Sibelius - the leading music composition and notation software

I have downloaded and started using it this morning. It has certainly got some improved balancing to the previous version.

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1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by TylerE - 21 May 05:48PM

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It's the bee's knees. It continues to do what it already does well, and in every release the weak spots get better and better.

Here is a sample to whet the appetite... this is straight out of Sib with no editing or mastering...

https://soundcloud.com/tylere-1/dvorak-symphony-no-9-np-15-beta

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Ben Jackson - 21 May 08:20PM

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I downloaded the demo, but absolutely hated it! Whilst the expression was great the actual instrument sounds were not realistic at all. Please have a look at my new thread - i need help uninstalling it

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=677064&groupid=3

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Sibelius 7.1.3, Mac Book Pro, 4.00 GB Ram, 64 Bit

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Laurence Payne - 21 May 08:38PM

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I think it produces attractive results on some smaller ensembles, but TylerE's example doesn't show it at its best. I've yet to find a general-purpose sample set that didn't reduce an orchestral wind section to a Casio keyboard.

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 May 11:04AM (edited 22 May 11:15AM)

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If after downloading (and trying 1.5) I want to go back to the previous version, am I able to do this without uninstalling completely?

[This may be a question for Arne Wallander]

Edit: I notice TylerE (on SoundCloud)is a beta demo.

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http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Steve Rampley - 22 May 12:06PM

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My initial reaction was unfavorable: the clarity and detail of the previous version seems to have been sacrificed for reverb flexibility. I would also like a path back to the previous version, but I will play with this one some more to see if I am missing something. At the minimum, it seems to require that all instrument reverb and volume settings be readjusted. This can obviously be time consuming.

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Stephen Rampley
OS X 10.9.2, Sib 7.5.1 , NotePerformer, Kontakt 5, Logic Pro X,
MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz i7, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, 250 GB SSD

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Laurence Payne - 22 May 12:28PM

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Reverb does seem to be a large part of NP's appeal, and certainly it has changed in the latest version.

I note that I no longer have to wait while Sibelius loads NP (should it be the default Playback Configuration) on startup. This is pleasant.

If an over-the-top reinstallation of the earlier version doesn't work, Tony, a full removal is not onerous.

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 May 12:47PM

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But would I have to save my present NP installation (somehow) if I were to install 1.5 - try it - prefer what I`ve got at present (the earlier ver), and then uninstall 1.5?

Does this make sense? :)

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http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 May 12:52PM

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You can revert to an earlier version only if you have preserved the installer for that earlier version.

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Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 May 01:17PM

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Cheers, thank you.
I`ve just listened to NP site displaying a 1.5 `Raiders of the Lost Ark`. Somehow it sounds different (woolly and clipped) than my own previous version. But then I haven`t got my previous version playing Raiders, which would obviously help to compare.
I might save the new 1.5 to a different location (if I can).

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http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Steve Rampley - 22 May 09:23PM

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I reverted to 1.4.2c, which is a painless operation (never delete your old downloads!) Will wait for the next version of 1.5 before trying it again. Maybe it's just me, but the strings sound less real in 1.5 and the response to dynamic markings seems uneven. I'm confident that Wallander will continue to improve the product, though.

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Stephen Rampley
OS X 10.9.2, Sib 7.5.1 , NotePerformer, Kontakt 5, Logic Pro X,
MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz i7, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, 250 GB SSD

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Arne @ NotePerformer - 24 May 07:51AM

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It's possible to revert to most earlier versions by request, but usually the solution lies elsewhere. I noticed you found a solution to the reverb setting in your other thread, great!

If you're having problems with uneven dynamics, make sure you've actually read through the support page:

http://www.noteperformer.com/?mode=support

I know it may be a drag to read :) but it's just a 5 minute read and it really covers some things that are essential to using NotePerformer, or any playback device in Sibelius for that matter in my humble opinion because most of the things covered are general things that affect playback no matter if you use NotePerformer, the built-in sounds, VSL etc. There are a number of things that causes uneven dynamics in Sibelius such as Espressivo, and from my experience deactivating them is almost always the solution for NotePerformer users. Either that or taking away hidden MIDI messages from the score, or making sure dynamics are written in the right voice.

The most major difference between 1.3.3 vs 1.4.2 vs 1.5.0 are changes in the reverb and processing, not the actual source sounds. And as far as sound updates go between 1.4.2 -> 1.5.0, it's mainly some obviously problematic things, such as fixing some of the flute attacks that were to slow and didn't sound for short notes. Just so you know, there should be no expected difference in dynamic marking treatment with strings from 1.4.2 to 1.5.0, in case you're getting that!

I hope that helps. :)

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Arne Wallander
www.NotePerformer.com

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Euphonius - 24 May 10:47AM

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I'm reticent to criticise Noteperformer because overall it's fantastic compared with the stock sounds that come with Sibelius, but I've got to say that I reverted to 1.4.2 very quickly after trying 1.5. The sound of many of my existing pieces took a real dive and no matter what tweaking I undertook, I couldn't get the quality anywhere near 1.4.2.
Mainly strings - solo violin actually sounds ever so slightly out of tune and that's really off-putting. The vibrato (all strengths) on all the strings seems to be much heavier and lacking finesse.
I didn't get to try all the instruments, but now, in a piece I'm writing for Euphonium and Brass Band, the Euphonium sound has changed for the worse - again heavy and lacking delicacy - and it's definitely not just a reverb issue.
I suppose it could be me, but after all the work I've put in, it's too much to go through them all again trying to salvage the original quality, and the sound of 1.5 doesn't help me with the creation of new music.
I've no doubt that there are some major improvements in 1.5 and I hope that they continue into future updates, but not at the expense of what was right (in my opinion and to my ears) about 1.4.2

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Steve Rampley - 24 May 04:40PM

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Don't get me wrong; I love the product. I think it is a step forward in the inevitable marriage of notation software and DAWs. I am not a professional musician and my ears are getting old. I do read the release notes and I am positively obsessive about trying to get the best sound that I can out of my music software. I listen through an Apogee DAC and Beyerdynamic DT770 phones. I was thrilled with the previous release of NotePerformer. Listen to a sustained violin section note at C6 or higher with just a hint of reverberation and you will hear a clarity and delicacy that I suspect can only be matched with DAW software that I cannot begin to afford. Try the same with 1.5.0 and you will hear something not quite so spectacular. I will try again, though. I'll dial down the reverb to "small room" and play with the reverb sliders as suggested in another thread. Here is a piece for chamber orchestra that was produced with 1.4.2c:

https://soundcloud.com/rampley/sonatina-in-eb-major-for-chamber-orchestra-draft

I tried tweaking this piece in 1.5.0 and when I get what I think is the best sounding version I'll post a link to it. Hopefully it will sound the same or better. Again, I'm really a fan of NotePerformer and think it opens up a path to the future.

Note: my complaint about dynamics might simply be an issue with a non-tweaked playing of a piece created and massively tweaked in 1.4.2c.
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Stephen Rampley
OS X 10.9.2, Sib 7.5.1 , NotePerformer, Kontakt 5, Logic Pro X,
MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz i7, 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, 250 GB SSD

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5
Posted by Frank Wilhoit - 27 May 01:44PM

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Arne,

Kudos for 1.5, which combines the best of 1.3 and 1.4 to a great degree. I do find that I must rejuggle balances and reverb in my scores, but the result is worth the effort.

Two points, if I may.

1) PLEASE do not let anyone shame you out of the detuning. It is the only way to avoid the organ effect and it is the essential differentiator of your product from all others. Before I discovered NotePerformer, I realized that slight detuning (or, even better, pitch randomization) would be the only way to do this, but I could not figure out how to do it. The 1.4 brass are TOO WELL in tune, which brought back the organ effect, particularly noticeable on loud sustained chords. It is still there in 1.5. There must be a middle ground.

2) The soloist strings are mostly excellent. I love the bow scratch, especially on multiple stops. But the vibrato is excessive. It is really appropriate only for one style of playing, which was the norm during the middle of the 20th century, but which is no longer in fashion today. I hope it may be easy to back it off a little by some combination of (A) slowing the LFO and (B) delaying the onset of vibrato so that it does not affect notes shorter than, say, 250 milliseconds. Rapid legato passages still have a bit of an FM sound and I think this is due to the vibrato having a quick onset.

2a) There MUST be some way to get the good features of the soloist strings into the ensemble patches...? I simply cannot use the 1.4 ensemble strings; the clash with my personal style of composition is insurmountable.

2b) Also very useful (and, I would hope, easy) would be open-string samples, just for the open-string pitches of course. Again, historical practice has varied here, between extremes of use-open-strings-whenever-possible and avoid-open-strings-whenever-possible. I lean toward the former and (in my view) it fits well with your paradigm of small string sections.

Thanks,
FW
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Tony Wakefield, 21 May 10:01AM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Mike Lyons, 21 May 11:21AM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - TylerE, 21 May 05:48PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Ben Jackson, 21 May 08:20PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Laurence Payne, 21 May 08:38PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Tony Wakefield, 22 May 11:04AM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Steve Rampley, 22 May 12:06PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Laurence Payne, 22 May 12:28PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Tony Wakefield, 22 May 12:47PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Robin Walker, 22 May 12:52PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Tony Wakefield, 22 May 01:17PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Steve Rampley, 22 May 09:23PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Arne @ NotePerformer, 24 May 07:51AM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Euphonius, 24 May 10:47AM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Steve Rampley, 24 May 04:40PM

Re: Sib. 6.x: NotePerformer 1.5 - Frank Wilhoit, 27 May 01:44PM