. -- Bob An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 8 G RAM. Year 2015. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 12 Nov 01:49AM Hide picture I agree with it being an option. To me, the note between F and G is called either an F# or a Gb. I've yet to find anyone in the world who names them sharp F or flat G. Solfeggio taught me to be perfectly comfortable with the "extra distance" of having a pitch name for the notes. :) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Robert Enns - 12 Nov 02:08AM Hide picture All I can say is that since I was 5 years old I've always said F# for F with a sharp just as any musician does. But when using Sibelius I've never "thought" about that when entering notes. It never occurred to me that it was an awkward thing strange as that may seem. -- Rob Win 10 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, NotePerformer, GPO4, Photoscore 8.0.4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Nov 08:00AM (edited 12 Nov 08:02AM) Hide picture Posted by Christy Coobatis - 12 Nov 01:49 I've yet to find anyone in the world who names them sharp F or flat G. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it's not how we say it that's wrong, but how we notate it that's wrong. Who cares? I've lived with it for 70 years and never lost a night's sleep thinking about it. There are plenty of ambiguities in written music. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Nov 09:15AM Hide picture We don't PLAY an F then sharp it, or a sharp then F it. It's an entity. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Nov 12:01PM Hide picture I was about to reply to that, Laurence, but changed my mind for fear of being barred from the forum forever. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Mike Lyons - 12 Nov 04:38PM Hide picture Has that happened to anyone recently? -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 12 Nov 05:01PM Hide picture guitar players and singers do :) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 12 Nov 05:00PM Hide picture thanks Laurence. Will try it.. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Richard Mix - 14 Nov 02:32AM (edited 14 Nov 02:36AM) Hide picture > The software can then place the accidental where it needs to go. To the right of the note head? The nose of the camel ;-) The pitch followed by rhythm option makes sense though. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 14 Nov 02:49AM Hide picture As clarification of the original post. It would be wonderful to be able to type according to the way we speak with the name of the note first and the accidental second. The software of course will still place the accidental to the left of the note. Would be more accommodating to those who think of notation software as a word processor rather than as a substitute for writing by hand. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Nov 11:47AM Hide picture Were you brought up on a word processor where you got italics by typing (i) before the text, or one where you selected it then pressed Ctrl-I? I think you'd find the standard Sibelius input method more fluent once adjusted to. But you have other options. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Roy Moore - 14 Nov 12:07PM Hide picture Christy, What's your view on: ten pounds/dollars/euros £10 $10 €10 ? If speed is an issue, inputting via a midi keyboard is much faster, even if your keyboard skills are limited. You then only have to deal with re-spelling accidentals. -- Roy Moore London UK (2015) Sib 7.5,8.0.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd Various East West, Hollywood Strings Gold, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Nov 12:28PM Hide picture > If speed is an issue, inputting via a midi keyboard is much faster, even if your keyboard skills are limited. You then only have to deal with re-spelling accidentals. > Which is a simple matter of hitting Enter to toggle b/# (but not x or bb unfortunately). Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Rob Tuley - 14 Nov 01:17PM Hide picture If we're going to have a revolution, let's do it properly. Nobody talks about "quarter notes dotted" (not in English, anyway) so let's change music notation to put rhythm dots *before* the notes they apply to, as in "dotted quarter notes". And change the Sibelius input as well, if you want. Hey, then we can start another war about whether the rhythm dots should go before or after the accidentals ..... -- Rob Sib 4.1, Windows 7. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Cause - 14 Nov 02:51PM Hide picture > (not in English, anyway) That's an interesting point. The order of symbols in music notation is not necessarily matched to the order of lexical tokens in any individual language. And even the order of tokens in a spoken language may not match the order of tokens in the corresponding written language. I consider hand-written notation to be the paradigm that I want Sibelius notation to follow, but it's nice to have software that allows various different use cases for different users. -- Cause Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Nov 07:17PM Hide picture Sometimes a computer reveals the logical inconstencies in our learnt thought processes. We can use this fact to clarify our thinking, or we can force the computer to conform to the illogical way. I fully understand the mindset that prefers the opposite stance. But cannot endorse or encourage it. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Steve - 14 Nov 10:51PM Hide picture >Sometimes a computer reveals the logical inconstencies in our learnt thought processes. We can use this fact to clarify our thinking [...] I'm thinking of Adrian's comment in a different thread about date formats. I grew up in the US using MM-DD-YY. Now we use MM-DD-YYYY. DD-MM-YYYY is more logical but wouldn't it make even more sense to use YYYY-MM-DD everywhere? Dates in this format sort numerically and chronologically (if you are sorting from the left, which is another ethnocentric bias I suppose). -- Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015. http://ComposersofSibelius.com Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Cause - 15 Nov 12:10AM Hide picture I've been using YYYY-MM-DD for about fifteen years. It's really the only truly international standard. There had always been confusion between the US inside-out system and the European backwards system, which became even more confusing when the two-digit years became low numbers. YYYY-MM-DD goes forward (most significant digit to least, like most ordered numbering systems). And unlike systems using two digits for the year, it's not century-ambiguous. ISO 8601. -- Cause Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 15 Nov 03:10AM (edited 15 Nov 08:04PM) Hide picture Roy, My sentiment is that present indications of money denominations make sense for keeping track of 1) unit of measurement 2) value in that order. This is a similar system for the encoding of data streams that are incongruous with common language syntax. I guess these are just more funny conventions that detach us from the thought process. We here in the US are still holding out on using the decimal system... Kind Regards > Christy, > > What's your view on: > > ten pounds/dollars/euros £10 $10 €10 ? > > If speed is an issue, inputting via a midi keyboard is much faster, even if your keyboard skills are limited. You then only have to deal with re-spelling accidentals. > > -- > Roy Moore > London UK (2015) > Sib 7.5,8.0.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD > Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd > Various East West, Hollywood Strings Gold, Note Performer > > > > Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by John Fletcher - 15 Nov 07:46AM Hide picture And I always thought it odd that, here in Britain, we wrote addresses on envelopes in the wrong order. Our postmen have to read the address from the bottom up. And (again) to get back to music, why do some conductors say things like: Let's start on the third beat of the second bar of the fourth system on page 5 of Frank Bridge's songs by Finzi... So, I find the Finzi and then have to ask my neighbour, getting shouted at by said conductor for talking JohnF -- Music Editor / Engraver Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 8.0.4; GPO4.02 MacOS X Yosemite 10.10.1; iMac Retina 5K 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Christy Coobatis - 20 Nov 12:26PM (edited 20 Nov 12:37PM) Hide picture If you're moving along inputting note names via the QWERTY Keys, the thought process is the note name and the accidental, not the other way around. The other issue is if you're listening to the note entry sound and happen to enter a pitch that is an accidental away from the pitch you want, you have to key back with the directional arrows to the prior note and then return to the note you just entered to correct to the accidental. The accidental is not just a keystroke away. You have to move away from the keypad and then back again. That is my main complaint with not being able to enter the note name first and then the accidental. The having to go backwards and then forwards again to return to the note is a pain...Am I missing an existing setting to avoid this? Why can't there be an option along with the existing option "enter pitch then duration" and vice-versa to "enter pitch then accidental?" Considering the existing options, this seems like a reasonable and logical request. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Roy Moore - 20 Nov 12:48PM Hide picture Do you use 'n' to re-select the note you've just input? You could input F>n># -- Roy Moore London UK (2015) Sib 7.5,8.0.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd Various East West, Hollywood Strings Gold, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Mike Lyons - 21 Nov 08:31AM Hide picture Or you could simply do [ctrl]z to undo your mess and re-enter! I do that all the time. -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Nov 09:24AM (edited 21 Nov 09:27AM) Hide picture My [ctrl]z is getting upset that I haven't made a mess in a long time. And I never knew about n until Daniel changed the back-arrow function. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 Nov 10:38AM Hide picture I only recently discovered N, and have never found a need for it. The right choice of Preferences seems to get the back-arrow doing what my mind finds logical again. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Roy Moore - 21 Nov 10:39AM Hide picture Indeed, many useful shortcuts are not widely known - I'm left handed so 'n' is slightly closer than the back arrow. There's a list of factory shortcuts at the end of the manual but a couple are not listed which have been present since the early days of Sibelius: / (slash) then note value to enter slashed grace note (acciaccatura) .(full stop/period) then note value to enter unslashed grace note (appoggiatura) No need to enter main note first. -- Roy Moore London UK (2015) Sib 7.5,8.0.1-Win 10 pro x64 8gb ram,512gb SSD Laptop Win 10 pro x64-32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd Various East West, Hollywood Strings Gold, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 Nov 11:19AM Hide picture > Indeed, many useful shortcuts are not widely known - I'm left handed so 'n' is slightly closer than the back arrow. Closer to what? Funny how a violinist never dreams of stringing his instrument up backwards (all the clever stuff is done by the LH anyway), a trumpet player picking up a french horn doesn't even notice he's fingering with the "wrong" hand, pianists strive to be ambidextrous - but computer users (and a few guitarists) cling tenaciously to the concept of "handedness". I'm the same. All logic tells me that with computer in front of me, music keyboard to my right, my mouse should be under my left hand. But I don't :-) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Adrian Drover - 21 Nov 12:07PM Hide picture Have you tried using the mouse with your L.H., Laurence? It's really strange. But my left handed brother has no problem playing right handed trumpet. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: F# Posted by Mike Lyons - 21 Nov 08:01PM Hide picture "...a trumpet player picking up a french horn doesn't even notice he's fingering with the "wrong" hand..." Perhaps they do notice it, but are too polite to mention it. Or they think they're drunk again (much more likely! :-D ) -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads