'Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss '

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Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - pacome , 12 May 06:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - TylerE, 13 May 01:33AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 13 May 06:14AM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 13 May 08:35AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 13 May 09:23AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - James, 13 May 07:25PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 14 May 05:35AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 09:24AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Chris Crawley, 14 May 12:39PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 01:01PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 14 May 01:36PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 02:43PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Philip Sparke, 15 May 07:45AM

Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by pacome - 12 May 06:07PM

hello

i do not remember how to input trombone glissando

thanks
--
Mac pro book OS 10.8.2 2.6 Ghz intel duo 8 Go Ram
sounds sibelius 7.1.3 program sibelius 7.1.3 libray S7S
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by TylerE - 13 May 01:33AM
As a gliss. It's under lines. No special notation. I dunno if the default sound set actually has samples for it thought so it may not play back if using Sibelius Sounds.

NotePerformer DOES support them, and quite well at that, see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW51mLsn2pY
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Adrian Drover - 13 May 06:14AM (edited 13 May 06:17AM)
And even if you can get a decent playback from Sib, please make sure that the glissando is possible in real life. Attached chart shows the only glissandi that are possible between 7th & 1st position on Bb trombone. Others are possible on Bb/F trombone, tho' only between 6 positions. Understand your instrument before you write! Even Bartók screwed up when thinking that the Boston Symphony Orch used the European bass trombone in F (Concerto for Orchestra).
Attachment bone gliss.sib (96K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Laurence Payne - 13 May 08:35AM
I suppose it's valid to write "impossible" glisses if Sibelius playback will be the only performance. Just as a computer musician is not obliged to write drum tracks playable by a human with just two hands and two feet. But if live players will be involved...

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FAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/sibelius.html
If you want help with a score, attach the sib file!
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Adrian Drover - 13 May 09:23AM
Posted by Laurence Payne - 13 May 08:35
I suppose it's valid to write "impossible" glisses if Sibelius playback will be the only performance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good grief! Cyberbones already? Stop the world, I wanna get off.
I write my drum parts for one-handed, footless players. Gives them a chance to concentrate on time and play something pretty.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by James - 13 May 07:25PM
I remember carefully working out all the slide positions for a bass trombone part I wrote. At the session, the trombonist was struggling and I asked him why. He said he only had a tenor trombone and figured he'd be able to play the bass trombone part on it. He had definitely been hired to play bass trombone but he had other ideas. So no matter how careful you are, circumstances can still mess you up.

--
Mac OS 10.9 Mavericks
Sibelius 6.2
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Adrian Drover - 14 May 05:35AM
Do you know that there are still some people out there who think the bass trombone is pitched in G, and look at you in disbelief when you tell them that the old British instrument is now practically extinct? I once copied a score for recording session, in which the bass trombone part made no sense. On phoning the arranger, said he'd been informed it had to be transposed a 4th up.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 May 09:24AM
Well, that's what it said in the book!

Then there's the habit among young composers of looking in "the book" for every bizarre alternative technique you can force out of an instrument, and using them ALL in each piece.

On a more useful note, this popped up in the Facebook Orchestration group recently. Useful demonstrations of what each instrument can do. But look at the trombone section. An obsession against using "alternative" positions extends to demonstrating slide vibrato on middle F in 1st position! And he isn't working against the spring - just vibbing down but not up! I wonder if there are similar oddities in the other instruments, which I wouldn't have noticed?

http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/composition/isfee/
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Chris Crawley - 14 May 12:39PM
"... there's the habit among young composers of looking in "the book" for every bizarre alternative technique you can force out of an instrument..."

They're called "advanced techniques" where I am. Not sure what is "advanced" about them, but if you want weird you can certainly get it out of nearly any instrument.

I don't know much about alternative slide positions for trombones, except that they exist and, I would have thought, could be very useful to avoid unwieldy movements of the slide.

I know plenty about alternative fingerings for horn and they are very useful.

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Chris Crawley (composer and horn-player) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also have Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 May 01:01PM (edited 14 May 01:02PM)
On a valved instrument, alternative fingerings are largely (but not exclusively) about intonation and dexterity.

On trombone, it's predominantly about legato. If the slide comes in as the note goes up, there's danger of a smear. We practice very hard to avoid it, but... :-)

If the slide can move against the pitch direction, a different sort of legato altogether is possible.

The Tuba Mirum demonstration at:
http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/composition/isfee/
illustrates this perfectly. It also illustrates the more prosaic point that, other things being equal, if you have a choice between 3,1,3 (positions) and 3,4,3 - why on earth choose the longer path?
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Adrian Drover - 14 May 01:36PM
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 May 09:24
Well, that's what it said in the book!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Do you know, I actually have a big band arranging book (dated 1956) by Reg Owen (arranger for Ted Heath) who states that the bass trombone is pitched in G. Guess the Bb/F instrument took a long time to catch on in the UK.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 May 02:43PM
Still the days of post-war "make do and mend" I suppose, where players used whatever was available ex brass band or services band. Or maybe, whatever his arranging skills, he wasn't that interested in the technicalities of the bass trombone and just copied it from an earlier book.

LP or HP in those days, I wonder? Brass bands stuck with HP for a long time. What did the wartime services bands use? B & H stopped making high pitch band instruments in the mid 60s - which was about when I took a school visit to the Edgware factory. The questions I SHOULD have asked... :-)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss
Posted by Philip Sparke - 15 May 07:45AM
> Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 May 09:24
> Well, that's what it said in the book!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Do you know, I actually have a big band arranging book (dated 1956) by Reg Owen (arranger for Ted Heath) who states that the bass trombone is pitched in G. Guess the Bb/F instrument took a long time to catch on in the UK.

I played with the GUS Brass Band in 1978, and they were still using a G bass then. (Though not for much longer...)


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Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - pacome , 12 May 06:07PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - TylerE, 13 May 01:33AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 13 May 06:14AM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 13 May 08:35AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 13 May 09:23AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - James, 13 May 07:25PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 14 May 05:35AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 09:24AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Chris Crawley, 14 May 12:39PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 01:01PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Adrian Drover, 14 May 01:36PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Laurence Payne, 14 May 02:43PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: trombone gliss - Philip Sparke, 15 May 07:45AM