Back in November, there was an extended discussion of sound cards, launched by Chris Crawley, who was asking about a replacement for the M-Audio 192. I am in the same position. Two products were mentioned in that discussion - Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (a USB card) and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100, a digital-audio converter.
Laurence Payne suggested using a sound card with a dedicated ASIO driver, but he didn't mention any particular models or brands.
This third option sounds most promising to me, so if someone can recommend a model or brand, I'd certainly be grateful. But I'd appreciate information about any device or system that would be as good as or better than the M-Audio 192. Thanks very much.
The Focusrite could be considered a successor to the M-Audio cards.
The Cambridge Audio box is aimed at the hi-fi market, to perform (as so often in the hi-fi world) a probably unnecessary function. It does seem to offer an ASIO driver, but I wouldn't consider it until you get first-hand confirmation that it works well with Sibelius. And isn't it output-only? Sibelius playback may be all you want now, but your computer-music horizons may expand.
"The Cambridge Audio box is aimed at the hi-fi market..."
Yes, so I understand.
"... to perform (as so often in the hi-fi world) a probably unnecessary function."
I don't know what this is supposed to mean. It's a DAC.
"It does seem to offer an ASIO driver..."
Yes, it does.
"... but I wouldn't consider it until you get first-hand confirmation that it works well with Sibelius."
It works excellently with Sibelius.
"And isn't it output-only?"
Yes.
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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
"But I'd appreciate information about any device or system that would be as good as or better than the M-Audio 192."
The DACMagic 100 is at least as good as the M-Audio 192.
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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
Interesting that you have both a 192 and a DacMagic, Chris. Are you using them as alternative "soundcards", or taking the 192 digital out into the DAC?
Your Vista-64 must one of very few in captivity :-)
I have been very happy with my Focusrite. It's a great card. It has 6 ins and 6 outs (hence the name). I don't think Focusrite are making this card anymore, but the replacements should be equally as good. Sadly, my Edirol card has died, but only after many long and hard years of constant use.
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1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.
My computer arrangements are a bit of a mess at the moment. The M-Audio 192 is still installed but not used. I bought the DacMagic for use with the new computer I have never got round to buying, but installed it on the present computer - and that's what I use.
The Vista Home Basic 64-bit machine has been totally reliable so far and I've had none of the problems that made Vista so reviled amongst its users. The big limitation with it is the motherboard, which cannot see more than 3GB of RAM (I installed 4GB before I knew.) So it won't run Sibelius 7 sounds nor NotePerformer.
As I'm doing a PhD in composition the time never seems right to make the switch-over to a new computer. There's always a project which I don't want to interrupt.
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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
Essentially, if you've got proper ASIO drivers which are designed for whichever flavour of Windows you're using, then you should be fine. Other than that, Sibelius is not fussy. The most important thing for stability and you being able to get on with your work is that driver - it's got to be good and stable otherwise it'll bring Sibelius down with it.
I recommend choosing a well known brand because one can usually be assured that they'll continue to support their products with driver and firmware updates in the future.
Sibelius' samples are 44.1k 16bit, so there's no advantage to be had in a DAC that can operate at higher clock speeds.
>I recommend choosing a well known brand because one can usually be assured that they'll continue to support their products with driver and firmware updates in the future.
"Sibelius' samples are 44.1k 16bit, so there's no advantage to be had in a DAC that can operate at higher clock speeds."
Correct, of course.
But some of us (I can't believe I'm the only one) use a high quality audio set-up with monitor-standard speakers with our computer and play stuff other than Sibelius through it.
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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
"...you've had a chance to compare the M-audio card with the Dac. Any appreciable difference in quality?"
Difficult to say. It's certainly no worse. I'm trying to avoid saying that of course it's better because I spent some money on it. If you're not careful any tweak you make convinces you it's wonderful.
I have some problems with the amplifier (an old NAD 304), which seems to have some poor internal connections. When one channel is not fading out or distorted the whole thing sounds very good.
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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
Yes, those old NAD amplifiers were very well regarded.
I also find it hard to convince myself there's any audible advantage in high sample rates, except maybe when performing a pitch shift or similar. Anyone want a Russ Andrews gift token? :-)
> I also find it hard to convince myself there's any audible advantage in high sample rates, except maybe when performing a pitch shift or similar.
There are some solid advantages in high sample rates and 24 bits for *digitizing* audio.
If you have to process the analog signal, e.g. compressing it to get rid of short duration large amplitude transients, distort the signal converting it from analog to digital, the damage is usually non-repairable. 24 bits gives more headroom for transients. For live recording, a theoretical "16 bits" probably really means only 10 or 12, and dance-music producers called 8-bit resolution (used intentionally) "grunge" for a good reason!
Many instruments (most obviously, percussion) produce transient sounds with frequencies above 22-24 kHz. If you ignore that fact, digitizing at 44.1k or 48k will "reflect" those transients into the audio frequency range. Trying to make an analog filter that kills everything above 22 KHz but doesn't distort anything below 20 KHz is next to impossible, at a sensible price.
Just digitizing everything up to 44/48 KHz (or even to 96 KHz) is technically simpler and cheaper. If you want to reduce the sample rate and/or but depth later, you don't have to do it in real time, and that has the advantage that you can "look ahead" to decide what to do, which is impossible if you were trying to filter the analog audio signal when you first recorded it.
If you want to do other digital signal processing (equalization, compression, etc), a higher sample rate means you can "lose" most of the digital noise in the inaudible high frequencies, and then throw it all away at the end when you downsample.
@Chris: yes, that's me - in addition to Sibelius I use Pro Tools (10 and 11), Reaper, Sony Vegas, occasionally Avid Media Composer (their video editor), on two different systems.
For just Sibelius anything with decent ASIO drivers will work fine, but if you want to go beyond Sibelius it may make sense to plan ahead, and e.g. have a controller with motorized touch-sensitive fader knobs, multiple ins and outs, the ability to hook up more than two speakers (e.g. if you want to hear music in surround), and so on.
Doesn't have to be expensive at all, latest sound card I got (for my Pro Tools computer) is a Behringer FCA 1616, with 16 inputs and outputs and 8 physical outputs, which can be had for $250 if you shop around.
And as for motorized controllers, I got an Icon Qcon Pro which is really nice (brushed aluminium), fully compatible with Pro Tools, and expendable too with two more satellite fader units. At around $750 it is a fraction of the Avid hardware.
Or you might even look to an older model on eBay although that can be tricky with lack of support (drivers), and if it somehow it doesn't work with all your programs you can't return it etc.
