'Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments'

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Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Michael Crump, 03 Sep 10:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Adrian Drover, 04 Sep 07:08AM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Philip Sparke, 04 Sep 07:36AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Philip R, 04 Sep 11:47AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Peter Jacobs, 04 Sep 02:48PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Laurence Payne, 04 Sep 03:05PM

Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Michael Crump - 03 Sep 10:07PM
I have a question about cues, but have a feeling there is no solution to this.

Let's say that we want to provide a cue in the flute part, taking the cue from a clarinet in B flat.

My publisher's standards state that the cue in the flute part should remain in B flat (it should NOT be transposed into C for the convenience of the flute player).

Is this possible in Sibelius? The 'Paste as cue' function always seems to tranpose the cue. I can't find an option that would prevent this action. In truth, I can see no advantage whatever in what the publisher wants, but have to comply with their requirements.

Will it be a matter of a pasting the cue and then using the Transpose function (from the Note Input tab) or is there a way of getting the desired result in one go?

Thanks!

Mike
--
Sibelius 7.1.3, Windows 7 Home Edition 64-bit (SP 1), GPO4, 8GB RAM, Quad-Core processor
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Adrian Drover - 04 Sep 07:08AM (edited 04 Sep 07:13AM)
I really do not understand why your publisher insists on having cues in clarinet pitch on the flute part. It would be most confusing if the flautist (flutist?) needed to cover the part. But if it has to be done, simply select the cue and transpose it up a maj.2nd. Feel free to pass my comment on to your publisher. I'm sure Sib's method of cueing is correct, at least logical.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Philip Sparke - 04 Sep 07:36AM
I suppose they could claim there is a difference between 'play in default' cues (which of course MUST be in the right key for the reader) and those added to help with counting etc. But in both cases, I see little logic in having the cues in the key of the cued instrument. (actually, no logic at all!)

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Philip R - 04 Sep 11:47AM
I've seen this a lot in older parts (especially opera parts for some reason). Sometimes the cues are in the key of the source part, sometimes they're in the key of the destination part, and sometimes they're in C regardless of the transposition!

Agreed with all here that cues should always be in the key of the destination instrument, but sometimes, you must appease the client.

The short answer is, no, you cannot make Sibelius do this automatically; you will have to transpose the cue.

--
Sibelius 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Mac 10.9.5
Mac Pro (Late 2013) 32 GB RAM
http://www.nycmusicservices.com/
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Peter Jacobs - 04 Sep 02:48PM
My biggest problem with cues can be illustrated as follows:
At the beginning of a song, I have a pick-up bar with a specific drum-set figure.
I want to paste the drum-cue into the beginning of the bass-player's chart so he will feel confident coming in on his first note. But the drum cue on the bass part ends up being several ledger-lines above the staff. I have to transpose it down. It should leave the drum cue looking like the way it was written on the drummer's part. Cues taken from a percussion cliff should behave like the rhythm-slashes and never transpose.

Pete Jacobs
-Pop/Jazz Arranger
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments
Posted by Laurence Payne - 04 Sep 03:05PM
There's a double whammy in this situation - the drum clef is treated as a variant of the treble clef, and bass is notated an octave higher than sounding. Hence the telegraph poles!

Ideally, I'd like both piano and bass in my example to have the drum cue notated above the stave, with no ledger line and cross-head notes. Quite how practical it would be to have a rule that achieved this for drum cues in all transposing and non-transposing instruments I'm not sure.
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Michael Crump, 03 Sep 10:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Adrian Drover, 04 Sep 07:08AM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Philip Sparke, 04 Sep 07:36AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Philip R, 04 Sep 11:47AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Peter Jacobs, 04 Sep 02:48PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Cues and transposing instruments - Laurence Payne, 04 Sep 03:05PM