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Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores - Ed Hirschman, 18 Apr 12:52AM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Pearl, 18 Apr 02:17AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Pearl, 18 Apr 02:40PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - David, 18 Apr 03:39PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 18 Apr 05:18PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 18 Apr 05:23PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - jay vilnai, 19 Apr 02:51AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 19 Apr 03:14AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Stephen Wrigley, 19 Apr 09:03AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Krentzman, 19 Apr 12:44PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 19 Apr 01:54PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Laurence Payne, 19 Apr 02:06PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ian Schofield, 19 Apr 05:24PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ian Schofield, 19 Apr 05:46PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 19 Apr 06:50PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Nicholas Freestone, 21 Apr 10:23PM
                                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - James, 22 Apr 12:49AM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Chris Crawley, 22 Apr 07:46AM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 22 Apr 08:11AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 25 Apr 08:15PM

Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ed Hirschman - 18 Apr 12:52AM
Hi,

I am writing a blog posting about this topic and was hoping to hear of some "infamous" examples of pieces you have played (orchestral parts come to mind) where a mistake in the part is very well known and has been in there for decades or longer, never corrected.

Thanks,

Ed

--
Ed Hirschman
www.artofsoundmusic.com
Sib 7.5, Gateway DX4840-15 (i5), 8G RAM, Win 7

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 18 Apr 02:17AM
Ed,

This won't help your project, but I had to pass this along: someone I know runs a small, but excellent music publishing house. He once told me that there was a term in the industry for an edition that had no errors, or needed no errata sheet: an accident!

Seriously, if I think of any examples I'll pass them along.

--
Ron Pearl
7.1.2
iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
http://www.ronaldmpearl.com/

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 18 Apr 02:40PM
Related: in many older editions of the Well Tempered Clavier by JSB, there is an extra measure that was added to the Prelude in C, book 1. I hvae edition by Faure, and the measure is marked with an asterisk - the text states (loose translation) "this measure is consecrated by tradition, but is not found in the original".

I've heard it both ways...

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Ron Pearl
7.1.2
iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by David - 18 Apr 03:39PM
I had a Brahms score in college with Bruckner's picture on it. :)

Barber of Seville overture, First fiddles: At the Allegro (around measure 25-27) There are 3 famous pickup notes. The next phrase should have 2 pickup notes, and it has 3. I'm not a musicologist, so I consulted the greatest musicologist in history= Bugs Bunny. The Rabbit of Seville does two notes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Ko7NeMhhI
--
7.5.1, Windows 7

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Rob Tuley - 18 Apr 05:18PM
> Related: in many older editions of the Well Tempered Clavier by JSB, there is an extra measure that was added to the Prelude in C, book 1.

We know where it came from, (see http://www.henle.de/blog/en/2012/04/16/on-the-lookout-for-the-lost-measure-bach%E2%80%99s-c-major-prelude-from-the-well-tempered-clavier-i/) but not why. Unfortunately, Czerny published his edition based on the "wrong" manuscript, and Gounod then added his "Ave Maria" to Czerny's version.

Unsurprisingly, there are still people posting on the web that the correct version has a bar missing.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Rob Tuley - 18 Apr 05:23PM
There are plenty of examples in keyboard music. I have a Russian edition of Scriabin printed with some incorrect clefs! Even the ABRSM Tovey edition of the Beethoven sonatas has a few accidentals missing - I'm quite sure Beethoven never meant to write the chord C-sharp E A C-natural played with one hand.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by jay vilnai - 19 Apr 02:51AM
I had a teacher in college that had us hunt for errors in scores as an exercise (the idea being to question and asses the importance of every marking). One year it was the Dover score of L'apre Midi, and it was a doozy. Wrong key signatures on transposing instruments - missing rests, too many rests, con sord with no senza sord following.... we had a list that ran 3 pages long.

--
Jay Vilnai
Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, 750GB 7200RPM HD, OS 10.7.5, Sibelius 7.1.3 and 6.2, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, too many guitars

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ed Hirschman - 19 Apr 03:14AM
Thanks everyone - keep them coming!

--
Ed Hirschman
www.artofsoundmusic.com
Sib 7.5, Gateway DX4840-15 (i5), 8G RAM, Win 7

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 19 Apr 09:03AM
Have you seen Norman Del Mar's book Orchestral Variations?

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ronald Krentzman - 19 Apr 12:44PM
MOLA (Major Orchestra Librarians' Association) has a repository of hundreds of errata lists. It is only available to members, though.

I remember the list for Salome was more than 50 pages.

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ed Hirschman - 19 Apr 01:54PM
Great stuff thank you!

--
Ed Hirschman
www.artofsoundmusic.com
Sib 7.5, Gateway DX4840-15 (i5), 8G RAM, Win 7

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Laurence Payne - 19 Apr 02:06PM
Despite the restricted availability, Googling "MOLA errata" will find quite a few to look at.

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ian Schofield - 19 Apr 05:24PM
Vivaldi 'Beatus Vir' for two choirs and two orchestras in the Ricordi edition. There is a short Antiphon, 10 bars to the words 'Beatus Vir'. This is repeated several times as the work progresses. Very simple harmony in C major. I conducted this many years ago, and, because of the pressure of time, didn't rehearse the final appearance. Big mistake! In performance, the final C major chord was 'jazzed up' by a rogue A in one of the violin parts.

Ian Schofield

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ian Schofield - 19 Apr 05:46PM
Ricordi publish two editions of the Vivaldi Gloria. In the vocal score of one of them, the tenors, at the end of the 'Et in terra pax' movement, are expected to sing a G in a B minor chord!! Neither of these, nor the one in my previous post, are particularly old editions. I don't know whether they've been corrected.
Interestingly, the two Gloria editions, at first glance appear identical - certainly in terms of cover / typeface etc. There are however, several significant differences. I have taken part in a number of performances where both editions have 'been in play', leading to a whole series of interesting harmonic collisions.

Ian Schofield

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Rob Tuley - 19 Apr 06:50PM
Re jazzed-up baroque harmony, the old (19th century) Novello edition of Handel's Messiah (with Mozart's additional parts) has an "interesting" moment (I forget exactly where) when Mozart's clarinets in A are written at concert pitch for a few bars, instead of transposed.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Nicholas Freestone - 21 Apr 10:23PM
The new Novello editions of some Stanford liturgical works are error-riddled - however, they are quite small. Things like a wrong note for the organ pedal for just one beat (not a clashing note, but one that makes a different inversion of the chord). Trouble is, this is 'corrupting' the music for future generations, as these are the errors that will not be noticed by many.

Having said that, the new Novello edition of Stanford's Evening Service in A (published 2011, I think) contains some very obvious misprints in the organ part, which is a pity as it is otherwise a much clearer edition than the original (although, some would say, of course, that it loses its charm when the organist no longer has to struggle to play it off two staves!).

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by James - 22 Apr 12:49AM
As a guitar teacher, I find plenty of errors in guitar methods and correct them.

Obviously for classical music of the last century or so it can be much more difficult to determine what is an error. For example, the web site http://www.stanleyyates.com/articles/hvl/hvl.html discusses in detail many questionable notes in Villalobos' solo guitar music. Since Villalobos is dead, we'll never know for sure what he intended.

--
Mac OS 10.9 Mavericks
Sibelius 6.2

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Chris Crawley - 22 Apr 07:46AM (edited 22 Apr 07:47AM)
The conductor James Ross has a "score errors" page on his website (which I have contributed to) at http://www.james-ross.com/score-errors.html - a quite long list of musical works.

It also includes references to some of the musicological works cited above, as well as others.

--
Chris Crawley (horn-player and composer) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ed Hirschman - 22 Apr 08:11AM
Thanks everyone, this has been quite useful! I will include a link to the blog posting once it is done.

--
Ed Hirschman
www.artofsoundmusic.com
Sib 7.5, Gateway DX4840-15 (i5), 8G RAM, Win 7

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Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores
Posted by Ed Hirschman - 25 Apr 08:15PM
Here is the blog posting. Thanks for all the suggestions!

http://www.artofsoundmusic.com/blog/eliminating-sheet-music-notational-errors/



--
Ed Hirschman
www.artofsoundmusic.com
Sib 7.5, Gateway DX4840-15 (i5), 8G RAM, Win 7

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published scores - Ed Hirschman, 18 Apr 12:52AM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Pearl, 18 Apr 02:17AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Pearl, 18 Apr 02:40PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - David, 18 Apr 03:39PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 18 Apr 05:18PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 18 Apr 05:23PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - jay vilnai, 19 Apr 02:51AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 19 Apr 03:14AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Stephen Wrigley, 19 Apr 09:03AM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ronald Krentzman, 19 Apr 12:44PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 19 Apr 01:54PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Laurence Payne, 19 Apr 02:06PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ian Schofield, 19 Apr 05:24PM
                                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ian Schofield, 19 Apr 05:46PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Rob Tuley, 19 Apr 06:50PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Nicholas Freestone, 21 Apr 10:23PM
                                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - James, 22 Apr 12:49AM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Chris Crawley, 22 Apr 07:46AM
                                                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 22 Apr 08:11AM
                                                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: OT: Chronic errors in published ... - Ed Hirschman, 25 Apr 08:15PM