Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 25 Jun 06:36PM Hide picture Page layout in Sibelius is only marginal at best. There are many problems but let's start with this one: There are times, particularly at the end of a part where it would be helpful for the righthand margin of the last bar to be moved to the left while leaving the righthand margins of other systems as they are. It can't be done with 7.5. You can do it with the lefthand margin so why not the righthand margin? The option to move the ANY margin of ANY single system needs to be addressed. PLEASE! Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Roy Moore - 25 Jun 06:47PM (edited 25 Jun 07:04PM) Hide picture If you click just outside the right of the staff, close to the barline, a handle (blue square box) appears which allows you to drag the barline to the left. This has been a feature for as long as I can remember. What other problems do you find with layout/margins? Roy Moore London UK (2015) Sib 7.5.1,Windows 7 SP 1 pro x64 8gb ram,2x quad core 2.5ghz , 512gb SSD Audiophile 2496 Laptop Win 8.1 - 32gb ram 512 ssd 750 hd EW Goliath, EWQLSO platinum, Hollywood Strings Gold, QL Solo Violin, Note Performer Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Mike Lyons - 25 Jun 07:42PM Hide picture This has ALWAYS been available. On my system the handle is purple. Go figure. If you have trouble seeing this handle, turn on view->handles in the view tab of the ribbon (under invisibles). I believe this is in the manual - Page 175 in my version! -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 25 Jun 07:51PM Hide picture I didn't make myself clear. Yes, you can move the righthand margins ALMOST any time to the right, EXCEPT THE LAST BAR. The only work-around I know is to add a bar push it off to another page and not print the last page. Seems a lot of steps for something that could be fixed to work as the other bars do. Or am I missing something? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 25 Jun 07:58PM Hide picture Dizz, it has always been possible to move the right-hand margin of the last bar. Previous posts on this thread explain how to do it. -- Sibelius 8/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.3, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robert Enns - 25 Jun 08:09PM Hide picture I just tried with 7.5 to move the last bar left on both a score and its part. No problem using the handle as described above. -- Rob Win 7 64 bit, 3.1 GHz, 8 Gigs RAM Sibelius 7.5, Sibelius Sounds 7.1.2, Photoscore Ult., GPO4 Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 25 Jun 08:15PM Hide picture Sorry, I find nothing in this thread or the manual. Phone support was in able to help. They couldn't do it either. Maybe I have a corrupt file? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 25 Jun 08:33PM Hide picture Dizz, please attach the Sibelius .sib score file that you are having difficulty with, so that we can see if there is a problem. -- Sibelius 8/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.3, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Mike Lyons - 25 Jun 10:09PM Hide picture If you post the file here, someone can help you further. -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 26 Jun 02:27PM Hide picture Thanks for offer but project done and out the door. Moving on. BUT I do have other questions. 1) In Finale I can select a bar, a line, a system, etc. and go to the Utilities dropdown menu, select Music Spacing. It offers me some options and Finale spaces notes, measures, etc. for me. I can then tweak the spacing for myself. I find nothing in Sibelius that does this for me. Sometimes I've found notes bunched to the left side of a bar. There are only two ways I know of to fix this: 1) delete and re-enter, 2) use the Inspector to tediously move each individual note or rest. I find nothing in the Reference Guide. Can anyone help, please? 2) Layout in Sibelius is problematic for me. I know all about the numbers aspect, but I'd rather use the curser so I can see and evaluate what I'm doing. While moving lines, etc., Sibelius will explode or implode the systems and lines with the curser. Not good. Am I doing something wrong? Surely there's a better way. Once again I find nothing helpful in the Reference manual or online or, for that matter, tech support has been unable to offer a solution. Can anyone help, please? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Philip Sparke - 26 Jun 02:40PM Hide picture Sibelius's default note spacing is pretty good and very flexible. You shouldn't have to manually move notes around except in exceptional circumstances. But as Mike says, you need to post the problematic file here so we can advise. -- Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD www.philipsparke.com Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 26 Jun 02:59PM Hide picture > 1) In Finale I can select a bar, a line, a system, etc. and go to the Utilities dropdown menu, select Music Spacing. > It offers me some options and Finale spaces notes, measures, etc. for me. I can then tweak the spacing for myself. > I find nothing in Sibelius that does this for me. Start with selecting the bar, or system, or whole score, and do "Reset Note Spacing", and possibly "Reset Position". If that does not fix it, please attach a score which demonstrates this issue so that we can see what is wrong. > Sometimes I've found notes bunched to the left side of a bar. There are only two ways I know of to fix this: > 1) delete and re-enter, > 2) use the Inspector to tediously move each individual note or rest. > I find nothing in the Reference Guide. Can anyone help, please? You should never have to use either of those techniques. If "Reset Note Spacing" does not fix the issue, then the bar might be "irregular" (too long for the current time signature), as the result of an earlier mistake. In the case of an irregular bar, it needs to be fixed, rather than fiddling with note positions. > 2) Layout in Sibelius is problematic for me. I know all about the numbers aspect, > but I'd rather use the curser so I can see and evaluate what I'm doing. > While moving lines, etc., Sibelius will explode or implode the systems and lines with the curser. > Not good. Am I doing something wrong? I've really no idea what it is that you are describing here. Please attach a score which demonstrates the issue, and describe to us how to provoke it. As a general principle, there are always better ways of getting good results from Sibelius than dragging with the mouse. > Surely there's a better way. Once again I find nothing helpful in the Reference manual or online or, > for that matter, tech support has been unable to offer a solution. Can anyone help, please? We can only help if we understand what the issue is, and what you are trying to achieve: so always attach the score that is showing the problem. The Reference Manual is a reference, not a tutorial. There are online tutorials in every Sibelius installation, which every new Sibelius user should work through. There are also Sibelius tutorial books in the third-party market, such as: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Music-Notation-Essentials-Learning/dp/1133788823 -- Sibelius 8/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.3, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 30 Jun 04:56PM Hide picture Is there a way to move a bar line, note, a rest within a measure WITHOUT moving anything else on the system? I don't mean with the Inspector or in Appearance>Reset Note Spacing or Group Spacing. I also don't mean with Magic Layout. Thank you in advance for any suggestions. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 30 Jun 05:27PM Hide picture > Is there a way to move a bar line, note, a rest within a measure WITHOUT moving anything else on the system? To answer this, we would need to understand the reason behind any need to move such objects. So, please attach the score with the problems, and tell us where each problem is. We can then advise how to clear that particular problem up, and the solution might well not involve moving individual items at all. Sibelius gets so much spacing correct by default, that it is highly unusual to need to do a lot of tweaking at the level of individual items. If you are in a situation where you think you need to do this, then either (a) there might be better and more elegant ways of fixing the issue (e.g. engraving rules, or note spacing rules), or (b) there is some underlying problem that needs to be identified and fixed (e.g. staff too crowded). -- Sibelius 8/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.3, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 24 Sep 08:24PM Hide picture I tried selecting each bar separately and clicking delete. It did not work. I finally selected the section, deleted it and re-entered the measures. The multi-rest then worked. On tot he next problem. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 05 Aug 05:09PM Hide picture All of a sudden windows such as the transpose window when selected are coming up full screen. How to I minimize back to normal? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Adding Bars to beginning of existing score Posted by Dizz - 05 Aug 05:14PM Hide picture Is there a easier way of adding bars to the beginning of a score than doing it as a pick up bar and then adding the necessary bars OR adding the bars after the first bar and cutting and pasting first bar to the end of the added bars? Finale has an easy way of adding bars before or after a selected bar. I'm looking for the same in Sibelius. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.4.2 Screwed Up Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 05:30PM (edited 17 Jan 06:01PM) Hide picture Can someone please explain why page 5 is screwed up layout-wise in the Acoustic Bass part when using dynamic parts? How do you fix it? Selecting handles and clicking on handle to make it purple then resetting the position does not work. Attachment Octopus's Garden.sib (130K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.4.2 Screwed Up Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 06:10PM Hide picture > Can someone please explain why page 5 is screwed up layout-wise in the Acoustic Bass part when using dynamic parts? I cannot see anything wrong. What exactly is "screwed up layout-wise" on page 5 of the Acoustic Bass dynamic part? -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.4.2 Screwed Up Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 06:20PM Hide picture Sorry, I sent the file after I messed around and fixed it. I'm enclosing the score. If you open the Dynamic Part for the bass and look at pg 5 you'll see at the bottom that the next to the last line is clear over on the left. I opened Handles and selected the handle so it was purple then Appearance>Reset>Position but it wouldn't work? Actually, none of the handles worked when I tried this fix. This happens too often for me. Most of the time I can fix it but I shouodn't have to. I'm doing something wrong when I set up a score or there's a bug. Probably the former not the later. In any event, it's frustrating. Would like to settle this issue once and for all. Attachment I've Gotta Do What I Gotta Do.sib (227K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 8.4.2 Screwed Up Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 06:38PM Hide picture > I opened Handles and selected the handle so it was purple then Appearance>Reset>Position but it wouldn't work? I don't have any problems using this fix on various dynamic parts in this score, though in many cases the relevant handle is partially obscured under over-spilled notes and rests, and you have to be quite careful to ensure that the handle is selected. > Would like to settle this issue once and for all. What was the origin of this score? It's not unknown for this problem to happen with scores that are imported from other notation products. Alternatively, maybe you are using a template or manuscript paper to start from, and the issue is already present in that template or manuscript paper. I don't know a way of creating this problem. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 10 Aug 10:41AM Hide picture Did not work. Moved project to Finale and completed. Thanks anyway. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 22 Dec 07:21PM Hide picture Can someone tell me why, no matter what I do, pages. 5 & 10 of this score won't match the other pages? Attachment Hurry Up! I'm Late.sib (194K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Dec 07:47PM Hide picture > Can someone tell me why, no matter what I do, pages. 5 & 10 of this score won't match the other pages? If you wish all pages to justify to the lower margin, then reduce the setting in: Appearance -> Engraving Rules -> Staves -> Justification to be somewhat less than 65%, rather than 65% -- Sibelius 8.7.2/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.8.2, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop, and Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 27 Jun 04:23PM Hide picture I am enclosing a file for you to see if you can get that little blue box to show up. The template from which this file came works fine. There must be something somewhere turned on/off about which I'm unaware. This has happened multiple times to other files. Thanks for the look. Attachment I Could Write a Book MR.sib (116K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Jun 05:22PM Hide picture > I am enclosing a file for you to see if you can get that little blue box to show up. I do not have any difficulty finding the handle at the end of the final bar of the score (and I've shortened that system by dragging the handle inwards to prove it). The handle is purple when selected rather than blue. If you have difficulty locating handles, then turn on View -> Invisibles -> Handles. -- Sibelius 8/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.3, Dolet 6.4 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Attachment I Could Write a Book MR fixed.sib (115K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 26 Jun 03:51PM Hide picture Thank you for the help. I have been through the tutorials and have talked to many who use Sibelius. I'm a finale user from way back in the early 90's when it first appeared. I've been using Sibelius for less than a year. I've been in this biz for more than forty years. Frankly, I think both Finale and Sibelius are in their infant stages of development. They both have a long way to go to be truly efficient. In union negotiations in L.A. I was pitted against the computer several times in the late 80's to see what was better, the computer or the person. I always won. (I'm the person, by the way.) Musicians, orchestrators and copyists came kicking and screaming to the computer. Please keep evolving and trying to make it better by getting the input of all who have experience in the biz. I'm afraid I'll be dead before music notation programs are really perfected. Here endth the diatribe. Sgt Dizz Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Mike Lyons - 27 Jun 09:37AM Hide picture The problem I have always had with Finale is that it allows - even encourages - you to enter music that is 'grammatically' incorrect. Sibelius' great strength is that it insists that you write your music correctly - at least in terms of number of beats matching the TS and so on. If you are having layout issues like those you describe, then I suspect that you are 'having a running battle with the machine' in some way, rather than allowing it to get on with its job and then tweaking the result. -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Philip Sparke - 27 Jun 01:59PM Hide picture If you just enter notes with any kind of keyboard, Sibelius will space them beautifully without the need for any manual adjustment - except for the last two systems and a few exceptional cases. It's one of the programme's great strengths. I suspect you may be trying to solve it using 'Finale' methods? Which is what you are used to, of course. I attach a score I am working on at the moment and I have done NO horizontal adjustment at all, just to show you that it can deal with some fairly complex situations. Are you importing via MIDI or something like that? Even so, resetting to default spacing is probably all you need to do. -- Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD www.philipsparke.com Attachment Reflections on an Old Japanese Folk Song CB.sib (378K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 06:47PM Hide picture Only one handle will go to purple and that's the handle immediately to the left of the bass clef. A purple vertical line runs through it when it is selected. This score is from a template that I made. I shall throw it away and make another in hopes this solves the problem. It occurs in other parts and other scores I'm currently working on but all the others fix just as they're supposed to. This is the only one that will not work for me. I have to jury rig the layout to set up the part. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 06:50PM Hide picture > Only one handle will go to purple and that's the handle immediately to the left of the bass clef. That is the wrong handle. You need to select the handle which is to the right of the end of the bar. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 06:53PM Hide picture Yes, I would select it if it were available but it is NOT there. I've blown the part up to seven zillion percent and it ain't there. It's no where on the page. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 06:56PM Hide picture It's there, on every part, exactly one space after the final barline. In most cases, it is buried under over-spilled notes. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 07:08PM Hide picture Yes, I know what Im looking for. It's there on other parts. I see it easily. It is not on this bass part. I've got a 27" display and have blown the part up until I see one symbol at a time and have scanned and looked everywhere. It ain't there. Nowhere to be seen. Weird ugh? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 07:13PM Hide picture What part, exactly, are you looking at, and at what bar number? -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 07:15PM Hide picture I'm looking at the bass part bar 136. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Dizz - 17 Jan 07:36PM Hide picture I moved the righthand margin on the last page to the left when editing the score to make the length of the bars more consistent with previous pages. This caused the problem with bar 136 in ALL the parts i just discovered. And I'm telling' ya I could not find that handle. I've solved this issue before. I know what I'm looking for. BUT... when I moved the margin on the last page of the score back to the right by resetting the position using the method Appearance>Reset>Position, the problem with ALL the parts disappears. Problem solved. Never seen that before. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Margins/Layout Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Jan 08:07PM Hide picture OK, that works. Maybe it is something to do with the Full Score having a wider page than the Dynamic Parts. -- Sibelius 8.4/7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 8.0.4, Dolet 6.6 for Sibelius, Windows 10 64-bit 16GB. Desktop no-name, Microsoft Surface Book. Back to top | All threads