'All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon'

Messages in this thread

All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon - Sam @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 05:09PM
     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip R, 11 Apr 05:23PM
         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 11 Apr 05:42PM
             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 06:05PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Serendipity, 11 Apr 06:47PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:02PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Serendipity, 11 Apr 07:15PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jesper Elén, 11 Apr 06:51PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:04PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 11 Apr 07:21PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:30PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 11 Apr 07:01PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:06PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Dave Budde, 11 Apr 07:09PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip R, 11 Apr 07:17PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:50PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:22PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 11 Apr 07:21PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Hannes Vanlancker, 11 Apr 07:24PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:32PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 11 Apr 09:06PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 03 May 01:45AM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 03 May 12:29PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:28PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 13 Apr 02:59PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 13 Apr 04:10PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 13 Apr 04:44PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:35PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 11 Apr 07:41PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:46PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 04:04PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 11 Apr 07:43PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 07:47PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 11 Apr 07:59PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 11 Apr 08:06PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 11 Apr 08:20PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 11 Apr 08:23PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 11 Apr 09:39PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 11 Apr 09:50PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 11 Apr 09:28PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bernie Cossentino, 11 Apr 09:55PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 11:09PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 11 Apr 11:15PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 11:25PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter Roos, 11 Apr 11:36PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Major, 11 Apr 11:24PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 11 Apr 11:28PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 11 Apr 11:58PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Rob Tuley, 12 Apr 12:08AM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Steve, 12 Apr 01:10AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Matthew Hackett, 12 Apr 01:28AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Dave Budde, 12 Apr 01:48AM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 12 Apr 07:35AM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jesper Elén, 12 Apr 08:32AM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 12 Apr 09:01AM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 10:54AM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 12 Apr 11:08AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 12 Apr 11:20AM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - headphonomenon, 12 Apr 12:08PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 12:15PM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 01:01PM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 01:56PM
                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 02:36PM
                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 02:48PM
                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 03:11PM
                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 03:43PM
                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 04:04PM
                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 04:27PM
                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 04:36PM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 04:49PM
                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 13 Apr 06:32AM
                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ronald Pearl, 12 Apr 02:44PM
                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 03:24PM
                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 03:31PM
                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 03:35PM
                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Francesco, 12 Apr 03:44PM
                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 04:15PM
                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 04:09PM
                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 05:01PM
                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 05:19PM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 05:29PM
                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 05:43PM
                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 05:54PM
                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ronald Pearl, 12 Apr 05:28PM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 06:04PM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 Apr 06:06PM
                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike Lyons, 12 Apr 05:13PM
                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 05:26PM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 12 Apr 06:24PM
                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Marcos dos Santos, 12 Apr 08:39PM
                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 09:08PM
                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jeff Hale, 12 Apr 09:26PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ronald Pearl, 12 Apr 09:30PM
                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 09:32PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 09:56PM
                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 Apr 09:48PM
                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 Apr 10:09PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Marcos dos Santos, 12 Apr 10:44PM
                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 13 Apr 01:36AM
                                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 13 Apr 02:02AM
                                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter Roos, 13 Apr 02:49AM
                                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 13 Apr 06:31AM
                                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 13 Apr 08:45AM
                                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 13 Apr 09:00AM
                                                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 13 Apr 04:12PM
                                                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 13 Apr 05:10PM
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 13 Apr 05:21PM
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 13 Apr 05:29PM
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Hans Nel, 08 Jun 07:36AM
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 08 Jun 04:21PM
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Hans Nel, 08 Jun 07:50AM
                                                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 13 Apr 06:09PM
                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Hans Nel, 08 Jun 07:07AM
     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Uwe Mahnken, 13 Apr 05:38PM
         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 13 Apr 05:58PM
             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bill Myers, 13 Apr 08:25PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 13 Apr 08:47PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 13 Apr 09:02PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - DanClark, 13 Apr 10:45PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 14 Apr 09:58AM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 14 Apr 10:20AM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 14 Apr 01:20PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 14 Apr 01:58PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 14 Apr 02:21PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 14 Apr 02:39PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 14 Apr 02:45PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 14 Apr 03:40PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Paolo Tramannoni, 14 Apr 04:52PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 14 Apr 05:18PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bill Myers, 14 Apr 08:05PM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 14 Apr 08:48PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Paolo Tramannoni, 14 Apr 09:04PM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 14 Apr 09:25PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 14 Apr 05:46PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 14 Apr 05:59PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob K, 14 Apr 06:31PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 14 Apr 08:52PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 15 Apr 04:46AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Neil Sands, 15 Apr 08:35AM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 14 Apr 08:53PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 15 Apr 06:44AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 15 Apr 10:11AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 15 Apr 12:31PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Jones, 19 Apr 04:28PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 15 Apr 08:38AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 15 Apr 12:27PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 15 Apr 03:54PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Rob Tuley, 15 Apr 12:31PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 15 Apr 12:56PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 15 Apr 03:54PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 15 Apr 07:33PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bill Myers, 15 Apr 07:44PM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 15 Apr 07:54PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 15 Apr 08:00PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bill Myers, 16 Apr 11:47AM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jeremy Aknai, 16 Apr 11:44AM
     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Sparke, 16 Apr 08:28AM
         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Howard Lorriman, 16 Apr 01:26PM
             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Sam @ Sibelius, 16 Apr 07:10PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Derek Bourgeois, 17 Apr 10:28AM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 10:39AM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 17 Apr 10:47AM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 17 Apr 11:02AM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Derek Bourgeois, 17 Apr 10:54AM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 11:48AM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Derek Bourgeois, 17 Apr 12:01PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 12:21PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 17 Apr 12:55PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 01:39PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 17 Apr 02:38PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 17 Apr 03:26PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 17 Apr 03:56PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 17 Apr 04:40PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 17 Apr 05:04PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 17 Apr 03:18PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 05:25PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 17 Apr 05:30PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 17 Apr 05:51PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Greg Jones, 17 Apr 07:58PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 17 Apr 08:13PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Steve, 17 Apr 10:14PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 18 Apr 12:58AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Steve, 18 Apr 03:35AM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 18 Apr 04:38AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike P., 17 Apr 08:11PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jesper Elén, 17 Apr 08:18PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 17 Apr 08:29PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Zawalich, 18 Apr 05:21AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 18 Apr 10:55AM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 18 Apr 11:06AM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 18 Apr 12:10PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 18 Apr 10:18AM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 18 Apr 10:23AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike Lyons, 18 Apr 09:10PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 18 Apr 10:48PM
     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 18 Apr 10:51PM
         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Rob Tuley, 19 Apr 04:43AM
             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Sparke, 19 Apr 08:11AM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike Lyons, 19 Apr 09:02AM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 19 Apr 04:33PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 19 Apr 05:11PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 19 Apr 05:24PM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 19 Apr 05:33PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 19 Apr 06:31PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 19 Apr 09:37PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 19 Apr 09:43PM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter McAleer, 19 Apr 10:18PM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Peter Roos, 19 Apr 11:20PM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Nome, 19 Apr 11:42PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Patrick O'Keefe, 20 Apr 03:25AM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 20 Apr 05:07AM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 20 Apr 10:21AM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Stephen Wrigley, 20 Apr 11:57AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 20 Apr 12:05PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ian Schofield, 20 Apr 01:42PM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 21 Apr 07:53AM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Sparke, 22 Apr 10:55AM
                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 22 Apr 11:28AM
                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Sparke, 22 Apr 11:37AM
                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 22 Apr 11:55AM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Steve, 03 May 09:42PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jim Druckenmiller, 23 Apr 07:30AM
                                                                     Re: - Roger W, 27 Apr 08:23AM
                                                                         Re: - Joe @ Sibelius, 27 Apr 10:13AM
                                                                             Re: - Philip Woodroffe, 27 Apr 06:28PM
                                                                                 Re: - Joe @ Sibelius, 28 Apr 01:10PM
                                                                                     Re: - Philip Woodroffe, 29 Apr 12:12AM
                                                                                         Re: - Joe @ Sibelius, 29 Apr 11:43AM
                                                                                             Re: - Philip Woodroffe, 29 Apr 06:15PM
                                                                                                 Re: - Sam @ Sibelius, 30 Apr 09:48PM
                                                                                                     Re: - Philip Woodroffe, 01 May 06:06PM
                                                                                                         Re: - Sam @ Sibelius, 06 May 09:33AM
                                                                                                             Re: - Philip Woodroffe, 06 May 07:36PM
                                                                                                                 Re: - Sam @ Sibelius, 07 May 02:01PM
                                                                             Re: - Roger W, 27 Apr 09:38PM
                                                                                 Re: - Joe @ Sibelius, 28 Apr 01:04PM
                                                                                     Re: - Tony Wakefield, 29 Apr 11:30AM
                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 29 Apr 11:55AM
                                                                                         Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 12:47PM
                                                                                             Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 01:00PM
                                                                                                 Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 01:54PM
                                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 02:00PM
                                                                                                         Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 03:04PM
                                                                                                             Re: - Claude Voit, 03 May 03:53PM
                                                                                                             Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 04:05PM
                                                                                                                 Re: - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 03 May 04:42PM
                                                                                                                     Re: - Tony Wakefield, 03 May 05:41PM
                                                                                                                         Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 05:58PM
                                                                                                                 Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 05:35PM
                                                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 07:24PM
                                                                                                                         Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 07:29PM
                                                                                                                             Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 07:38PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 03 May 07:52PM
                                                                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 08:01PM
                                                                                                                         Re: - Chris Crawley, 03 May 07:40PM
                                                                                                                             Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 07:51PM
                                                                                                                             Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 07:54PM
                                                                                                                             Re: - Laurence Payne, 03 May 07:56PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 08:03PM
                                                                                                                             Re: - Mike P., 03 May 08:26PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 08:48PM
                                                                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 03 May 09:00PM
                                                                                                 Re: - Hans Nel, 08 Jun 12:33PM
                                                                                                     Re: - Bob Morabito, 08 Jun 12:56PM
                                                                                                         Re: - Hans Nel, 08 Jun 06:32PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Steve, 03 May 09:49PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike Lyons, 04 May 06:11AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 04 May 07:15AM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 04 May 07:39AM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Chris Crawley, 06 May 01:39PM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Woodroffe, 06 May 07:15PM
     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robert S Ross, 07 May 06:24PM
         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Heikki M Malmberg, 09 May 08:20AM
             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Kenneth Gaw, 09 May 05:26PM
                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Jones, 09 May 08:00PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 09 May 08:07PM
                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 10 May 11:50AM
                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 10 May 12:31PM
                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 10 May 12:42PM
                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 10 May 09:13PM
                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ronald Pearl, 11 May 01:25AM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 11 May 10:27AM
                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - jasper. franklin, 11 May 11:45AM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 12 May 05:36AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 May 06:02AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 12 May 06:35AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 08:30AM
                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Richard Vitale, 12 May 06:24AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 12 May 10:01AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 10:13AM
                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Robin Walker, 12 May 10:02AM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 10:16AM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 12 May 10:54AM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 11:14AM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 12 May 11:53AM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 12:22PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 12 May 02:03PM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 12 May 03:18PM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 03:50PM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Dave Budde, 12 May 04:32PM
                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Richard Vitale, 12 May 05:50PM
                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 12 May 05:57PM
                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Richard Vitale, 12 May 06:15PM
                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 12 May 06:31PM
                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ronald Pearl, 12 May 08:55PM
                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - David, 12 May 09:00PM
                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Mike Lyons, 12 May 09:08PM
                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 12 May 09:19PM
                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Richard Vitale, 13 May 05:40PM
                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Joe @ Sibelius, 13 May 06:36PM
                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 13 May 06:44PM
                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Ralph L. Bowers Jr., 13 May 07:01PM
                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 15 May 02:37AM
                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Jesper Elén, 15 May 05:44AM
                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Adrian Drover, 15 May 05:47AM
                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Bob Morabito, 15 May 06:52AM
                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Laurence Payne, 15 May 10:31AM
                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tonepainter , 14 Jul 03:25PM
                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Cause, 14 Jul 04:00PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - James, 14 Jul 06:23PM
                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 15 Jul 09:17AM
                                                                                                                             Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Venancio @ Avid, 15 Jul 07:58PM
                                                                                                                                 Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Philip Sparke, 16 Jul 07:42AM
                                                                                                                                     Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Tony Wakefield, 16 Jul 09:48AM
                                                                                                                                         Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options comi... - Venancio @ Avid, 16 Jul 08:22PM

All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 05:09PM (edited 11 Apr 05:12PM)
Hi,

I'm excited to pre-announce new licensing options and new features coming to Sibelius soon.

In the future, releases of Sibelius will be more regular than before with features that will support new types of workflows, devices and technology to help you create even better music than before. As the releases will be closer together, we can bring smaller releases to you quicker rather than waiting two years for other features to be ready all at once. (It won't stop us doing larger changes though as we can split our dev team to work on different projects and features as necessary)

To allow us to do this, we are introducing offers to all our customers (new and old) to always have access to the latest features and always be covered by support. This will be delivered through our new Avid Application Manager that allows us to simplify the activation process to a simple log-in to your Avid account so no need to worry about various IDs, serial numbers, computer numbers and registration numbers!

The new offers are for new customers to have a choice about how they get on board with Sibelius. We'll continue to have 'perpetual' licenses, which are what we have today where you buy Sibelius and you own that license. We'll include a year of upgrades and support with that and you'll get the new features and those we release during that year. You'll then have to just buy the upgrades and support to continue to receive these thereafter. As well as this, we are now introducing annual and monthly subscription offers at low entry points. While under these plans, you get the upgrades and support, and the subscription needs to be renewed for these to continue. Aside to this, our commitment to schools, students and teachers continues with the our regular discounts.

Along with the new subscription and upgrade plans we're announcing, we are introducing new features too. In summary:

  • Annotate - draw and mark up your score directly in Sibelius with super-smooth annotations that attach to the stave that can even be coloured too. Entered either using a Pen on a Surface Pro (if you have one) or using your mouse or track pad. This will be invaluable with Classroom Control and many other workflows too

  • Multi-touch support - you can now Pinch-zoom in and out using any multi-touch device/track-pad

  • Support for Surface Pro 3 Pen - use the buttons to select and delete objects in the score

  • Updated UI - Keypad and Transport windows are getting a new look with the other floating windows getting a few tweaks as well

  • High-res support on Windows - we now support DPI scaling so Sibelius looks nice and crisp on Windows displays that support DPI scaling

  • PhotoScore - is becoming 'PhotoScore & NotateMe Ultimate', which includes the brand new NotateMe 3 handwriting recognition engine, allowing you to handwrite your scores and have it turned into notation in real-time. As with previous versions of NotateMe, it learns your style of handwriting and doesn't need set ways for you to write the music in. PhotoScore & NotateMe Lite will come bundled with Sibelius and will include a subset of the NotateMe features

  • AudioScore - now has an improved audio recognition engine too


An overview of the new features in Sibelius can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DozJwBAm2lo

If you're lucky enough to be at the Musikmesse show in Frankfurt, Germany next week, please pop by the Avid booth in hall 5.1 and you'll be able to get hands-on session with one of our experts. I'll be there too so send me an email and I'll be happy to meet up!

These features set us up really well for the future where we'll be able to build on these to bring new UI, editing workflows and, very importantly, notation improvements.

I'll share more detailed news about the features in due course. If you have any questions, please leave them below.

Sam


--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip R - 11 Apr 05:23PM
Thanks, Sam. Looking forward to hearing more and best wishes for Musikmesse.

Here is the relevant post on Sibelius blog:

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/next-sibelius-release/

--
Sibelius 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Mac 10.9.5
Mac Pro (Late 2013) 32 GB RAM
http://www.nycmusicservices.com/
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Apr 05:42PM
So Sibelius want £70.80 from us existing owners every year, in order to keep on the upgrade track? And if we miss a payment, we can't get back on the train?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 06:05PM
Hi Laurence,

There will be a grace period so users won't get caught out.

Under the old model, we used to release one big update to Sibelius every two years, upgrades priced at roughly the $180 mark. That's how we came up with the $89 pricing point for perpetual licenses.

Under the new model, you can expect regular updates and new features throughout the year. This will also let us respond quickly to user needs and feature requirements as and when they appear - rather than waiting for two years to respond. I'm pretty excited about it.

Let me know if you've got more questions.

Joe

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Serendipity - 11 Apr 06:47PM
I've looked at the relevant Avid page and I admit to being just a bit confused. I already own an up to date Sibelius, bought with educational discount. If I want to have an annual subscription, as far as I can see the cost is the same for a student as it is for anyone else - $89. Is that correct?

Regards

Andrew Harvey

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:02PM
> If I want to have an annual subscription, as far as I can see the cost is the same for a student as it is for anyone else - $89. Is that correct?

We're offering Sibelius at $8.25 a month for our educational users - we're hoping this will mean a lower barrier than ever for our teachers and students to get the full version of Sibelius.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Serendipity - 11 Apr 07:15PM
Thanks for your (very quick - and on a Saturday evening!) reply.

Erm, doesn't $8.25 a month amount to $99.48 a year, which is more that an annual subscription so how is that a help?

Perhaps I'm not understanding the idea of the monthly payment. Do you have to pay that every month until such time as you decide not to in which case you still own a working copy of Sibelius that is 'stuck' at the point at which you ceased your subscription?

Or are you saying that you can make a monthly payment as and when you wish, perhaps two or three times a year and when you make that payment you will have your copy of Sibelius then updated to the current version?

If my first supposition is correct, once you get off the band wagon, can you rejoin at some point in the future, and if so, how?

Andrew

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jesper Elén - 11 Apr 06:51PM
Exactly as with Pro Tools which caused a storm over at the DUC user forum.
Many abandoning Pro Tools.
Forced to pay every year more or less.
Can't wait for Daniel and the old teams new software release.

Jesper


--
MacBook Pro, 8GB, OS 10.9.4,
Sibelius 7.5.1, Wallander Instruments Brass & Woodwind 2.3.7,
Wallander Instruments NotePerformer 1.4.2,
EZDrummer 2.0.2 + Jazz EZX 1.5.1, Pianoteq Pro 5.1.4, Acoustic Samples The Upright

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:04PM
Hi Jesper,

With the monthly subscription you can pick it up whenever you like, meaning you're never forced to pay. The idea is that we can vastly lower the barrier to entry, and send you more regular updates and features throughout the year, and also include support.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Apr 07:21PM
> Hi Jesper,
>
> With the monthly subscription you can pick it up whenever you like, meaning you're never forced to pay. The idea is that we can vastly lower the barrier to entry, and send you more regular updates and features throughout the year, and also include support.


But any month you DON'T pay, Sibelius stops working? You're buying a month's use of the latest available version.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:30PM
> But any month you DON'T pay, Sibelius stops working? You're buying a month's use of the latest available version.

On the monthly subscription = yes.
On the yearly subscription = similarly yes, except lasting for a year.
On the perpetual license = no, you always own Sibelius, much like the current model.

All licensing models include grace periods as I've mentioned so you won't find yourself caught out mid project (and our support team will of course have tools to make sure our users are looked after in the event of disaster).

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 11 Apr 07:01PM
> Hi Laurence,
>
> There will be a grace period so users won't get caught out.
>
> Under the old model, we used to release one big update to Sibelius every two years, upgrades priced at roughly the $180 mark. That's how we came up with the $89 pricing point for perpetual licenses.
>
> Under the new model, you can expect regular updates and new features throughout the year. This will also let us respond quickly to user needs and feature requirements as and when they appear - rather than waiting for two years to respond. I'm pretty excited about it.
>
> Let me know if you've got more questions.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Yes but under the old way if one chose NOT to upgrade, they kept using their version of Sibelius..

What happens now if you choose to not upgrade?

Thanks Bob

PS: Joe Pearson also wrote:

>I'm pretty excited about it.

Well that makes ONE of us.


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:06PM
Hi Bob,

If you choose not to upgrade your perpetual license, you keep that version of Sibelius forever - it's yours.

If you allow your perpetual license to expire, if you then want to upgrade in the future, you can sign up for a monthly or annual subscription.

Let me know if you have more questions.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Dave Budde - 11 Apr 07:09PM
Question for Joe...

How is it possible for a perpetual license to expire? Certainly you must mean something else.

--

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip R - 11 Apr 07:17PM
Hi everyone, I've tried to spell it out as best as I understand on the blog.

To Dave: I think Joe meant the annual upgrade plan, one year of which is included with a new perpetual license. Perpetual licensees will only be entitled to that limited term of upgrades. The software will continue to function beyond the initial one-year support term, but a new support package will be required for the licensee to take advantage of upgrades issued after the initial term.

--
Sibelius 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Mac 10.9.5
Mac Pro (Late 2013) 32 GB RAM
http://www.nycmusicservices.com/
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:50PM
> Hi everyone, I've tried to spell it out as best as I understand on the blog.
>
> To Dave: I think Joe meant the annual upgrade plan, one year of which is included with a new perpetual license. Perpetual licensees will only be entitled to that limited term of upgrades. The software will continue to function beyond the initial one-year support term, but a new support package will be required for the licensee to take advantage of upgrades issued after the initial term.

Thanks Philip - very well put. It's getting late here :)!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:22PM
> Question for Joe...
>
> How is it possible for a perpetual license to expire? Certainly you must mean something else.
>
> --

Yes I couldn't quite think how to describe it without using the word "expire"!

Here's an example:

You purchase an upgrade to the perpetual license at $89 a year. Over the next couple of years, you'll receive regular upgrades automatically, and perhaps at that point we'll be on something like Sibelius 8.5 (theoretically). If you decide _not_ to renew your perpetual license, you'll continue to own Sibelius 8.5 forever, but you won't get updates any more.

After a grace period, you then lose your right to the cheap yearly rate ($89) - although you can continue using Sibelius 8.5 to your hearts content. You then have the option of a new annual or monthly subscription, or a new perpetual licence. Which is the best value for you depends on how much you use Sibelius and how much you value the upgrades and committed support we'll be providing.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 11 Apr 07:21PM
> Hi Laurence,
>
> There will be a grace period so users won't get caught out.
>
> Under the old model, we used to release one big update to Sibelius every two years, upgrades priced at roughly the $180 mark. That's how we came up with the $89 pricing point for perpetual licenses.
>
> Under the new model, you can expect regular updates and new features throughout the year. This will also let us respond quickly to user needs and feature requirements as and when they appear - rather than waiting for two years to respond. I'm pretty excited about it.
>

Under the old system there may have been a major upgrade about every two years, but you didn't have to buy them. We could skip versions or buy them on our own schedule. We could see what was offered and read the comments of early adopters before committing ourselves.

Under the new system we have to pay up front, hoping there may be something worth the cost some time in the future. If the previewed changes are typical, we're in for a bunch of GUI changes but no improvements in the core notational capabilities. I see nothing worth paying for there. Is that likely to change? Seeing how few things on the Ideascale have been accepted for action, I don't see what we would be getting for our $89 per year for many years.

Of course Avid is excited about this change. They can get a lot of money from us while offering nothing but hope in return.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Hannes Vanlancker - 11 Apr 07:24PM
And where is the improvement for engravers in this new version?? Is there a list of features available? The pen tool is comes in more handy in stead of using the comment tool now, that's true. But have they used the comments on http://sibelius.ideascale.com to really improve the core of the program and to get rid of the annoying bugs that keep appearing in every new version?

--
Hannes Vanlancker| music engraver Hal Leonard MGB
Sibelius 7.5.1 - iMac 5K 27"
hannes.vanlancker@vives.be

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:32PM
> And where is the improvement for engravers in this new version?? Is there a list of features available? The pen tool is comes in more handy in stead of using the comment tool now, that's true. But have they used the comments on http://sibelius.ideascale.com to really improve the core of the program and to get rid of the annoying bugs that keep appearing in every new version?

We're not just adding the annotation feature - we've actually got proper pen support for the Surface (and other Windows tablets, but we're concentrating on the Surface). Note entry and editing with the pen is incredibly fast. We've designed workflows that allow you to quickly enter notes and whole phrases using the pen, quickly navigating through the score with touch too - without having to put the pen down to use the keyboard.

Although of course, the keyboard continues to work and continues to be supported - all the same shortcuts for those of you that might have them under your fingers!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 11 Apr 09:06PM
> We're not just adding the annotation feature - we've actually got proper pen support for the Surface (and other Windows tablets, but we're concentrating on the Surface).

Oh boy! I can't imagine how we Sibelius users have lived without that feature.

Now perhaps I'm way off base, but I don't think Avid has a perfectly accurate image of the typical Sibelius user.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 03 May 01:45AM
> > And where is the improvement for engravers in this new version?? Is there a list of features available? The pen tool is comes in more handy in stead of using the comment tool now, that's true. But have they used the comments on http://sibelius.ideascale.com to really improve the core of the program and to get rid of the annoying bugs that keep appearing in every new version?
>
> We're not just adding the annotation feature - we've actually got proper pen support for the Surface (and other Windows tablets, but we're concentrating on the Surface). Note entry and editing with the pen is incredibly fast. We've designed workflows that allow you to quickly enter notes and whole phrases using the pen, quickly navigating through the score with touch too - without having to put the pen down to use the keyboard.
>
> Although of course, the keyboard continues to work and continues to be supported - all the same shortcuts for those of you that might have them under your fingers!
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

I like the ability to enter notation via pen. More natural for us older folks. See link below.
All that said I'd rather have the old purchase model (or at least one that does not so severely punish those who might fall off the perpetual upgrade) and a massive amount of bug fixes.

http://www.marcs.uws.edu.au/links/ICoMusic/ArchiveCD/Full_Paper_PDF/Peterson_Schubert.pdf

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.4.2c, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 12:29PM
>All that said I'd rather have the old purchase model (or at least one that does not so severely punish those who might fall off the perpetual upgrade) and a massive amount of bug fixes.
Hi Ralph

Despite the subscription plan itself, plus its features, etc being so soundly rejected, I think its very telling that it seems Avid is *still* going to go forward with it.

This very clearly speaks what Avid thinks of its user base, and sadly how much they dont care, and how the long time users dont count..our needs, wishes, etc are being ignored, and us loyal users discarded, for new useless features, aimed to rope in the new user, with his new $$$.

The rest is, as has so eloquently been put "Pr-Speak, and BS" to try and sell this plan, and repair Avids image here...
neither of which seems to be very successful.

Thanks Bob

PS As for bug fixes pl see http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=675752&groupid=3&

where in the same FB response Sam both says it "likely" purely bug fix releases will be given to all regardless of if they are on the subscription plan or not; then he goes on to say they *WILL be*, and some more which is unclear, and he hasnt made it clear which is which.

We still look forward to that.

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:28PM
> Under the new system we have to pay up front, hoping there may be something worth the cost some time in the future. If the previewed changes are typical, we're in for a bunch of GUI changes but no improvements in the core notational capabilities. I see nothing worth paying for there. Is that likely to change? Seeing how few things on the Ideascale have been accepted for action, I don't see what we would be getting for our $89 per year for many years.

Ultimately that's going to be a decision that you as a user makes. I must say it's been personally frustrating for me (and indeed all of us) that we haven't been able to get more notational improvements in for this version, since we've been tied up developing Sibelius | Cloud Publishing. I can say that this certainly won't always continue to be the case in the future - Sibelius is a notation and composition tool, and that's why my efforts in improvement will lie for a while.

IdeaScale - I do keep an eye on it! Even though we don't "accept" ideas directly on IdeaScale (which would give the game away a bit!), we do discuss them and we've got a fair few features planned on the back of some of that feedback.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 13 Apr 02:59PM

>
> Ultimately that's going to be a decision that you as a user makes. I must say it's been personally frustrating for me (and indeed all of us) that we haven't been able to get more notational improvements in for this version, since we've been tied up developing Sibelius | Cloud Publishing. I can say that this certainly won't always continue to be the case in the future - Sibelius is a notation and composition tool, and that's why my efforts in improvement will lie for a while.
>

> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius

Thank you for saying that, I appreciate your candor. It seems to be a Catch-22 for both sides: Avid is saying "Hey longtime users, you gotta get this new upgrade or else your kicked off the "perpetual" upgrade path, but the "upgrade" only affects a small percentage of you with Surface Pro-type needs/workflow. If you don't, you either become a 'renter' or start over and buy the whole thing from scratch". Ouch. That's gonna be a tough sell.

It seems Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans. While that might make sense financially at first glance, they have made one huge miscalculation: the veterans are basically the Sibelius Sales Team! I've "sold" at least 3 full versions, 3 people pondered the "Finale or Sibelius" question and went with Sibelius because I used it, and they valued my work/charts/expertise etc. When that is multiplied by all the longtime users doing the same, well, that's your sales force. The newbies purchase it because the old school speaks highly of the product AND the company, it's that simple. Telling those old school people that they have to get an upgrade they can't really benefit from is, well, one huge risk.

Cakewalk has gone subscription, but they have kept the "old way" pretty much intact as well. One can upgrade at any point, or "rent". That seems reasonable. Avid is basically kicking "version-jumpers" to the curb, and that's a huge risk when the new version apparently doesn't have anything for the vast majority of the customers. Ouch, again.

--
7.5.1, Windows 7

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 04:10PM
Hi David,

Existing users will get a year from the day that we release to take advantage of the the $89 upgrade. That means you'll get a year to watch from afar as we unfurl the new model, and you can make up your own mind - so you won't be left out in the cold by not upgrading immediately.

When you say "Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans" - I can see why you might perceive that. I think it's probably the same frustration that I mentioned earlier about not having more notation-specific improvements to offer with this version, but that won't always be the case in the future.

JP

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 13 Apr 04:44PM
> Hi David,
>
> Existing users will get a year from the day that we release to take advantage of the the $89 upgrade. That means you'll get a year to watch from afar as we unfurl the new model, and you can make up your own mind - so you won't be left out in the cold by not upgrading immediately.
>
> When you say "Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans" - I can see why you might perceive that. I think it's probably the same frustration that I mentioned earlier about not having more notation-specific improvements to offer with this version, but that won't always be the case in the future.
>
> JP
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Hi Joe, thanks for responding. Yeah, I guess we'll find out 364 days after the release if the "new model" is going to fly. I'm sure I speak for many in saying that we want Sibelius to succeed. I'm a pro symphony player, so I know all too well the conflicts between the bean-counters and the product makers. Good luck!
--
7.5.1, Windows 7

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:35PM
> Under the new system we have to pay up front, hoping there may be something worth the cost some time in the future. If the previewed changes are typical, we're in for a bunch of GUI changes but no improvements in the core notational capabilities. I see nothing worth paying for there. Is that likely to change? Seeing how few things on the Ideascale have been accepted for action, I don't see what we would be getting for our $89 per year for many years.

Just thought of something else I should add:

I'm very much aware that many of our users depend on Sibelius, so we'll always take care when pushing out updates. Updates aren't forced upon you (although you are automatically notified) so you can choose as and when to upgrade.

I'll also have a think about how the new regular update schedule could allow us to be more open about what we're up to. No news there yet but I'll see what we can do.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 11 Apr 07:41PM
Well for all the many users who were undecided and sitting on the fence about switching to Steinberg, you all just got a HUGE push off that fence by Avid right into Steinbergs arms.

And I must say --Im offended by how and whats presented here--youre trying to sugar coat this, but when it looks like, feels like and smells like--well, we all know what it is.

One might have thought AVID would have changed after all its recent problems..

Thanks Bob





--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:46PM
Hi Bob,

It's a new model for us too, and we'll have to see how it goes!

JP

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 04:04PM (edited 12 Apr 05:00PM)
It's all about "Monetization" for Avids services and products Bob.
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/avid-everywhere-and-the-possible-future-direction-of-sibelius/

There is also the blog about the cloud service http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/avids-sam-butler-and-joe-pearson-on-sibelius-cloud-publishing/
Anyway it's all about paying the VIG.......right?
--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Apr 07:43PM (edited 11 Apr 07:46PM)
Right, got it. I'm off to the pub. Anyone fancy a bet this thread reaches 100 posts by the time I get back? :-)

Maybe a side bet on the Steinberg Thing imposing a similar pricing system when it does appear? Not to mention Finale, now the competition have given them permission?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 07:47PM
> Right, got it. I'm off to the pub.

Jolly good idea....

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 11 Apr 07:59PM

> Maybe a side bet on the Steinberg Thing imposing a similar pricing system when it does appear?

From 6 months ago:

http://www.musicaltoronto.org/2014/10/22/lines-of-enquiry-the-future-of-notation-software/

"Q:Has Steinberg considered a subscription model? This seems to be a trend in professional software, such as Microsoft Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud. Relatedly, are there plans for a significant cloud/internet oriented component on the product?

A:We haven’t decided exactly on pricing and sales model for our new product, but I expect that we will follow the kind of model that has been successful for Steinberg’s other products. At the moment, Steinberg doesn’t offer any subscription pricing options."

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Apr 08:06PM
> "Q:Has Steinberg considered a subscription model? This seems to be a trend in professional software, such as Microsoft Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud. Relatedly, are there plans for a significant cloud/internet oriented component on the product?
>
> A:We haven’t decided exactly on pricing and sales model for our new product, but I expect that we will follow the kind of model that has been successful for Steinberg’s other products. At the moment, Steinberg doesn’t offer any subscription pricing options."
>>>>>>>>

Um. Not exactly a guarantee. And it won't be a decision for the development team, will it? Corporate will decide, and tell them to implement it.

Now I AM going to the pub :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 11 Apr 08:20PM
>Um. Not exactly a guarantee.

No one said it was.

>And it won't be a decision for the development team, will it? Corporate will decide, and tell them to implement it.

I have no information on that, and in the same vein, neither do you, or any of us--

I read what Daniel said regarding this and I simply posted what he said regarding this--that's all, as I think its important to whats going on here.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 11 Apr 08:23PM
ok i think i get this more or less, one thing i would like to know say for example i bought a perpetual package, i get that you get feature updates for a year included, thats no problem, lets say after the year i no longer renewed the feature subscription, and then a new mac os broke the functionality of sibelius, would you provide a free maintenance update to allow my perpetual license to still run, i don't see why this would need to be paid for, so in essence I'm asking if bug fixes would be outside of the subscription model.

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 11 Apr 09:39PM (edited 11 Apr 09:43PM)
I think this question still remains unanswered, i have 7.5 now, how long after the dreaded new system comes out will i have before i have to pay my £79 music mortgage?

lets say sibelius brings out this feature in may 2015, do i have to make my first payment for upgrade in the same time as whatever the grace period is on expired upgrades for perpetual licences.(79)

question 2, you quoted at present 7.5 counts as a perpetual license does this mean that eventually in the second year sibelius will want the 12 month price plan rather than £79.

People are more concerned about music rather than working out this horribly confusing mess, I'm not impressed by the GRACE PERIOD it really sucks, and people that have remained faithful to Sibelius will be sorely tempted to move.

I wonder how long it will be till avid refuse to activate 7.5 for people who don't feed them with an income?

hope neuratron don't impose this otherwise things get really really nasty.
--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 11 Apr 09:50PM
Well, I won`t be around for much longer, so that`ll be a no from me. But you by all means keep going Avid, you`ll all soon be able to buy your luxury yachts. But watch this space - there`ll soon be no more sea space for them.

Oh, I`m not paying a cent to *anyone* without knowing up front *exactly* what I`m buying. Isn`t that the way business, commerce, and markets is supposed to work? ;)
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 11 Apr 09:28PM
> Maybe a side bet on the Steinberg Thing imposing a similar pricing system when it does appear? Not to mention Finale, now the competition have given them permission?
>
It's true that Steinberg and MakeMusic are probably watching this move with interest, but my first thought when reading Avid's pee-announcement was that Finale just started looking more attractive, and I became even more eager to see what Steinberg comes up with.

Subscription models are not inherently bad, but the company has to produce goods and services worth paying for. With Sibelius, Avid took over a product worth paying for and then got rid of the people that made the product worth paying for. Perhaps they should do something to build customer respect before trying a pricing model that depends on customer respect.
--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bernie Cossentino - 11 Apr 09:55PM
To say this new pricing model leaves a bitter taste in my mouth would be a perpetual understatement.

--
Sibelius 7.1.3
Windows 7 Pro 64bit, 8GB ram
www.twinpagemusic.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 11:09PM (edited 11 Apr 11:32PM)
Hi Philip,

> ok i think i get this more or less, one thing i would like to know say for example i bought a perpetual package, i get that you get feature updates for a year included, thats no problem, lets say after the year i no longer renewed the feature subscription, and then a new mac os broke the functionality of sibelius, would you provide a free maintenance update to allow my perpetual license to still run, i don't see why this would need to be paid for, so in essence I'm asking if bug fixes would be outside of the subscription model.

This depends on a number of things. In all likelyhood, we'll issue a patch to resolve the problem and make it available to anyone who is on that current version, even if their upgrade plan had expired. This isn't as simple as you think. Under law (and I'm no lawyer), software companies can't provide updates that include any features or OS copatibilties for free. Many of us did it and still do but it's one of the things that a lot of companies get into trouble doing. In fact, moving to the new upgrade plan and subscription model solves many of these business problems. It will also free us up to talk about our future plans and uprgades too, which we've never been able to do before.

> how long after the dreaded new system comes out will i have before i have to pay my £79 music mortgage?

It'll be around a year, by which time we will have released several more features. We'll provide more information about this in due course.

> question 2, you quoted at present 7.5 counts as a perpetual license does this mean that eventually in the second year sibelius will want the 12 month price plan rather than £79.

The renewal price on a perpetual license is the $89/£70. This gives you access to another year of uprgades as well as access to support.

> I'm not impressed by the GRACE PERIOD

We'll give you plenty of warning if you haven't set an option to auto-renew, and we'll have time after that where you'll still get the chance to renew. If you leave this a very long time, it's then that a new perpetual license or subscription will be available to you. From the feedback we're getting today, I'm going to seek clarification on the points people have raised.

> I wonder how long it will be till avid refuse to activate 7.5 for people who don't feed them with an income?

We will never refuse a product activation. You can still activate and register Sibelius 1.4 if you really want to and in fact, I can still generate replacement floppy disks for your Acorn version too...

--

Hi Tony,

> Oh, I`m not paying a cent to *anyone* without knowing up front *exactly* what I`m buying.

You don't have to pay the upgrade yet for more than a year and by that time we will have had several upgrades adding new functionality, notation and engraving improvements and infratructure. You can then get on board and receive a year's worth of upgrades and support from then on.

--

Hi Patrick,

> Perhaps they should do something to build customer respect before trying a pricing model that depends on customer respect.

Over the last few years, as well as releasing the most stable and feature-rich version of Sibelius yet, we've improved compatibilty with our Scorch plugin and iOS app to allow musicians to consume music in more ways than before, and for publishers to continue to sell digital sheet music to millions of people around the world, plus reengineer the whole publishing platform to the cloud to make the consumption of digital sheet music available on more devices to reach even more people. Once Sibelius Cloud Publishing released, which will be very soon, it'll have the knock-on effect of allowing more and more people learn and perform music and be part of the joy music brings to us fellow musicians every day.

To that point, we're all very keen musicians here in the Sibelius team and we are working hard on making the products as good as possible. If it weren't for the change in pricing model we wouldn't be able to release any of these new features for another year and a half, at least. Now though, we're able to build on the foundation we laid with the 7.5.1 update and bring new features and workflows that will put us in great stead for the future.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 Apr 11:15PM
>Under law (and I'm no lawyer), software companies can't provide updates that include any features or OS copatibilties for free.

WHAT?!!!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 11:25PM
> >Under law (and I'm no lawyer), software companies can't provide updates that include any features or OS compatibilities for free.
>
> WHAT?!!!

Indeed. It's to do with spending time and engineering effort on something you give away for free to people who bought your product based on the features and compatibility it had at the time of release. Companies then have problems recognising the revenue in the right financial quarter or even the right financial year. Remember the financial review we've had to go through (who can forget?), well it all had to do with how we recognised the revenue for products that gave away too much compatibility and features in free updates. It's all behind us now

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter Roos - 11 Apr 11:36PM
Interesting ... three questions for Sam / Joe:

1. Is there any difference in support whether you have a perpetual license, an annual license or a monthly license? (they do make this distinction for Pro Tools I believe)

2. I can't make it to Musikmesse but I would be very interested in seeing a detailed demo of how the smart pen / surface pro works, and maybe a blog by Philip just focusing on this?

3. I am really intrigued by the Microsoft Surface Pro, not just for the new Sibelius but also StaffPad. Is anyone here using Microsoft Surface Pro with Sibelius? This is a pricey piece of hardware, if you want to run say a larger orchestral score with the built in sounds, or maybe noteperformer, or God forbid even the eastwest symphonic orchestra, how much ram / processor should you ideally have?

And thanks!!

(on a side note, this model is similar to that for Pro Tools, as you probably noticed there it was very poorly received by the user basis, but I'd say that that is also because of the nasty carrot / stick approach of not being to upgrade in the future if you don't jump onboard before the end of the year, and the dismal list of new "features" in PT 12)

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Major - 11 Apr 11:24PM

> Subscription models are not inherently bad, but the company has to produce goods and services worth paying for.

That's the point IMHO.

There was no real feature improvements in this new release in a arranger/composer/engraver point of view. Avid wants us to jump in paying more without offering any new features that Sibelius really need. Not appealing. Not to mention that outrageous model that if you don't pay the annual fee once in the "perpetual license" you can't never more apply for an update. Not fare.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 11 Apr 11:28PM
Hi Major,

If you have Sibelius 7.5 and the new features don't appeal to you just yet, then wait until they do.

Thanks for the feedback on the fairness and practicalities of the renewal. We'll pass this on.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 11 Apr 11:58PM (edited 12 Apr 12:02AM)
"Under law (and I'm no lawyer), software companies can't provide updates that include any features or OS compatibilities for free."

how do apple give their os for free then surely that is both feature and os updating, from a version that was initially paid for, as part of the computer or initially in a paid version. If the updates are free i don't see how this messes up accounting, are you saying you have to make an inventory of what features were available at the time to justify the initial price paid.

surely when you had the old model of upgrade, versions, this would have meant that new features were paid for anyway, i can't see this as anything other than a convenient excuse.

btw thank you sam for your prompt answers, i do appreciate what you are doing, I think all these new options are completely baffling and you are at real risk of alienating new and old customers, all this has certainly rattled me so far.

Oh and also IMHO i think it may have been better to have saved all this till you had the answer to some pretty inevitable questions.
--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Rob Tuley - 12 Apr 12:08AM
Hmm... I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Avid publish their April Fool joke 11 days late, and that it's not even funny.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Steve - 12 Apr 01:10AM
> Hmm... I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Avid publish their April Fool joke 11 days late, and that it's not even funny.
>
> --
> Rob



This.

Aside - Excuse my deteriorism, but all commercial software seems to be heading this route, and unless "customers" soundly reject the subscription model (when they can without jeopardizing their livelihood) there will be no hope of escaping this nightmarish future where we own nothing but a temporary lease to use software, forever lead this way and that by the corporate overlords. Perhaps it's already too late...
--
Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
http://ComposersofSibelius.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Matthew Hackett - 12 Apr 01:28AM
Hi - just one simple question if I may!

I'm on 6.2 and have no intention of upgrading to anything else any time soon.

Will I be able to just carry on using 6.2 to my hearts content or does this subscription stuff affect me?

Thanks

--
Matt

Sib6.2 - KontaktPlayer2/Garritan Concert & Marching Band - Windows 7 - Intel Core i7 860 - 2.8Ghz - 8gb memory - AVerMedia H789 PCI-E Hybrid DVB-T

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Dave Budde - 12 Apr 01:48AM
Hmmm... Avid just announced that Media Composer First will be free. Will Sibelius First be free later this year also?

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/faq/Media-Composer-First-FAQ


--

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Apr 07:35AM
Sam@Sib says: The renewal price on a perpetual license is the $89/£70.

I'm confused. According to my currency converter 89 bucks = a little under 61 quid.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jesper Elén - 12 Apr 08:32AM
But if you don't renew you have to buy a new license for 665€ if you don't want a subscription. So if you forget to pay after the year expired or don't have the cash or what not then too bad for you. And as Laurence said, you pay but have no idea if there will be any new features you really wan't or need. Pro Tools 12 was just released with almost no new features from Pro Tools 11. Slightly new i/o setup and that's it.
If Avid started to actually fix their software and add what people are requesting at Ideascale then people would buy the new versions, but since they don't of course people hesitate to buy expensive updates. So without any significant new features they wan't to force us to update anyway. Would be better if they actually made updates that we wan't to buy. But how could they, seems like not many employees left that do actual work. Lots of management people though and executive bonuses are expensive.
Every time Avid do anything they upset people.

Jesper


--
MacBook Pro, 8GB, OS 10.9.4,
Sibelius 7.5.1, Wallander Instruments Brass & Woodwind 2.3.7,
Wallander Instruments NotePerformer 1.4.2,
EZDrummer 2.0.2 + Jazz EZX 1.5.1, Pianoteq Pro 5.1.4, Acoustic Samples The Upright

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Robin Walker - 12 Apr 09:01AM
> Sam@Sib says: The renewal price on a perpetual license is the $89/£70.
>
> I'm confused. According to my currency converter 89 bucks = a little under 61 quid.

The UK price includes VAT at 20%, the US price does not include taxes.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 10:54AM

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=366236

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 Apr 11:08AM
Thanx, Robin, but still baffled why a *perpetual* licence would attract a renewal fee. Have I missed something else?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Robin Walker - 12 Apr 11:20AM (edited 12 Apr 11:40AM)
> still baffled why a *perpetual* licence would attract a renewal fee. Have I missed something else?

I suggest you read the full article at:
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/next-sibelius-release/
and the official announcement at:
https://www.avid.com/US/products/Sibelius
and the official blog entry at:
http://www.avidblogs.com/access-sibelius-in-more-ways-than-ever/

Based on what I read there, for the annual renewal fee you get:

- updates/upgrades as and when they appear without further payment;
- troubleshooting support (unlimited incidents online, and up to one phone call incident per month)

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by headphonomenon - 12 Apr 12:08PM
great, Avid is bringing their stupid subscription idea to Sibelius now!
I already stopped using Pro Tools because of this.

If someone could explain to me how this helps users, I am all ears!
So I get updates. Wow! How many years did I use v7 - then just a $49 upgrade to 7.5 (which, incidentally didn't really add any useful features or fixes. Just had to upgrade to open files from other users). So that would have cost me like $200 as a subscriber?
Uh, ok, sounds reasonable.

I want to see that they are pushing out a steady stream of fixes - not just new broken 'features' during the subscription time. Somehow I doubt it given Avid's track record of 'listening' to users!

I'm going to charge clients an extra 15% on any job that requires me to use some subscription file format - because you know files created with the new version won't open in the current version.

Hope at least the shareholders (both of them) are happy. No one else seems to be.


Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 12:15PM (edited 12 Apr 12:19PM)
They're offering monthly rental with no up-front cost. Jump in and out all you like, but any month you don't pay - no Sibelius.

Or you can buy the program as before (anyone reading this presumably has done this already) and sign up for the "perpetual" maintenance deal. As long as you stay aboard, you get any updates that may be released. You can't hop on and off. If your subscription expires, no more updates, ever. But, unlike monthly subscribers who stop paying, you DO get to keep the current version.

So what we're losing is the choice of looking at an update and deciding to skip it, while still retaining "existing user" pricing on the NEXT update, should it prove more attractive.

If we could look back on a few years of regular, value-filled updates from Avid, this would be an easier decision. I believe existing users don't have to decide immediately. This gives Avid an opportunity to demonstrate just how this new system of frequent maintenance upgrades plus regular new features will work. I expect there will be quite a few releases before we're forced to jump one way or another, so we can be confident that Sibelius development is once again up to speed?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 01:01PM (edited 12 Apr 01:04PM)
For once, discussion on the Facebook group Sibelius Software Forum is challenging this one for informed comment :-)

It's confirmed that existing users have a year to decide whether to sign up (was the Pro-Tools subscription system phased in in the same way?) and that Avid realise their performance in establishing a "rhythm" of Sibelius updates over that year will be of great interest.

All we can do now is sit back and watch. There is no current option of decamping to Steinberg, or information on what their new notation program's pricing model will be. Maybe there will be in a year's time. I'm sure Steinberg are well aware of the opportunity that has been presented to them. Maybe Avid will demonstrate previously-unsuspected strategic skills! We live in interesting times.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 01:56PM (edited 12 Apr 02:02PM)
From a discussion on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/273416029350124/

Joe Pearson Hi xxxx. After we release the new subscription models, existing users will get up to a year to decide whether it's something they want to get on board with (for $89).

Here's an example:...See More
----
xxxx But getting a new perpetual license will cost $699 if I miss the grace period?
---
Joe Pearson Yes. If you miss the grace period then your next best option is the yearly or monthly subscription.

Thanks Bob

PS Pls see attachment--one of the comments to this was from me:

Bob Morabito Sickening...part of AVIDS continuing policy of making mistakes, and alienating customers....here we go again...
12 mins · Like · 1

That one "like" was from Joe Pearson..go figure..

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
Attachment Screen Shot 2015-04-12 at 10.01.42 AM.png (500K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 02:36PM
> Bob Morabito Sickening...part of AVIDS continuing policy of making mistakes, and alienating customers....here we go again...
> 12 mins · Like · 1
>
> That one "like" was from Joe Pearson..go figure..

He appears to have a sense of humour. Good. He'll need to for the next few weeks... :-)

One positive point. It's been confirmed that "up to a year" isn't a cheat like "save up to 25%". It means a full 12 months from the release date of the next version. That gives Avid a fair time to demonstrate, by delivering the promised stream of maintenance updates and new features, that Sibelius development is up to speed again - before we have to decide whether to "pay our dues".

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 02:48PM
>He appears to have a sense of humour. Good. He'll need to for the next few weeks... :-)

Well yes to needing it, but I didnt take it as a sense of humor..I took it that HE dont like what AVIDS doing either..who knows;)

And that full 12 months from the release date should hopefully put Steinbergs release of its product right into that time frame, so it might be wise to wait.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 03:11PM
> >He appears to have a sense of humour. Good. He'll need to for the next few weeks... :-)
>
> Well yes to needing it, but I didnt take it as a sense of humor..I took it that HE dont like what AVIDS doing either..who knows;)


Or he just clicks "Like" to acknowledge he's seen the post.

(But see my further conversation with him. You're proving my point perfectly :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 03:43PM
> > >He appears to have a sense of humour. Good. He'll need to for the next few weeks... :-)
> >
> > Well yes to needing it, but I didnt take it as a sense of humor..I took it that HE dont like what AVIDS doing either..who knows;)
>
>
> Or he just clicks "Like" to acknowledge he's seen the post.

Well I still take it as stated.
>
> (But see my further conversation with him. You're proving my point perfectly :-)

Im lost as to what your referring to, and what you possibly think Im proving..and having seen this kind of stuff before, its neither here nor there-we'll let it go.

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 04:04PM

> > (But see my further conversation with him. You're proving my point perfectly :-)
>
> Im lost as to what your referring to, and what you possibly think Im proving..and having seen this kind of stuff before, its neither here nor there-we'll let it go.


It's not like you to give up so easily on a bit of research, Bobby-baby! Here's the exchange where I prophesied what you so beautifully fulfilled.
Attachment Capture.JPG.jpg (69K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 04:27PM
>
> > > (But see my further conversation with him. You're proving my point perfectly :-)
> >
> > Im lost as to what your referring to, and what you possibly think Im proving..and having seen this kind of stuff before, its neither here nor there-we'll let it go.
>
>
> It's not like you to give up so easily on a bit of research, Bobby-baby! Here's the exchange where I prophesied what you so beautifully fulfilled.


Easy, Laurence with the "Bobby baby"stuff..ok? Thanks.

And as I said Ive been here before--

Your prophesies are again the same whiff of stuff you did back with Save Sibelius..prancing excitedly back and forth, stating the obvious, siding with whoever you respond to, or sense has the momentum, trying to monopolize conversations on it....and trying to make yourself seem like the ONLY one who really knows whats going on.

Sorry but your not..theres a forum here and other places full of intelligent people, who can decide, and speak for for themselves, while you "prophesize".

Again, sorry, but its not for me--its only very obvious,simple common sense what your saying--that people are going to take AVID at their word, and hold them to it-- and your desire to make it anything else is unfortunate..and as I say Ive been here before, and once is more than enough.

Thanks and njoy your day

Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 04:36PM
There's still no point in over-analyzing press releases. What are you going to do? Sue?

(I wasn't calling you "Sue", BTW. Not this time.)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 04:49PM (edited 12 Apr 04:53PM)
> There's still no point in over-analyzing press releases. What are you going to do? Sue?


No one over analyzed ANYTHING except for you Laurence..simply taking AVID at its word, which is all we can do.

and who mentioned anything about sueing?

(Only you.)
>
> (I wasn't calling you "Sue", BTW. Not this time.)

Laurence--second mention of this..not cool, or funny or appreciated..maybe relax a little as you really are coming on way too strong and frequent about this announcement from Avid, here and other places..

Thanks Bob


PS Back to the discussion!

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 06:32AM
> He appears to have a sense of humour. Good. He'll need to for the next few weeks... :-)

I try.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 12 Apr 02:44PM
One wild card here is the term "support" - sounds good, but from the number of horror stories over the past few years about how difficult it is for some to get support - for which they had paid - this may be a slippery area.

The other issue is that this is coming from Avid. If the Finn brothers had introduced such a plan, we might have been wary, but my sense is that we would have taken it in stride: after all, new versions were rich with improvements, and generally worth it. We have no such faith in Avid. One would hope that this new plan would generate an even cash flow to allow more development, and that everyone would benefit. But Avid has shown that many times that folks have a reason to be wary. I hope - for everyone's sake - this turns out well. But then I ten see the glass as half full. What fills it is another matter...

--
Ron Pearl
7.1.2
iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
http://www.ronaldmpearl.com/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 03:24PM
It's usually prudent to never ever put all your eggs into one basket,so those of you that have not already done so should look into getting the crossgrade offer from Finale (Make Music).

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 03:31PM
> It's usually prudent to never ever put all your eggs into one basket,so those of you that have not already done so should look into getting the crossgrade offer from Finale (Make Music).
>

Why? Even if Avid vaporised tomorrow, your copy of Sibelius won't suddenly stop working, and all your scores will still be Sib files. This isn't survivalism, stockpiling software in case of future catastrophe! If the time does come to move from Sibelius, there'll be plenty of time to consider options. And by then there may be a new player in the game.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 03:35PM
Is your argument than to not become familiar with other notation programs?

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Francesco - 12 Apr 03:44PM
To reinforce Matthew Hackett post (12 Apr 01:28)

"I'm on 6.2 and have no intention of upgrading to anything else any time soon".

Do we'll have problems with these licensing options?

Please, we need an answer!

--
Francesco
---
Sib6.2, Win7 Pro SP1, Intel DualCore E6700@3.2 GHz, 6GB Ram, Steinberg UR22
Grandorgue, Pianoteq, GPO4, JABB3, CoMB2, GCPO, NotePerformer, XCE, Kontakt 5, Reaper, Photoscore Ultimate 6

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 04:15PM
> "I'm on 6.2 and have no intention of upgrading to anything else any time soon".
>
> Do we'll have problems with these licensing options?
>
> Please, we need an answer!

I think the information was clear. You can stay as you are for ever, or until your present computer falls to bits and you have to replace it with something that won't run Sibelius 6.2. But, at that point, you'll have no option of a cheap "existing user" upgrade to a current version.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 04:09PM
> Is your argument than to not become familiar with other notation programs?

If you didn't feel the need to before yesterday's announcement, I don't think the urgency has increased today. The sky may fall in just over a year (though even then, your Sibelius won't suddenly stop working).

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 05:01PM
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 12 Apr 02:44PM

>One wild card here is the term "support" - sounds good, but from the number of horror stories over the past few years about how difficult it is for some to get support - for which they had paid - this may be a slippery area.

And a HUGE chunk of "support" is provided for here, by many generous users.

>The other issue is that this is coming from Avid. .. But Avid has shown that many times that folks have a reason to be wary. I hope - for everyone's sake - this turns out well. But then I ten see the glass as half full. What fills it is another matter...
>

Well said..exercising caution in any business transaction is wise, especially when there have been problems in the past.

Thanks Bob

PS I see some questions being answered by users, that seem would be better off answered by Avid, so that you know you;re getting complete and correct info.

For one, I wouldnt base my decisions on anything else, and possibly have problems down the road.



--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 05:19PM
> PS I see some questions being answered by users, that seem would be better off answered by Avid, so that you know you;re getting complete and correct info.


The Avid presence here appears to be taking a well-earned break. But some of the Facebook groups, notably Music Engraving Tips and Sibelius Software Forum still seem "live".

Anything stated here as fact probably came from an Avid "horse's mouth" over there.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 05:29PM
Be so kind as to give links to those sites Laurence.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 05:43PM
> Be so kind as to give links to those sites Laurence.

They're Facebook groups. Log on to your Facebook account, type the group name into the search box. If you don't HAVE a Facebook account, I don't think you get access.

Do these links do anything for you?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398324947133060/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/273416029350124/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 05:54PM
Thank you Laurence. Courtesies like this just make it easier for others to follow along.
Thanks again.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 12 Apr 05:28PM

> And a HUGE chunk of "support" is provided for here, by many generous users.

My point exactly! Now, if this annual fee went to some kind of stipend to Robin, Laurence, you, Wim, and others, I'd feel better about paying!


--
Ron Pearl
7.1.2
iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
http://www.ronaldmpearl.com/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 06:04PM
>
> > And a HUGE chunk of "support" is provided for here, by many generous users.
>
> My point exactly! Now, if this annual fee went to some kind of stipend to Robin, Laurence, you, Wim, and others, I'd feel better about paying!

What a wonderful idea! Would you like my PayPal identity? :-)

I was just thinking that if another Campaign ever revs up, an effective way to cripple Sibelius would be for a handful of people to leave this forum :-)

Actually, it works out OK. I can't speak for the other regulars, but, apart from the fact that I enjoy problem-solving, I'm not in the slightest embarrassed by music and music/computer stuff being what I do for a living. No-one could accuse me of touting for business here - but sometimes helping someone on one of the groups leads to paid work. I'm happy!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 12 Apr 06:06PM
>
> > And a HUGE chunk of "support" is provided for here, by many generous users.
>
> My point exactly! Now, if this annual fee went to some kind of stipend to Robin, Laurence, you, Wim, and others, I'd feel better about paying!
>

Thanks for your kind words--and please include yourself also Ron..you also do your fair share of answering here!

Thanks Bob
>
> --
> Ron Pearl
> 7.1.2
> iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
> http://www.ronaldmpearl.com/


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Mike Lyons - 12 Apr 05:13PM
Well, chaps. I'll try to stay with you for as long as I can, but the ship is definitely going down.

I do not intend to ever use "the cloud" (just a way of making government surveillance easier IMHO) and, as a pensioner, I certainly can't justify this kind of constant drain on my resources, so I eagerly await the arrival of Steinberg's offering while hoping the dregs of my pension pot don't run out and my 5 yr old laptop doesn't die in the meantime.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but the Finns have served us a bitter cup of gall indeed!
--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 05:26PM
> Well, chaps. I'll try to stay with you for as long as I can, but the ship is definitely going down.
>
> I do not intend to ever use "the cloud" (just a way of making government surveillance easier IMHO) and, as a pensioner, I certainly can't justify this kind of constant drain on my resources, so I eagerly await the arrival of Steinberg's offering while hoping the dregs of my pension pot don't run out and my 5 yr old laptop doesn't die in the meantime.
>
> I'm sorry to have to say this, but the Finns have served us a bitter cup of gall indeed!

On a point of information: Sibelius is not becoming a "cloud" application. Certain online options are coming for distributing and sharing scores.

And on a point of conjecture: Maybe the Steinberg program's pricing model will suit you better. Maybe it will be very similar to the new Sibelius one.

And on a point of opinion: Yes, I agree. The world's going to hell in a handbasket.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 12 Apr 06:24PM
I upgraded to 7.5 with a heavy heart; it offered nothing of any consequence over 7 and the only reason I did so was as insurance against obsolescence. It gives me no pleasure to say this but I find the feature list for 8 a total shocker. Two major releases down the line and no substantive notation or engraving additions or improvements. Is Avid even aware what notation software is? Certainly it has now made Sibelius an idiotic choice for me. I had already set myself against buying 8 some time ago and said so on this forum, for which I got it in the neck. Well I say it again: I will not be buying this upgrade.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Marcos dos Santos - 12 Apr 08:39PM
Steinberg did a survey with Cubase users asking about renting licenses (among other things). The reception was very bad. Steinberg said that they will not change license terms because of that.

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=72219&hilit=renting&start=25#p420517

--
Marcos

Sibelius 7.1.3/7.5, Sibelius First 7.1.3
win 7 Ultimate SP1 64bits, M-Audio Fast Track Pro.
Desktop: i7(950) 3.06Ghz 8GB Ram,
Laptop: i7 3630QM 2.4Ghz 16GB Ram

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 09:08PM
AVID=BORG......"Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated."

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jeff Hale - 12 Apr 09:26PM
The thing I don't get is this: Why, unless you use a Surface Pro, would you pay to subscribe a day earlier than 364 days after the next release is official? Since you're not getting any actual improvements in that time, you'd be paying for a year of nothing. If they do come up with some actual new features, you could subscribe before the grace period runs out without missing anything and essentially save a year's subscription price.

--
windows 7 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ronald Pearl - 12 Apr 09:30PM
> The thing I don't get is this: Why, unless you use a Surface Pro, would you pay to subscribe a day earlier than 364 days after the next release is official? Since you're not getting any actual improvements in that time, you'd be paying for a year of nothing. If they do come up with some actual new features, you could subscribe before the grace period runs out without missing anything and essentially save a year's subscription price.
>
> --
> windows 7 Professional, Sibelius 7.1.3

Wouldn't you get a year of support? For what that is worth...
--
Ron Pearl
7.1.2
iMac, 10.7.5, 2.5 GHz i5, 4G ram
http://www.ronaldmpearl.com/

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 09:32PM
You get more support and solutions on the Forum.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 09:56PM
> The thing I don't get is this: Why, unless you use a Surface Pro, would you pay to subscribe a day earlier than 364 days after the next release is official? Since you're not getting any actual improvements in that time, you'd be paying for a year of nothing. If they do come up with some actual new features, you could subscribe before the grace period runs out without missing anything and essentially save a year's subscription price.


Absolutely. Avid have a year from the next release to demonstrate that Sibelius development is on track before we existing owners need to make a decision. This has been explicitly confirmed.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 Apr 09:48PM (edited 12 Apr 10:03PM)
> Steinberg did a survey with Cubase users asking about renting licenses (among other things). The reception was very bad. Steinberg said that they will not change license terms because of that.
>
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=72219&hilit=renting&start=25#p420517
>

Phew! That's alright then!

I'm feeling very optimistic at the moment. There are elections here in the UK next month. Whover gets in, you wouldn't believe the wonderful things that are going to happen! After all, they've PROMISED :-)

And you know what? We're digging trenches and consolidating positions all based on a marketing release. One degree more reliable than an election promise. There's only a beta version ready for MusikMesse. Avid may get a(nother) new chief tomorrow. Everything may change...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 12 Apr 10:09PM
I do love promises, whether between countries, from politician or even marriage vows. They are always kept.

;-)

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Marcos dos Santos - 12 Apr 10:44PM
Laurence and Ralph, I will never break my promises (my secret is: never make a promise!)

:)

--
Marcos

Sibelius 7.1.3/7.5, Sibelius First 7.1.3
win 7 Ultimate SP1 64bits, M-Audio Fast Track Pro.
Desktop: i7(950) 3.06Ghz 8GB Ram,
Laptop: i7 3630QM 2.4Ghz 16GB Ram

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 13 Apr 01:36AM
>> Steinberg did a survey with Cubase users asking about renting licenses (among other things). The reception was very bad. Steinberg said that they will not change license terms because of that.
>
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=72219&hilit=renting&start=25#p420517
>
> --
> Marcos

Thanks so much for this Marcos--and hey, they ACTUALLY asked their users..WOW!!!

(hint to AVID:)

This totally firms up something I had posted from Daniel, concerning this.

And it answers a very key question, to help in making a decision about possibly moving to Steinberg, in light of AVIDS actions here.

Thanks again.

Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 13 Apr 02:02AM
Many of us will be purchasing the new Steinberg Notation Program when it arrives. It will be ultimately linked in with Steinbergs DAW. But.......,
If it proves to be the way into the future for us Sibelius will become a distant memory used most exclusively for those who work and write for Hollywood.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter Roos - 13 Apr 02:49AM
Guys, guys, guys, let's not get overexcited and call each other names.

This is a very complicated situation, and we don't know all the details yet.

On May 12, 2015, there will be the next annual shareholders meeting of Avid, and I plan to call in, and ask the CEO Louis Hernandez and the CFO some pertinent questions, if they let me.

I did that a couple of years ago, royally pissed off Greenfield or Greenberg or whatever his name was. The big investors pooh poohed me, snickered at my concerns about moving software support to the Ukraine.

Little did they know about the events in Russia and Ukraine which had yet to unfold. Hah. Those financial big wigs, they think they know everything, but trust me, they can be real idiots.

In the meantime, don't take it out on each other, and don't take it out on Joe Pearson or Sam Butler. I mean, they're the last Sibelius guys from the old team still standing, trying to hold together a legacy. They are really in a tight spot.

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 06:31AM (edited 13 Apr 06:34AM)
Thanks Peter,

Very sensible and spot on. There is an absolute ton of work for Sam and I to do, and it may surprise you all to know that despite being a member of the old team, and having been through some really low points, I'm both pro Avid _and_ pro Sibelius. I personally feel more support for and recognition of Sibelius than I have ever done in my 7 or 8 years (or whatever it is now) here.

I'm happy to answer whatever questions and concerns people might have, and I'll try to be as candid as possible too as I know how badly marketing-speak can translate when people have genuine worries.

Sam and I are both off to the Ukraine today and we'll be in Messe as mentioned this week with our beta version of Sibelius. I'll try and keep up with the thread as much as I can. My e-mail address is below if anyone wants to get in touch directly too.

I hope you get a positive result from your planned executive grilling too!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 13 Apr 08:45AM
I do hope it's understood that criticisms I've made aren't directed at Sam or Joe. Far from it.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 13 Apr 09:00AM
Nice one Peter, and a sensible offer from you Joe. We nevertheless have all been bitterly disappointed in the past. It seems to be quite evident that Avid have also been disappointed in the amount of development held against the $$$$$$$$ return. You`d
better come back economy class Joe - niet?
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 04:12PM
Da. Premium economy is but a distant dream.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 13 Apr 05:10PM
I think the point was missed--or avoided--on this post and reply.
(both included in their entirety below, as they're buried in the middle of this long thread somewhere)

Davids EXCELLENT post below brings up the really important point that the "Sib veterans are basically the Sibelius Sales Team...the newbies purchase it because the old school speaks highly of the product AND the company, it's that simple."

IOW the longtime users who really dont like this subscription plan forced on them (and many STILL feeling the sting of what was done to Daniel et al) are:

1)NOT going to recommend Sib to the new guys
2)are going to recommend Finale or other programs
3)and might also (probably) ditch Sib for Steinberg


and there goes Sibs word of mouth sales, along with its sales team... probably its best salesperson--its longtime users.

US.

And this is as the post so aptly puts is " well, one huge risk."

Avids actions in the past has spawned what will probably be its biggest rival, Steinberg; and they also lost the support and full efforts of Bob Z with his EXCELLENT plugins..many users left, and some stayed, really not happy with what was done.

And they lost the respect of many musicians, and business people throughout the world..

and their stock plummeted to less that 5 bucks...DOJ SEC investigations, civil suits

Add the unhappy Pro Tools users...

And now this..etc etc

WHEN does it stop Avid?

You actually seem hell bent on destroying yourself..


Thanks Bob

===========================================

Posted by David - 13 Apr 02:59PM

>
> Ultimately that's going to be a decision that you as a user makes. I must say it's been personally frustrating for me (and indeed all of us) that we haven't been able to get more notational improvements in for this version, since we've been tied up developing Sibelius | Cloud Publishing. I can say that this certainly won't always continue to be the case in the future - Sibelius is a notation and composition tool, and that's why my efforts in improvement will lie for a while.
>

> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius

Thank you for saying that, I appreciate your candor. It seems to be a Catch-22 for both sides: Avid is saying "Hey longtime users, you gotta get this new upgrade or else your kicked off the "perpetual" upgrade path, but the "upgrade" only affects a small percentage of you with Surface Pro-type needs/workflow. If you don't, you either become a 'renter' or start over and buy the whole thing from scratch". Ouch. That's gonna be a tough sell.

It seems Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans. While that might make sense financially at first glance, they have made one huge miscalculation: the veterans are basically the Sibelius Sales Team! I've "sold" at least 3 full versions, 3 people pondered the "Finale or Sibelius" question and went with Sibelius because I used it, and they valued my work/charts/expertise etc. When that is multiplied by all the longtime users doing the same, well, that's your sales force. The newbies purchase it because the old school speaks highly of the product AND the company, it's that simple. Telling those old school people that they have to get an upgrade they can't really benefit from is, well, one huge risk.

Cakewalk has gone subscription, but they have kept the "old way" pretty much intact as well. One can upgrade at any point, or "rent". That seems reasonable. Avid is basically kicking "version-jumpers" to the curb, and that's a huge risk when the new version apparently doesn't have anything for the vast majority of the customers. Ouch, again.
==========

Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 04:10PM
Hi David,

Existing users will get a year from the day that we release to take advantage of the the $89 upgrade. That means you'll get a year to watch from afar as we unfurl the new model, and you can make up your own mind - so you won't be left out in the cold by not upgrading immediately.

When you say "Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans" - I can see why you might perceive that. I think it's probably the same frustration that I mentioned earlier about not having more notation-specific improvements to offer with this version, but that won't always be the case in the future.

JP

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 13 Apr 05:21PM (edited 13 Apr 05:26PM)
Thank you Bob M. for the post below. I have added only a little to it, and hope you may forgive my additions. Ralph

I think the point was missed--or avoided--on this post and reply.(Note: It was not missed it was AVOIDED)
(both included in their entirety below, as they're buried in the middle of this long thread somewhere)

Davids EXCELLENT post below brings up the really important point that the "Sib veterans are basically the Sibelius Sales Team...the newbies purchase it because the old school speaks highly of the product AND the company, it's that simple."

IOW the longtime users who really don't like this subscription plan forced on them (and many STILL feeling the sting of what was done to Daniel et al) are:

1)NOT going to recommend Sib to the new guys
2)are going to recommend Finale or other programs
3)and might also (probably) ditch Sib for Steinberg

[4) Move sideways to Finale
or Even Support and Help with the development team on MuseScore.]

and there goes Sibs word of mouth sales, along with its sales team... probably its best salesperson--its longtime users.

US.

And this is as the post so aptly puts is " well, one huge risk."

Avids actions in the past has spawned what will probably be its biggest rival, Steinberg; and they also lost the support and full efforts of Bob Z with his EXCELLENT plugins..many users left, and some stayed, really not happy with what was done.

And they lost the respect of many musicians, and business people throughout the world..

and their stock plummeted to less that 5 bucks...DOJ SEC investigations, civil suits

Add the unhappy Pro Tools users...

And now this..etc etc

WHEN does it stop Avid?

You actually seem hell bent on destroying yourself..


Thanks Bob

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 13 Apr 05:29PM
Youre welcome Ralph--and thanks so much for your EXCELLENT additions--much appreciated:)

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Hans Nel - 08 Jun 07:36AM
It amazes me how my fellow Sibelius users threaten Avid by suggesting Finale to new users. Come on guys, we ans Avid is not that stupid. We all know that Finale have not seen a proper bug fix or upgrade in years. Avid is laughing at you.

I am an avid (no pun intended), loyal Sibelius user and I do own Finale as well, but gee guys, threatening with Finale is an empty threat. Rather threat with Steinberg.

--
Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card...64bit OS (Windows 8.1 Pro), Sibelius 7.5.1, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 08 Jun 04:21PM
> It amazes me how my fellow Sibelius users threaten Avid by suggesting Finale to new users. Come on guys, we ans Avid is not that stupid. We all know that Finale have not seen a proper bug fix or upgrade in years. Avid is laughing at you.
>
> I am an avid (no pun intended), loyal Sibelius user and I do own Finale as well, but gee guys, threatening with Finale is an empty threat. Rather threat with Steinberg.
>
I don't agree at all. There are many very loyal Finale users - mostly classical composers, I think - and at least some of them definitely recommend Finale to new users. If Avid is laughing at us over that threat then they underestimate Finale.

Anyway, the threat isn't "Finale"; it's "(almost) anything but Avid".


--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Hans Nel - 08 Jun 07:50AM
Ok, just my 2 cents worth here,

I made peace with subscription based software a year ago. I was really upset that Microsoft turned subscription based regarding MS Office. But, after subscribing, I must admit that I enjoy using office much more. I do get regular updates, there is "OneDrive" and office on the web, I have office on my smartphone, tablet AND I get 5 licences to whom I can share with my friends.

So I, for one is willing to give Avid the benefit of the doubt to see IF they produce. They better start putting their money where their mouth is. As stated before, it is OUR money that keeps them alive and I do recognize that it cost lots of money to develop software so please guys, make it count!

I own a Samsung Ativ PC Pro (Windows) and cannot wait to see how the new Sibelius works on it. I actually purchased this tablet purely to use with Sibelius. Maybe the cloud feature will help my sales in the future.

But hey, if Avid fails me on this one, I WILL ditch this bitch!! As you may have noticed, I'm not loyal to software, I own quite a few.

PS. Oh...I don't work for Avid or Microsoft. Wouldn't mind though.

--
Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card...64bit OS (Windows 8.1 Pro), Sibelius 7.5.1, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 13 Apr 06:09PM
I'm still a bit fuzzy on how this new licensing model will work. Those of us with an existing licensed copy of Sibelius (i.e., everybody on this forum) have a perpetual license, so for us this new model is about access to updates and service. At some point this new model will go into effect - day 1 of year 1. Those of us with a perpetual license will have a year from that date to accept or reject it - to buy an upgrade or not. But even if we wait for 364 days, we are still paying for year 1. Right? And on day 1 of year 2 we owe another $89 if we want to stay with the program. How long will grace period be for year 2? I assume it will be less than a year.

While this first grace period gives us time to think, it doesn't necessarily provide us with much information. We've already been told what is in the first upgrade, and some of us are not inspired by that list. We will have to wait for another upgrade to decide if this new model is worth buying into.

Avid needs to realize that for many of us Sibelius 7.5 is a good, stable, and acceptably functional program. (The Ideascale shows we don't consider it perfect, but it's pretty good.) We could stay with it for quite a while. Under the old pricing model we could stay with 7.5 until a worthwhile improvement comes along. If Sib 8 is not worth it we could wait until Sib 9. But we could get the new version as an upgrade. Under the new model, we have to pay (whether we're getting anything for our money or not) or cease being an active Sibelius customer. It will take a lot more to get us to buy a new full-price license than it would to buy an upgrade. And if we do buy a new full-price license we are stuck with the subscription scheme.

If we opt out of the new scheme, Avid should consider us effectively gone for good.
--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Hans Nel - 08 Jun 07:07AM (edited 08 Jun 06:31PM)
Like hell I will. THAT company (MakeMusic) have not produced worthwhile bug fixes and features IN YEARS. Their software still looks the same as 2005.

I don't like what AVID is doing but I guess we'll wait and see.

I did purchase Notion 5 purely as it boasts a better sound engine. I write music in it ans publish in Sibelius.

Can't wait to see what Steinberg has to offer.

--
Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card...64bit OS (Windows 8.1 Pro), Sibelius 7.5.1, Notion 5, Finale 2011, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Uwe Mahnken - 13 Apr 05:38PM
Hi Sam, what does it mean: "Draw directly on the score using a mouse, trackpad, USB tablet, or Surface Pro 3 Pen." (found on http://www.avid.com/US/products/Sibelius#Features)?
Is it meaning that I can use my Wacom Intuos tablet for drawing into a score?

Uwe

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 13 Apr 05:58PM
Hi Uwe,

Although we haven't tested the new Annotate feature with a Wacom tablet yet, we expect it will work, yes. When drawing annotations, Sibelius can respond to the signals coming from pen or mouse or a finger.

The Surface Pro 3 Pen can draw with up to 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity so the lines you get will be super smooth!

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bill Myers - 13 Apr 08:25PM
Sam & Joe....I don't *think* this question has been asked/answered in the mountain of posts above - apologies if it has - but one feature of all of the past, numbered upgrades was the availability of the excellent updated printed manual. What's the future of that?

--
Sib. 7.5, Digital Perf 8.04,ProTools 10/11,
MacPro 8core 2.8Ghz, 16Gb Ram 4x150GB HDs, OS 10.8.5/10.9.2
MacBookPro,2core 2.16Ghz,2Gb Ram,95Gb HD, OS 10.6.8
loadza libraries, synths, and other stuff...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 13 Apr 08:47PM
I wonder how current Sibelius users will be notified of the change? Many don't read the fora or blogs. And some people delete unsolicited emails from vendors as spam.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Robin Walker - 13 Apr 09:02PM
> I wonder how current Sibelius users will be notified of the change?

How about: the same as at present: Sibelius itself checks for updates. Every 90 days at present.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by DanClark - 13 Apr 10:45PM
It may have already been mentioned, but Avid should look at the "warm" response that Adobe got when they changed to a subscription model.

I started using Adobe PhotoShop and Premiere in the early 2000's (I can't remember exactly when). I.e. a LONG time. Then they changed to the Subscription model and gave me a very cheap price for the first year. I thought I'd give it a try.

And then they jacked it up to $50/month. Bye bye Photoshop and Premiere. Since Lightroom plus Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements met my needs, I switched to them.

Adobe has since made changes to sweeten their subscription deal, but I'm happy with what I'm using now and no longer have any need for the full-blown Adobe tool set. So they lost me permanently as a customer of their big tools.

My message to Avid is that it's difficult to get a customer. Don't do something to drive them off. There are other competing products and companies that will be happy to drag us off into their lair.

Regards,

Dan.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 14 Apr 09:58AM
Not a peep from Daniel, but then he`s committed to another company. Bet he`s rubbing his hands though and pouring himself another glass of something.
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 10:20AM
Daniel has made a brief contribution to the discussion on one of the Facebook groups already mentioned.

There's little there that hasn't been said (repeatedly) here. But come and join in if you like!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 14 Apr 01:20PM
Laurence, which one?

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 14 Apr 01:58PM
Hi Peter--

There may be more but this is the only one Ive seen Daniel on:

Music Engraving Tips

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1398324947133060/

Heres what Daniel had to say, and pls see attachment .

Thanks Bob

----


Charles Gaskell The impression I get is that the new Spreadbury ( or rather Steinberg) offering will be aimed at the high end of the market - those people who are concerned with exactly what the finished score and parts look like. I remember 10 ago that the received w...See More
April 12 at 12:21pm · Edited · Like

Laurence Payne We identify the new Steinberg product with Daniel, but, with all respect, last time I looked he was Product Marketing Manager, not the show runner.
April 12 at 11:55am · Like · 2

Charles Gaskell Two things that happened are that computers got (and keep getting) faster, plus the machine code generated by the compilers of the higher-level languages has become (and continues to be) more efficient. Put these two facts together and there is less r...See More
April 12 at 1:28pm · Like · 2

Daniel Spreadbury I would never say that I'm running the show with our application development at Steinberg, but my role as Product Marketing Manager is essentially exactly the same as my combined role as both product manager and product designer on that other scoring program (whatever happened to that, anyway?). Our application is of course designed collaboratively (with such a talented and musical set of engineers it would be idiotic to dictate to them), but as far as what goes into the application, and the nitty gritty of how you will work with it... that buck stops with me in our new application, just as it did in the old days.
April 12 at 1:58pm · Unlike · 5

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
Attachment Screen Shot 2015-04-14 at 9.53.57 AM.png (231K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 02:21PM (edited 14 Apr 02:28PM)
Yup, that's the one. Though it's been cut a bit short in that excerpt. Come on over and join the chat. It's all quite good-natured, now most people have got the inital anti-Avid rant out of their systems.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 14 Apr 02:39PM
Thanks Bob. Got to it in the end. There have been some interesting reactions!
--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.5; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.10.3

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 14 Apr 02:45PM
Yes Laurence I've now seen it on the site itself thanks, and some of the many contributions.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 14 Apr 03:40PM
Youre welcome Peter--and yes there have!

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 14 Apr 04:52PM
> An overview of the new features in Sibelius can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DozJwBAm2lo

I'm a bit confused by this video. Most of the musicians shown are songwriters. Does this mean (as I've started to suspect since the switch to the ribbon) that Avid is trying to target Sibelius to pop music writers? Are pop music writers really needing all the power of Sibelius?

Paolo

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 05:18PM
It also gives the distinct impression that it's best suited to black musicians. I wouldn't over-think it, if I were you :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bill Myers - 14 Apr 08:05PM
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 17:18
> It also gives the distinct impression that it's best suited to black musicians.

Laurence, I'm not sure if your comment was intended to come off as whimsical, satirical or what.
But, in the end, it just came off as....ignorant...


--
Sib. 7.5, Digital Perf 8.04,ProTools 10/11,
MacPro 8core 2.8Ghz, 16Gb Ram 4x150GB HDs, OS 10.8.5/10.9.2
MacBookPro,2core 2.16Ghz,2Gb Ram,95Gb HD, OS 10.6.8
loadza libraries, synths, and other stuff...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 14 Apr 08:48PM
> Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 17:18
> > It also gives the distinct impression that it's best suited to black musicians.
>
> Laurence, I'm not sure if your comment was intended to come off as whimsical, satirical or what.
> But, in the end, it just came off as....ignorant...
>
>
It honestly didnt sit right with me either, FWIW...

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Paolo Tramannoni - 14 Apr 09:04PM
Laurence, if you think that my comment was "elitist" or "racist" against musicians out of the classical music circle, it was not meant to imply a judgement on a particular kind of music. I just can't understand how "pop" musicians could use Sibelius for. It doesn't seems to be the right tool for that kind of work.

When I want to write a song in a more contemporary/mainstream style, I usually refer to Logic or ProTools as the tool of choice. Something allowing for direct control of synthesizers and samplers, and allowing easy overdubbing and comping, more than writing on staves and generating separate parts.

Maybe Avid is thinking music is going in a different direction? Or, is there just some confusion in the marketing department?

Paolo

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 09:25PM
> Laurence, if you think that my comment was "elitist" or "racist" against musicians out of the classical music circle, it was not meant to imply a judgement on a particular kind of music. I just can't understand how "pop" musicians could use Sibelius for. It doesn't seems to be the right tool for that kind of work.
>

No, of course I wasn't accusing you of anything!

Join us in the Facebook discussions if you like, and get some context on our amusement at the marketing video. But certainly don't waste your time over-analysing it. That advice comes from an Avid voice as well as mine.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 14 Apr 05:46PM (edited 14 Apr 05:47PM)
> Daniel has made a brief contribution to the discussion on one of the Facebook groups already mentioned.
>
> There's little there that hasn't been said (repeatedly) here. But come and join in if you like!

I`m not on Facebook Laurence.
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 14 Apr 05:59PM
I try not to be too egotistic (and often fail), Tony, but I think Laurence was address me with that comment and I appreciated the invitation too.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob K - 14 Apr 06:31PM
Just want to add my $0.02 worth, in case Avid is listening.

I'm a pro user of Sibelius since 2002 (pianist, composer, arranger, teacher).

I don't like the 'perpetual license' model. To me the name is misnomer with tinges of Orwellian doublespeak. It's more accurately described as a sort of a hybrid license + subscription.

The requirement that you revert to a subscription or pay full price for a new 'perpetual' license if you don't renew every year is absurd and an insult to long-time customers.

Maybe I'd feel a little different if Avid hadn't fired the development team (around the same time their top management were making absurd amounts of money while the stock value plunged), and if they'd been fixing bugs and improving basic engraving features since then.

I recall reading - maybe at Sibelius blog - that the last update or two were completed (or mostly so) by the previous team. So the new team is largely unproven, and the newly-announced features are of no interest to me.

I hope the Steinberg application arrives soon and isn't a subscription app. If it's good, and if converting Sibelius files works reasonably well, then I'll switch, and be glad to no longer do business with Avid.


--
Bob K
Sibelius 7.51, Mac Pro 8-Core 2.26 GHz 'Nehalem', 16 GB RAM, OS 10.9.4

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 14 Apr 08:52PM (edited 14 Apr 08:54PM)
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bill Myers - 14 Apr 08:05PM
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 17:18
> It also gives the distinct impression that it's best suited to black musicians.

Laurence, I'm not sure if your comment was intended to come off as whimsical, satirical or what.
But, in the end, it just came off as....ignorant...


Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 14 Apr 08:48PM
> Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 17:18
> > It also gives the distinct impression that it's best suited to black musicians.
>
> Laurence, I'm not sure if your comment was intended to come off as whimsical, satirical or what.
> But, in the end, it just came off as....ignorant...
>
>

It honestly didnt sit right with me either, FWIW...

Thanks Bob

(EDIT..sorry for double posting.it got lost up above)

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 15 Apr 04:46AM
> Just want to add my $0.02 worth, in case Avid is listening.
>
> I'm a pro user of Sibelius since 2002 (pianist, composer, arranger, teacher).
>
> I don't like the 'perpetual license' model. To me the name is misnomer with tinges of Orwellian doublespeak. It's more accurately described as a sort of a hybrid license + subscription.
>
> The requirement that you revert to a subscription or pay full price for a new 'perpetual' license if you don't renew every year is absurd and an insult to long-time customers.
>
> Maybe I'd feel a little different if Avid hadn't fired the development team (around the same time their top management were making absurd amounts of money while the stock value plunged), and if they'd been fixing bugs and improving basic engraving features since then.
>
> I recall reading - maybe at Sibelius blog - that the last update or two were completed (or mostly so) by the previous team. So the new team is largely unproven, and the newly-announced features are of no interest to me.
>
> I hope the Steinberg application arrives soon and isn't a subscription app. If it's good, and if converting Sibelius files works reasonably well, then I'll switch, and be glad to no longer do business with Avid.
>
>
> --
> Bob K
> Sibelius 7.51, Mac Pro 8-Core 2.26 GHz 'Nehalem', 16 GB RAM, OS 10.9.4


Bob, I agree about the subscription part. Trying to find a bright side: The pressure is now on Sibelius to deliver a killer upgrade in about 364 days after the new launch. :) If not, we all go our separate ways. They know this, we know this.

I like Sibelius, I have no desire to switch to another program after spending years using it.... but I'm not an idiot and I'm not shelling out $700 bucks if I miss a payment. And I won't go rent-to-not-own. Therefore, Sibelius will deliver a wondrous product full of magic and unicorns, one with linked parts, fixed glissandi lines that actually line up, glissandos that don't sound like broken record players, the whole shebang. If they do that, we can all send in our 100 bucks a year, we'll make notes on our calenders so we don't miss payments, and the world will be restored to peace and harmony. :)

--
7.5.1, Windows 7

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Neil Sands - 15 Apr 08:35AM
Linked parts? Is that not already in Sibelius? Is that not Finale's word for their version of a feature that was already in Sibelius called Dynamic Parts (put there by James Larcombe, now of Steinberg)?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 14 Apr 08:53PM
> I try not to be too egotistic (and often fail), Tony, but I think Laurence was address me with that comment and I appreciated the invitation too.
>
> --
> Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user


Now, now children! You're BOTH invited, OK? Not that an invitation is needed.

The Orchestration group has established itself as a useful resource. And a few other Sibelius/notation/music theory groups are developing nicely. Anyone who previously wrote Facebook off as a time-waster should take another look.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 15 Apr 06:44AM
Hi David,

> I like Sibelius, I have no desire to switch to another program after spending years using it.... but I'm not an idiot and I'm not shelling out $700 bucks if I miss a payment. And I won't go rent-to-not-own. Therefore, Sibelius will deliver a wondrous product full of magic and unicorns, one with linked parts, fixed glissandi lines that actually line up, glissandos that don't sound like broken record players, the whole shebang. If they do that, we can all send in our 100 bucks a year, we'll make notes on our calenders so we don't miss payments, and the world will be restored to peace and harmony. :)

That's exactly the plan. Over the next year (and beyond) we're planning on upgrades that have both important notation features and technical enhancements that keep Sibelius at the fore. We will have mechanisms to allow you to set up auto-renewal so you'll never miss the upgrade plan, or we'll be sending emails to remind you to renew online or through your preferred reseller.

I've asked Joe to spec out the unicorns for you ;)

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 15 Apr 10:11AM (edited 15 Apr 10:18AM)
>Over the next year (and beyond) we're planning on upgrades that have both important notation features and technical enhancements that keep Sibelius at the fore. We will have mechanisms to allow you to set up auto-renewal so you'll never miss the upgrade plan, or we'll be sending emails to remind you to renew online or through your preferred reseller.
>
> I've asked Joe to spec out the unicorns for you ;)
>
> Sam
>
> --
> Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius


So there is a year's worth of value-filled updates in the pipeline? Work will, of course, have started on these at least a year ago, and they'll be ready for the first round of testing pretty soon?

Forgive my scepticism, but Avid's credibility is pretty low after the results of the last few years. Maybe you could take on some beta testers and relax the non-disclosure agreement a little to allow them to at least reveal "Yes, good stuff is coming!" (And if you chose the right people - I well remember from my teaching days, the best way to deal with a trouble-maker was often to make them a prefect :-)

While you're here, Sam, can you clarify one thing? Suppose the next update arrives tomorrow, along with the new pricing model. Existing Sibelius owners can pay up straight away, start their "perpetual" subscription and get the update. Or wait a year before deciding - but NOT, of course, get any updates in the meantime. Is that right? And if we wait a year before paying, what year's updates are we buying?

Nice day, isn't it? :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 15 Apr 12:31PM
> Hi David,
>
> > I like Sibelius, I have no desire to switch to another program after spending years using it.... but I'm not an idiot and I'm not shelling out $700 bucks if I miss a payment. And I won't go rent-to-not-own. Therefore, Sibelius will deliver a wondrous product full of magic and unicorns, one with linked parts, fixed glissandi lines that actually line up, glissandos that don't sound like broken record players, the whole shebang. If they do that, we can all send in our 100 bucks a year, we'll make notes on our calenders so we don't miss payments, and the world will be restored to peace and harmony. :)
>
> That's exactly the plan. Over the next year (and beyond) we're planning on upgrades that have both important notation features and technical enhancements that keep Sibelius at the fore. We will have mechanisms to allow you to set up auto-renewal so you'll never miss the upgrade plan, or we'll be sending emails to remind you to renew online or through your preferred reseller.
>
> I've asked Joe to spec out the unicorns for you ;)
>
> Sam
>
> --


Hi Sam, I'm pretty optimistic about it. Subscription or not, I'm glad that Sibelius is moving forward, as we were all concerned a few years back when things got a bit shaky. I use it every day and I'm way to set in my ways to change, so I'm gonna sit back and wait for some new features!
--
7.5.1, Windows 7

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Jones - 19 Apr 04:28PM

> That's exactly the plan. Over the next year (and beyond) we're planning on upgrades that have both important notation features and technical enhancements that keep Sibelius at the fore.
>
> Sam
>

Terrific. Over the next year, and beyond, I'm planning to write 9 Symphonies that will knock Beethoven off his pedastal. Can't tell you what the riffs are for commercial reasons, you understand. But they will all be performed regualrly at the Proms. I'm really working hard thinking about it - even written some notes down somewhere, I promise. I'll soon be accepting advance contributions of ticket money, and as long as you keep 'em coming. I'll get those symphonies finished before I die, probably.

Sorry AVID, but there is a big credibility gap, and you need to close it before you you frisk us for more cash. If you do close it, then the cash is yours, not the other way round.



--
Sib 6.2 upgrade build 88, Sibelius Player Essentials, Sibelius Sounds Gold, Kontakt Player available. Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Audio mode. Vista SP2, ASUS P5B-VM motherboard, 3GB RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600, 1GB DDR2, 250GB SATA.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 15 Apr 08:38AM (edited 15 Apr 08:53AM)
> I try not to be too egotistic (and often fail), Tony, but I think Laurence was address me with that comment and I appreciated the invitation too.
>
> --
> Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
> Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Peter,
I was refering to Laurence`s post of 14 April at 10.20AM
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 15 Apr 12:27PM
Hi Laurence,

> So there is a year's worth of value-filled updates in the pipeline? Work will, of course, have started on these at least a year ago, and they'll be ready for the first round of testing pretty soon?

Some features and underlying technology, yes.

> Forgive my scepticism, but Avid's credibility is pretty low after the results of the last few years. Maybe you could take on some beta testers and relax the non-disclosure agreement a little to allow them to at least reveal "Yes, good stuff is coming!"

Unfortunately, it's unlikely we can relax our beta agreements now but another advantage of us moving to subscription is that we can talk about the future more openly.

> While you're here, Sam, can you clarify one thing? Suppose the next update arrives tomorrow, along with the new pricing model. Existing Sibelius owners can pay up straight away, start their "perpetual" subscription and get the update. Or wait a year before deciding - but NOT, of course, get any updates in the meantime. Is that right?

Yes

> And if we wait a year before paying, what year's updates are we buying?

You get all the features we have released up until that date and receive another year of support and upgrades from then on.

> Nice day, isn't it? :-)

Yes, splendid sunshine here in Frankfurt today!

Hope this clarifies it.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 15 Apr 03:54PM (edited 15 Apr 03:57PM)
> > While you're here, Sam, can you clarify one thing? Suppose the next update arrives tomorrow, along with the new pricing model. Existing Sibelius owners can pay up straight away, start their "perpetual" subscription and get the update. Or wait a year before deciding - but NOT, of course, get any updates in the meantime. Is that right?
>
> Yes
>
> > And if we wait a year before paying, what year's updates are we buying?
>
> You get all the features we have released up until that date and receive another year of support and upgrades from then on.


Thank you, Sam. I think everyone now at least has a fairly complete picture of WHAT they're reacting to.

We can pay early and experience the first year's improvements. Or we can save a year's subs, but rely on hearsay regarding the quality of those improvements.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Rob Tuley - 15 Apr 12:31PM
> Over the next year (and beyond) we're planning ....

I hear what you say, but if I had $100 for ever time somebody told me at work they had a great plan, I would have retired to a tropical island tax haven decades ago.

Oh wait, $100 a year is about the price of a subscription, no?....

I interpret the comments I read somewhere that "like Sibelius symphonies, we aren't going to have any new version numbers beyond 7" as meaning "Like Sibelius symphonies, what you have is all you are going to get, and this move is about throwing a few crumbs of bloatware together (like the ability to scribble on a score freehand) to milk cash from the gullible."

Most of the notational issues that annoyed me in Sib 2 are still unfixed in Sib 7. If Sib ever comes close to doing what Lilypond can already do straight out of the box (and without fooling around with plugins) I might think about going back to it. Right now, you are about 10 years behind the curve.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 15 Apr 12:56PM

Hi David,

> Hi Sam, I'm pretty optimistic about it. Subscription or not, I'm glad that Sibelius is moving forward, as we were all concerned a few years back when things got a bit shaky. I use it every day and I'm way to set in my ways to change, so I'm gonna sit back and wait for some new features!

That's good to hear!

--

Hi Rob,

> Oh wait, $100 a year is about the price of a subscription, no?....

The $89 renewal is for upgrades and support on your license. Unlike a typical subscription, you get to keep the version of Sibelius if/when you stop paying.

> I interpret the comments I read somewhere that "like Sibelius symphonies, we aren't going to have any new version numbers beyond 7" as meaning "Like Sibelius symphonies, what you have is all you are going to get, and this move is about throwing a few crumbs of bloatware together (like the ability to scribble on a score freehand) to milk cash from the gullible."

That's far from reality though, of course.

> Most of the notational issues that annoyed me in Sib 2 are still unfixed in Sib 7. If Sib ever comes close to doing what Lilypond can already do straight out of the box (and without fooling around with plugins) I might think about going back to it. Right now, you are about 10 years behind the curve.

It's true that there are a lot of issues that have been present in Sibelius for years and we have great plans to resolve these issues.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 15 Apr 03:54PM (edited 15 Apr 04:04PM)
Suppose we were to choose not to stay with 7.5 and forgo all further updates. Then, in 3 years we decide that the new Sibelius SuperX is worth buying; we fork over the substantial cost of a new license and subscription. Then, after awhile we let our subscription expire and Sibelius SuperX stops running. What is the status of our old, still satisfactory Sibelius 7.5?

And just out of curiosity, what is going to happen to "cross-grades"? Are Finale users going to start seeing "Own (uhr, subscribe to) Sibelius, too, for just $149 plus $89 (or whatever we charge in the future) per year for life".

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 15 Apr 07:33PM
Hi Patrick,

> What is the status of our old, still satisfactory Sibelius 7.5?

I'll need to check with the licensing scheme but it's likely it will continue to work, much like a Sibelius 7.1 and 7.5 license shares activations, the new licensing will continue to use your System ID (under the hood) so it will be linked.

The Crossgrade pricing is $199 for a new license then the same $89 a year for the upgrade and support plan.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bill Myers - 15 Apr 07:44PM
Sam, could you give an answer to this one?

Posted by Bill Myers - 13 Apr 20:25
Sam & Joe....I don't *think* this question has been asked/answered in the mountain of posts above - apologies if it has - but one feature of all of the past, numbered upgrades was the availability of the excellent updated printed manual. What's the future of that?

--
Sib. 7.5, Digital Perf 8.04,ProTools 10/11,
MacPro 8core 2.8Ghz, 16Gb Ram 4x150GB HDs, OS 10.8.5/10.9.2
MacBookPro,2core 2.16Ghz,2Gb Ram,95Gb HD, OS 10.6.8
loadza libraries, synths, and other stuff...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 15 Apr 07:54PM
Hi Bill,

Sorry to miss that. This thread has become quite the discussion so sorry to miss this. If there are other posts people would like clarification on, please just email me and I'll get back to you here as necessary.

> one feature of all of the past, numbered upgrades was the availability of the excellent updated printed manual. What's the future of that?

We are planning on printing a new reference guide to cover the new features we're introducing soon. We also have new Quick Start Guides to help people get up and running nice and quickly. We'll update the PDF versions with every release and the printed manual where significant changes require it, which may be quite often but will do so in a green and economic way.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 15 Apr 08:00PM

> We are planning on printing a new reference guide to cover the new features we're introducing soon. We also have new Quick Start Guides to help people get up and running nice and quickly. We'll update the PDF versions with every release and the printed manual where significant changes require it, which may be quite often but will do so in a green and economic way.
>
> Sam
>
> --
> Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
> sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius
>
> Contact the Sibelius support team:
> www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html
>
> KB and other resources:
> www.sibelius.com/support


What would that be?.... a downloadable page of addendums to insert into the older manual?

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bill Myers - 16 Apr 11:47AM
> Hi Bill,
>
> Sorry to miss that. This thread has become quite the discussion so sorry to miss this. If there are other posts people would like clarification on, please just email me and I'll get back to you here as necessary.
>
> > one feature of all of the past, numbered upgrades was the availability of the excellent updated printed manual. What's the future of that?
>
> We are planning on printing a new reference guide to cover the new features we're introducing soon. We also have new Quick Start Guides to help people get up and running nice and quickly. We'll update the PDF versions with every release and the printed manual where significant changes require it, which may be quite often but will do so in a green and economic way.
>
> Sam
>
> --
> Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
> sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius
>
> Contact the Sibelius support team:
> www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html
>
> KB and other resources:
> www.sibelius.com/support


thanks for that info, Sam....good luck at the Messe!


--
Sib. 7.5, Digital Perf 8.04,ProTools 10/11,
MacPro 8core 2.8Ghz, 16Gb Ram 4x150GB HDs, OS 10.8.5/10.9.2
MacBookPro,2core 2.16Ghz,2Gb Ram,95Gb HD, OS 10.6.8
loadza libraries, synths, and other stuff...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jeremy Aknai - 16 Apr 11:44AM
I've been a Sibelius user since 1998, I'm on version 7.1.3 and have never received an invitation to upgrade to 7.5. When I click on 'Check for Updates' it tells me I already have the latest version: http://www.sibelius.com/helpcenter/updates/sibelius7/from_7_1_3.html?serialno=.


I remember the good old days when we'd get an email or two, or even a pretty flyer in the post. I only found out about 7.5 from this forum.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Sparke - 16 Apr 08:28AM (edited 16 Apr 08:29AM)
At a meeting with the 'late' Bobby Lombardi and the Sibelius Users Group in London, he stated that Avid's philosophy (at the time) was only to develop 'professional' programmes not aimed at the 'lay' user. I can't see how developing features for Surface tie in with this - or has the philosophy changed?

I've been using Sibelius for 20 years (and aim to do so for another 20 years). For this privilege it appears I will have to fork out £1400 for a licence I have already paid for, with unsubstantiated promises of features that are of use to a professional composer.

I have v7 but still use v6. Of course, I will need to keep updating 7 in case 6 fails or Windows stops supporting it.

It appears Avid have absolutely no clue whatsoever about who uses their software and why.

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Howard Lorriman - 16 Apr 01:26PM
I second what Philip has just said. I have not upgraded to Sib7 as 6.2 works well on my 8.1 windows machine. I wish to carry on using 6.2. However, I will have no option but to upgrade every year in order to stay in the loop or face a whacking bill should I skip an upgrade. A cynical move in my opinion.

--
Sib 6.2 Dell Inspiron 17R Windows 8.1 16GB Ram,
Sib 6.2 Dell Inspiron 9400 Windows XP 2GB Ram,
Sib 6.2 Dell Dimension 8300 Windows XP,
Also, Sibelius 7 Acorn Risc PC.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 16 Apr 07:10PM
Hi Ralph,

> What would that be?.... a downloadable page of addendums to insert into the older manual?

Not sure. We’ll see what changes to be made and what the impact will be to update the Reference.



Hi Bill,

> good luck at the Messe!

Thanks! It’s going really well. We got a very stable build from the developers on Tuesday and it’s showing off the multitouch, annotation and new Keypad very well.



Hi Jeremy,

Indeed, that page hasn’t been updated but it does suggest you have the latest update for 7.1.x though. You can find the real upgrade to Sibelius 7.5 from our webstore:

https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductDetails?sku=AR-AV-SIB75U-00

As you’re buying now, you’ll get an upgrade to the new version of Sibelius when it’s available too.



Philip, of course we need to cater for all our customers’ needs. Improving the underlying technology, workflows and features in Sibelius will be at the fore of what we are going to be delivering.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 17 Apr 10:28AM (edited 17 Apr 10:31AM)
As I see it Avid is shooting itself in the foot. I have a Surface which I take with me when I'm travelling to read e-mails and other trivia. I wouldn't dream of trying to write a large symphonic score on it, let alone expect decent playback from it.
Really serious users will need a really serious computer and expensive sound libraries if they want decent realistic playback, and they'll need a large monitor (probably 2) if they are dealing with big orchestral scores. Heaven forfend that Sibelius should degenerate into a toy for dilettante users.
I for one will certainly not be upgrading beyond 7.5, and will switch to the new Steinberg program if I'm still alive when it emerges. (Not a joke - my cancer is likely to finish me off in the relatively short future - and if it doesn't something else surely will!)

--
Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. RME Babyface Blue HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 10:39AM
I think we'll still be allowed to run Sibelius on our big computers, Derek!

There are definite issues with this new regime. But let's not invent problems that don't exist.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Robin Walker - 17 Apr 10:47AM
> I think we'll still be allowed to run Sibelius on our big computers,

Indeed - the new Sibelius will be 64-bit only, so those users still managing with 32-bit Windows will not be able to upgrade.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Apr 11:02AM
>I for one will certainly not be upgrading beyond 7.5, and will switch to the new Steinberg program

Im sure this reflects the thinking of many--stick with what they have, and dump Avid for Steinberg, sight unseen.

>As I see it Avid is shooting itself in the foot.

Again, yes, as they did with Daniel and all..youd think theyd EVENTUALLY run out of FEET:)

>if I'm still alive when it emerges. (Not a joke - my cancer is likely to finish me off in the relatively short future - and if it doesn't something else surely will!)

Im so terribly sorry to hear this..one can still hope for a miracle, and count me in on that.

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 17 Apr 10:54AM
The problem is that in spite of upgrading all the way from Sibelius 1.0 I'll now be expected to pay a licensing fee in addition to all those upgrades. And for what? - - gimmicks more appropriate to a computer game than serious software.
I'll continue with 7.5 until it stops working. I'll convert all my files to PDF and XML and hope to move them on to anything truly new that comes along. I don't see how Sibelius will survive if users have to keep forking out for the latest whizz-bang addendum.
Does Avid really expect all those occasional users to pay up indefinitely?
I really do see it as a problem, and a very serious one.

--
Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. RME Babyface Blue HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 11:48AM
Not quite, Derek. You'll be expected to pay a licensing fee which INCLUDES all upgrades.

I'm by no means an apologist for Avid on this. But let's try to work from accurate information not emotional reaction.

--
FAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/sibelius.html
If you want help with a score, attach the sib file!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 17 Apr 12:01PM
"I'm by no means an apologist for Avid on this. But let's try to work from accurate information not emotional reaction."
Well yes - I agree, but for a composer emotional reaction is far more important than accurate information :>)

--
Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. RME Babyface Blue HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 12:21PM
> "I'm by no means an apologist for Avid on this. But let's try to work from accurate information not emotional reaction."
> Well yes - I agree, but for a composer emotional reaction is far more important than accurate information :>)
>


Nice one, Derek!

We're discussing vaporware of course, both the coming year of Sibelius development and, to a even greater extent, the possibilities from Steinberg.

And this isn't a military operation where we need to establish a position and confirm who our allies are in preparation for future hostilities! For one year from the forthcoming Sibelius release we have to do - precisely nothing. We can, if we wish, pay one year's subscription and experience the updates firsthand. (I suspect we'll be underwhelmed, but let's see.) Or we can hang on and listen to what others say about them.

We have no immediate option of moving to Steinberg because their product doesn't exist yet! And any old-timers who found Finale a viable alternative at the time of the Campaign have presumably moved already.

Sibelius users who do nothing more demanding than writing out hymn tunes or simple songwriting should definitely investigate MuseScore.

Now, those who enjoy rattling their sabres may carry on :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Apr 12:55PM (edited 17 Apr 01:22PM)
>I'm by no means an apologist for Avid on this.

Could have fooled me and half the people on the entire web, Laurence, the way youre excitedly going from site to site with this message--some even think you're now working for Avid;)

>Now, those who enjoy rattling their sabres may carry on :-)

With one hand apologizing for Avid, and the other criticizing them (as usual, both sides) Id say youre included yourself in this--its SOO reminiscent of what you did with Save Sibelius, and it was pointed out then also.

Seems you also suggested, in this very thread here, up above:

"I was just thinking that if another Campaign ever revs up, an effective way to cripple Sibelius would be for a handful of people to leave this forum :-)"

Now if THAT ain't sabre rattlin', I DONT know what is!

Simply because people are unhappy with this, especially being forced into it, and speak up about it doesnt make them "sabre rattlers" and you shouldnt again be calling people names, or taking swipes at them--they simply want a fair deal, and to be heard.

And I applaud them, and join them...and point out people are just about completely unanimously against Avids plan.

They simply dont like how theyre being treated, and again, whats being done to Sibelius..same as with Daniel and all, and they should be heard, and not called names.

Thanks Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 01:39PM
:-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 17 Apr 02:38PM
Bob Morabito said:

..youd think theyd EVENTUALLY run out of FEET:)[to shoot at]

As we both know Bob, they won't listen. It takes a fair bit to make me truly angry and Avid has managed it. Well done them!

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Apr 03:26PM
HI Peter

Yes, sadly we know all too well they wont, and arent listening..but I feel it should still be said, so other people will know how the users feel...
and its just about unanimous.

>It takes a fair bit to make me truly angry and Avid has managed it. Well done them!

I hear you..the anger, hurt, and disappointment of this new move by Avid and reopening of old wounds about Daniel and all is echoed throughout the forum.

Avid just keeps doing what it pleases, and damn the users, Pro Tools users also..what a horrible shame.

Thanks Bob

PS Always so nice seeing you here Peter:)

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 17 Apr 03:56PM
Word of mouth, and user recommendations mean a lot and have done well to sell the software to others. If Avid losses that it is may be in deep Kimchi when Steinberg arrives. It will be able to rewire to its DAW and Video editor. Well positioned to take on Avid a couple years down the road.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Apr 04:40PM
> Word of mouth, and user recommendations mean a lot and have done well to sell the software to others. If Avid losses that it is may be in deep Kimchi when Steinberg arrives. It will be able to rewire to its DAW and Video editor. Well positioned to take on Avid a couple years down the road.
>
> --

Very well said, Ralph--and I think Avid has lost that already, judging from all the posts here. This subscription plan, coupled with the past horrors with Daniel and team, saw to that.

David, in an earlier post here (up above)also summed this up really well:

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=674072&groupid=3򤧣

David said:

"It seems Avid is more interested in the newbies than the veterans. While that might make sense financially at first glance, they have made one huge miscalculation: the veterans are basically the Sibelius Sales Team! I've "sold" at least 3 full versions, 3 people pondered the "Finale or Sibelius" question and went with Sibelius because I used it, and they valued my work/charts/expertise etc. When that is multiplied by all the longtime users doing the same, well, that's your sales force. The newbies purchase it because the old school speaks highly of the product AND the company, it's that simple. Telling those old school people that they have to get an upgrade they can't really benefit from is, well, one huge risk."

So Ralph..and David too..I couldnt agree with you more!

But again, Avid doesnt care, wont listen, and will keep doing things the way it wants.. and one would have thought them nearly going broke in the recent past would have been a very valuable lesson in NOT doing things the EXACT way theyre doing here, and now...again.

And its such a shame as I, and many others REALLY like Sibelius..but cant say the same for Avid.

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 17 Apr 05:04PM (edited 17 Apr 08:32PM)
Avid is still bleeding revenue and it will continue with their current model of the services to users of its products.
1.When have they ever asked the users of these products for their vision as to Product features (the idea scale appears to be a waste of time and effort when we are not given any good feed back on the status of our input [and how many years has that been going on now?])?
2. Product support better than 90 days. And, after 90 days you gotta pay (what's up with that?) for what should be included free until the next version is delivered.
3. Avid's sales have been declining the past few years and Hernandez was brought in to turn the company around. In 2014, Avid generated $530 million in net revenue, down from $563 million in 2013. Net income for the company has also been sliding — to $14.7 million last year, from $21 million in 2013.

And Finally, most who use this software are not big publishing houses, Hollywood Movie Industry, or TV Industry, or Recording.

Good on them if they could stay solvent and prosper if they just were to service and supply product to those, but they can't and that is the model that is unsustainable and affects their bottom line.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 17 Apr 03:18PM
You've noticed that dichotomy on interactions here!

I got my first impressions with the Brian Ferneyhough dusting.
Music not to my liking, but organized sound and silence nonetheless.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 05:25PM
Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)

All we can do now, as then, is try to be as well informed as possible and, when a product/subscription/whatever is offered, buy it or not.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 17 Apr 05:30PM
> Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)
>
> All we can do now, as then, is try to be as well informed as possible and, when a product/subscription/whatever is offered, buy it or not.

You know...."In for a penny, in for a pound."


--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 17 Apr 05:51PM (edited 17 Apr 08:56PM)
> > Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)

If they DID ditch it, WHY on earth would they STILL be on a Sibelius forum?

Unreal..there goes your "we're all still here count".

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Greg Jones - 17 Apr 07:58PM
I have a question: are there any plans for an updated sound library to accompany the newer version of Sibelius?

--
Sibelius 7.5.1, MacBook Pro, OS X Version 10.10 Yosemite, Logic Pro, Note Performer 1.3.3, 8 GB 1067 Mhz DDR3, 2.53 GHz Intel Core i5

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 17 Apr 08:13PM
> I have a question: are there any plans for an updated sound library to accompany the newer version of Sibelius?
>
> --
> Sibelius 7.5.1, MacBook Pro, OS X Version 10.10 Yosemite, Logic Pro, Note Performer 1.3.3, 8 GB 1067 Mhz DDR3, 2.53 GHz Intel Core i5


I have not seen anything on the website about a sound library update.
Would be a little bone tossed though if Avid/Sibelius would let those who did not, and do not have the Sib 6 sound library to be able to download and use that also if one wished.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Steve - 17 Apr 10:14PM
> > > Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)
>
> If they DID ditch it, WHY on earth would they STILL be on a Sibelius forum?
>
> Unreal..there goes your "we're all still here count".
>
> Thanks Bob
>
> --
> Bob Morabito
> Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Some of us have stopped purchasing upgrades but still check in from time to time and still use our current Sibelius versions. I for one have definitely already "abandoned" AVID as far as new purchases are concerned.
--
Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
http://ComposersofSibelius.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 18 Apr 12:58AM
> > > > Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)
> >
> > If they DID ditch it, WHY on earth would they STILL be on a Sibelius forum?
> >
> > Unreal..there goes your "we're all still here count".
> >
> > Thanks Bob
> >
> > --
> > Bob Morabito
> > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
>
> Some of us have stopped purchasing upgrades but still check in from time to time and still use our current Sibelius versions. I for one have definitely already "abandoned" AVID as far as new purchases are concerned.
> --
> Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
> http://ComposersofSibelius.com

Hi Steve

I wouldnt consider that you "ditched" Sibelius, at all--

especially since you're using Sib 7.1.3, which is the latest update to Sib 7!

The point is you're still using Sib, just as there are some even using much much earlier versions than your Sib 7.1.3. and I took the "ditching" part of the post here to mean just that-- NOT using Sib at all.

Not upgrading, and still using Sib, is far different to totally stopping using Sib, and ditching it..

>I for one have definitely already "abandoned" AVID as far as new purchases are concerned.

I feel with this coming new subscription plan, and its borne out by polls here, that MANY more will soon be in the same boat.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Steve - 18 Apr 03:35AM (edited 18 Apr 03:36AM)



> > > > > Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)

> > >
> > > If they DID ditch it, WHY on earth would they STILL be on a Sibelius forum?
> > >
> > > Unreal..there goes your "we're all still here count".
> > >
> > > Thanks Bob
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bob Morabito
> > > Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> > > Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

> >
> > Some of us have stopped purchasing upgrades but still check in from time to time and still use our current Sibelius versions. I for one have definitely already "abandoned" AVID as far as new purchases are concerned.
> > --
> > Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
> > http://ComposersofSibelius.com

>

> Hi Steve
>
> I wouldnt consider that you "ditched" Sibelius, at all--
>
> especially since you're using Sib 7.1.3, which is the latest update to Sib 7!
>
> The point is you're still using Sib, just as there are some even using much much earlier versions than your Sib 7.1.3. and I took the "ditching" part of the post here to mean just that-- NOT using Sib at all.
>
> Not upgrading, and still using Sib, is far different to totally stopping using Sib, and ditching it..


I agree completely Bob. I was only pointing out that AVID has already lost some of us (in terms of future revenue) since I would more likely than not have purchased future versions of Sibelius had things progressed differently. As thing have turned out, AVID has lost my business, but of course I still use the software I have already bought and paid for (and enjoy very much).
>

> >I for one have definitely already "abandoned" AVID as far as new purchases are concerned.
>
> I feel with this coming new subscription plan, and its borne out by polls here, that MANY more will soon be in the same boat.
>
> Thanks Bob
>
> --
> Bob Morabito
> Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD



--
Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
http://ComposersofSibelius.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 18 Apr 04:38AM

> I agree completely Bob. I was only pointing out that AVID has already lost some of us (in terms of future revenue) since I would more likely than not have purchased future versions of Sibelius had things progressed differently. As thing have turned out, AVID has lost my business, but of course I still use the software I have already bought and paid for (and enjoy very much).
>

Hi Steve--

I understand, Steve--thanks for the clarification:)

Thanks Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Mike P. - 17 Apr 08:11PM
> Hands up who DID ditch Sibelius at the last crisis? Oh look, we're all still here! :-)

Yes, we are. However, this is partly because of the limited alternatives today. Many Sibelius users don't like Finale and although there are other notation programs out there besides these, none compete head-on with the big two for power users. Once the Steinberg software becomes available, though, I suspect we will see notation users migrate in droves based on multiple factors including better features, trust in the development team, and distrust of Avid.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jesper Elén - 17 Apr 08:18PM
+1

--
MacBook Pro, 8GB, OS 10.9.4,
Sibelius 7.5.1, Wallander Instruments Brass & Woodwind 2.3.7,
Wallander Instruments NotePerformer 1.4.2,
EZDrummer 2.0.2 + Jazz EZX 1.5.1, Pianoteq Pro 5.1.4, Acoustic Samples The Upright

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 17 Apr 08:29PM (edited 17 Apr 11:01PM)
As I say in reply to so many pronouncements here, let's see.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 18 Apr 05:21AM
Has anyone ever kept track of which message on this forum has had the largest number of replies? This one must be fairly well up in the list...

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7.5, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2015.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 18 Apr 10:55AM
Who`s to say (Daniel apart) that Steinberg`s product will or won`t be `as good` as all the rest? It will inevitably take a couple of years to settle down with public beta testing, modifications etc to consider. And eventually once it has settled into `profitable` use, similar upgrades will also inevitably have to come at a cost.
We also have to consider that future computers will also need upgrading also. I ditched XP for Win 7, and now have to understand that even 7 has a limited future.
Also many composers have limited finances (do the developers understand this?) They don`t go out to the nearest main car dealer to order a couple of Rolls Royces and a small runaround every couple of years. IMO the music notation software designers selling strategies will always be up and down in a similar way to oil prices, or the underware of certain females who sell their products, compared to other more stable market prices.
There`s no guarantee Steinberg will (after hitting the market running) continue as long as what Sibelius has been to be a sales winner.

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 18 Apr 11:06AM

> Also many composers have limited finances (do the developers understand this?) They don`t go out to the nearest main car dealer to order a couple of Rolls Royces and a small runaround every couple of years.

Yes, I really must address my Rolls-Royce habit. Here's my latest purchase.
Attachment IMG_20150418_115944.png (652K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 18 Apr 12:10PM

> > Also many composers have limited finances (do the developers understand this?) They don`t go out to the nearest main car dealer to order a couple of Rolls Royces and a small runaround every couple of years.
>
> Yes, I really must address my Rolls-Royce habit. Here's my latest purchase.

Didn`t know the availability comes in maroon, with opaque roof protection and supplied foot pump. Are you going to allow Avid to view your collection? :)
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Bob Morabito - 18 Apr 10:18AM
Laurence Payne wrote:
>
> We're discussing vaporware of course, both the coming year of Sibelius development and, to a even greater extent, the possibilities from Steinberg.
>

I dont think its fair or appropriate to refer to either the new Sibelius, or Steinbergs program, as "vaporware", with its negative connotations, and Im sure both wouldnt appreciate your comments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"In the computer industry, vaporware is a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually manufactured nor officially cancelled."

Im at a loss how this applies to Sib and Steinberg's program...do you somehow feel theyre both not being honest, about their programs, and neither actually exists, and wont be released to the public?

Sorry, I find this very hard to believe..and while Im less than thrilled about the new Sibelius and its subscription plan coming out, I do very much look forward to Steinberg--

and believe them BOTH to be genuine programs in development, and NOT vaporware in the least.

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 18 Apr 10:23AM
The wonderful thing about definitions is that there are so many to choose from!

Here's another, from:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/vapourware

"vapourware: Software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed."

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Mike Lyons - 18 Apr 09:10PM
I really wish you two would get a room somewhere! Honestly, you are bickering while the ship sinks. Am I going to have to spank the pair of you? I charge for that kind of thing!

--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 18 Apr 10:48PM
> I really wish you two would get a room somewhere! Honestly, you are bickering while the ship sinks. Am I going to have to spank the pair of you? I charge for that kind of thing!


Tacet.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Laurence Payne - 18 Apr 10:51PM
> > These features set us up really well for the future where we'll be able to build on these to bring new UI, editing workflows and, very importantly, notation improvements.


Just noticed this bit! Wasn't the excuse for the minimal notation improvements in Sibelius 7 that all the under-the-hood stuff in going 64-bit "set us up really well for the future"? It IS the future now :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Rob Tuley - 19 Apr 04:43AM
> It IS the future now :-)

I'm not convinced. My local pub has had a sign behind the bar saying "free beer tomorrow" for the last 30 years. Also applies to software development.

> These features set us up really well for the future where we'll be able to build on these to bring new UI, editing workflows and, very importantly, notation improvements.

Sorry, but that sort of fluff is what my boss at work calls "mouth music" - or sometimes "much wind and waffle". And my old maths teacher, born in the depths of rural Norfolk in the UK had the nice turn of phrase "fine words don't butter any parsnips" (it sounds better in a Norfolk accent).

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Windows 7.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Sparke - 19 Apr 08:11AM

>
> > These features set us up really well for the future where we'll be able to build on these to bring new UI, editing workflows and, very importantly, notation improvements.
>
> Sorry, but that sort of fluff is what my boss at work calls "mouth music" - or sometimes "much wind and waffle". And my old maths teacher, born in the depths of rural Norfolk in the UK had the nice turn of phrase "fine words don't butter any parsnips" (it sounds better in a Norfolk accent).
>

Totally agree. As a user whose primary concern for the last 20 years has been to produce a professionally engraved scores of my pieces for publication, I have grave doubts that notation improvements are top priority at Avid. I think Sibelius is a fabulous programme and wouldn't be able to be a full-time composer without it, but until the programme can centre a whole-bar rest in front of a double bar, I treat such "mouth music" with scepticism. I don't even know what "work flow" is, but I do know whether a rest is centred or not!

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Mike Lyons - 19 Apr 09:02AM
And that's a +1 from me!

--
1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 19 Apr 04:33PM
Almost 200 posts and nobody has asked the most important question: What's the startup music gonna be now? :) I vote for the violin concerto.

--
7.5.1, Windows 8.1

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 19 Apr 05:11PM (edited 19 Apr 05:11PM)
> Almost 200 posts and nobody has asked the most important question: What's the startup music gonna be now? :) I vote for the violin concerto.
>
> --
> 7.5.1, Windows 8.1

Suggestions welcome! There's one tradition we won't be departing from. Slightly outdated perhaps, but it wouldn't be the same without it.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Robin Walker - 19 Apr 05:24PM
Perhaps "En Saga" would be appropriate, given the length of this thread.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 19 Apr 05:33PM
> Almost 200 posts and nobody has asked the most important question: What's the startup music gonna be now? :) I vote for the violin concerto.
>
> --
> 7.5.1, Windows 8.1


I have selected my own.....Hendrix's "All Along the WatchTower."

Philip blogged about changing the startup sound about a year ago on the Sibelius Blog.

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/change-the-startup-sound-in-sibelius/


--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.3.3, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 19 Apr 06:31PM
how about Olim lacus colueram for the new startup sound?

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 19 Apr 09:37PM
> how about Olim lacus colueram for the new startup sound?
>
Well, if we're to move aware from works by Sibelius, how about the Dirge from Brittens's Serenade?

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 19 Apr 09:43PM
> Well, if we're to move aware from works by Sibelius, how about the Dirge from Brittens's Serenade?

I was trying to find something sibelius oriented for the new startup sound but i drew a blank, lol

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter McAleer - 19 Apr 10:18PM
The Swan of Tuonela would seem uncannily appropriate. That's it from me. I'm off in support of a certain Bob M for the duration. I wish you all well!

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.3; Wallander NotePerformer; iMac 3.1 with internal ssd; macBook Pro; OS 10.9.5 (Mavericks)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Peter Roos - 19 Apr 11:20PM
Darth Vader march from Star Wars!

followed by a voice over by James Earl Jones:

"You have upgraded well, my apprentice."

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com
IMDb: www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Nome - 19 Apr 11:42PM
No, only John Cage's 4'33" would be appropriate for the opening music to a non-existent notation program!

--
Sibelius 6.2.0, Sibelius 7.5.1, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Windows 10 TP, Intel Core i7 cpu 950 @ 3.07 GHz, 32GB RAM; Mac Mini, 18GB RAM, OSX Yosemite, M-Audio Firewire Audiophile, Sibelius Sounds, Sibelius Sounds Choral, Kontakt 4, Symphonic Choirs, Vienna Symphonic Library, Garritan Personal Orchestra 4, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88ST Pro, etc.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 20 Apr 03:25AM
> No, only John Cage's 4'33" would be appropriate for the opening music to a non-existent notation program!
>
Sorry to interject seriousness into this conversation, but let's not forget that Sibelius is still a pretty good piece of software and that it's not going away (or even going silent). Support and meaningful development may be close to non-existant, but Sibelius lives on.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.5, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by David - 20 Apr 05:07AM
> > No, only John Cage's 4'33" would be appropriate for the opening music to a non-existent notation program!
> >
> Sorry to interject seriousness into this conversation, but let's not forget that Sibelius is still a pretty good piece of software and that it's not going away (or even going silent). Support and meaningful development may be close to non-existant, but Sibelius lives on.
>
> --
> Patrick O'Keefe

I'm willing to give the new guys a fair chance and an open mind. They aren't the bean counters. As a longtime user, I certainly didn't like them dumping Daniel etc, but I have to recognize the difference between "management" and "product makers", so I hope the new crew has some tricks up their sleeves. I don't like the "new way" either, but one thing I like less than the "new way" is working with Finale. :)

As for the "theme music", Tapiola is a wonderful piece. It's mysterious and rarely played in the states. And it's the next in line....



--
7.5.1, Windows 8.1

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 20 Apr 10:21AM
> > No, only John Cage's 4'33" would be appropriate for the opening music to a non-existent notation program!

This one made me chuckle. We'd have to slow down the (already not particularly quick) Sibelius startup loading process. And top points for the most musical dig so far at the new team :).

> Darth Vader march from Star Wars!
>
> followed by a voice over by James Earl Jones:
>
> "You have upgraded well, my apprentice."

This one too... might be worth a build or two.

There is a Sibelius 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._8_%28Sibelius%29) which was never published, but I'm not aware of any recordings.
--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 20 Apr 11:57AM
>There is a Sibelius 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._8_%28Sibelius%29) which was never published, but I'm not aware of any recordings.

Well, you could always photoscore it in and do one in Sibelius...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 20 Apr 12:05PM
I`ve had to slow down 4`33" in order to practise playing it . . . .

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Ian Schofield - 20 Apr 01:42PM
The following recording:

The Unknown Sibelius [Osmo Vänskä] [BIS: BIS2065]

Includes four short orchestral sketches / fragments which (apparently) may, or may not have been intended for his 8th symphony.

Ian Schofield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 21 Apr 07:53AM
Thanks the pointer Ian, I'll check it out!

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Sparke - 22 Apr 10:55AM
I'm just checking to see if the great JS wrote a piece called 'Commercial Suicide'. Somehow doubt it - he had more sense......

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 Apr 11:28AM
But he had 20 children and he practised on a spinster in the loft . . .

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Philip Sparke - 22 Apr 11:37AM

Erm.... I meant Jean Sibelius.
--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 22 Apr 11:55AM (edited 22 Apr 11:59AM)
I meant Johann Seb :)

Edit: And I did pass my GCE music all those eons ago :)

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Steve - 03 May 09:42PM
> The following recording:
>
> The Unknown Sibelius [Osmo Vänskä] [BIS: BIS2065]
>
> Includes four short orchestral sketches / fragments which (apparently) may, or may not have been intended for his 8th symphony.
>
> Ian Schofield

I've purchased this album. With or without the sketches it is a great addition to any Sibelius fan's collection. Thanks Ian for pointing this out.
--
Sibelius 7.1.3, iMac - Snow Leopard 2015.
http://ComposersofSibelius.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: All New Sibelius and licensing options coming soon
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 23 Apr 07:30AM (edited 26 Jul 06:33AM)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Roger W - 27 Apr 08:23AM
Not sure if this has already been answered, but I'm curious about how the Surface Pro stuff will work. Will you be able to synchronize a Surface Pro 3 device with your desktop and use the tablet as a secondary input device? Or will you have to edit the score on the Surface Pro device, save it and copy to desktop computer for further editing? If it can be used as a secondary input device, and if you introduce convenient tools for drawing graphical notation using the pen, then it might actually be useful.

Roger
--
composer/orchestrator
Sib 7.5, core i7, 12GB, Win7 64-bit, Audiophile 2496

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 27 Apr 10:13AM
Hi Roger,

> Will you be able to synchronize a Surface Pro 3 device with your desktop and use the tablet as a secondary input device?

The Surface is essentially a fully fledged Windows machine, so it's actually working as a primary input device. There are apps (I believe) that allow you to use it in the way that you describe. I've not tried them myself (will post back if I get a chance).

I'm keeping the precise details of our Pen-based workflows quiet at the moment, more to come soon. I can tell you that my focus is on speed of note input, using the pen.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 27 Apr 06:28PM (edited 27 Apr 06:29PM)
hi joe

Is there any chance of more features than you have announced being available on the launch date of the new sibelius? i really do feel that none of those features benefit mac users. please tell me in your words why i as a mac user would benefit from the new sibelius, at point of release thank you. I'm interested in features only not bug fixes btw.

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 28 Apr 01:10PM

> Is there any chance of more features than you have announced being available on the launch date of the new sibelius? i really do feel that none of those features benefit mac users. please tell me in your words why i as a mac user would benefit from the new sibelius, at point of release thank you. I'm interested in features only not bug fixes btw.

Hello Philip,

This is certainly a more Windows-focused release. We'll be providing more details on why soon, but don't worry, it's not indicative of any future lack of support for Mac OS (says he writing from a very lovely Mac).

Obviously the subscription support schemes are cross-platform. The Annotate feature works on Mac OS, using a track pad or a mouse. Sibelius has already been mostly retina-ised on Mac OS for a while, and that stays the same.

If those features aren't useful to you, I suggest you wait and watch from afar as we provide future updates. As an existing user, you'll have a year from the day we release to choose to take advantage of the $89 upgrade price. You can get on board as and when we release something that appeals, which of course I hope we'll be able to do.

Let me know if questions.

Best wishes,

Joe

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 29 Apr 12:12AM (edited 29 Apr 12:14AM)
>
> > Is there any chance of more features than you have announced being available on the launch date of the new sibelius? i really do feel that none of those features benefit mac users. please tell me in your words why i as a mac user would benefit from the new sibelius, at point of release thank you. I'm interested in features only not bug fixes btw.
>
> Hello Philip,
>
> This is certainly a more Windows-focused release. We'll be providing more details on why soon, but don't worry, it's not indicative of any future lack of support for Mac OS (says he writing from a very lovely Mac).
>
> Obviously the subscription support schemes are cross-platform. The Annotate feature works on Mac OS, using a track pad or a mouse. Sibelius has already been mostly retina-ised on Mac OS for a while, and that stays the same.
>
> If those features aren't useful to you, I suggest you wait and watch from afar as we provide future updates. As an existing user, you'll have a year from the day we release to choose to take advantage of the $89 upgrade price. You can get on board as and when we release something that appeals, which of course I hope we'll be able to do.
>
> Let me know if questions.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joe

Thanks joe.

The subscription support schemes are one thing i would gladly just leave to windows and not make that cross compatible.

I really think you would have done better if you waited for release of this new subscription and brought more features out, that would persuade people that it was a good idea, and also balanced the advantage to both types of computer users.

I think i can understand the hidpi option given what you said about a framework, I think given the fact that retina support came as a minor update, i don't think this should necessarily be described as a feature, more so a backbone to make future development easier, which i am not against per se.

I do very much understand the grace period, but you really need to be dangling a bigger carrot right now given the fact there is soon to be competition, If i was being ultra suspicious i might think you are waiting for the competition to show its hand so that you can try and ace them.

I'm trying to remain objective here, Im sure we will be given something more worth while in due course, I just really feel more should have been provided before this announcement.

I don't expect you can answer this but will photoscore adopt a subscription model too, if so do you have any ideas on pricing etc.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 29 Apr 11:43AM
Hi Philip,

Constructively put, and I appreciate it.

> If i was being ultra suspicious i might think you are waiting for the competition to show its hand so that you can try and ace them.

Yes we do keep an eye on what everyone else is up to. Once a company has released a product, they're usually months (or years) ahead of the features that actually make it into the hands of users, because software development takes a long time. In other words, it wouldn't make sense for us to work like this. On the other hand, I hope we've got some tricks up our sleeve too for the future!

Our choice of release date will become clearer as we make more announcements soon.

On the PhotoScore/AudioScore front - we're only offering it in bundled form with the perpetual license (i.e. there is no bundle subscription). Or, you can continue to buy it separately exactly like you can now.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 29 Apr 06:15PM (edited 29 Apr 06:16PM)
> On the PhotoScore/AudioScore front - we're only offering it in bundled form with the perpetual license (i.e. there is no bundle subscription). Or, you can continue to buy it separately exactly like you can now.

so, let me just get this clear, photoscore light, (lets just call it this for a minute) will only be given to perpetual license holders, and there will be a chance to buy the full version through avid with the perpetual license, at the same time as upgrading sibelius for an additional fee.

But also the chance to buy it separately from neuratron, possibly at a discount for existing users, have i understood that correctly please.

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 30 Apr 09:48PM
Hi Philip,

> so, let me just get this clear, photoscore light, (lets just call it this for a minute) will only be given to perpetual license holders

PhotoScore Lite and AudioScore Lite will continue to be bundled with all licenses of Sibelius (perpetual and subscription)

New copies of PhotoScore Ultimate and AudioScore Ultimate will be available separately from our webstore or one of our resellers. You can get these two bundled with a new perpetual license of Sibelius, an upgrade or with the Sibelius Academic Perpetual license.

If you already own PhotoScore Ultimate or AudioScore Ultimate, you can upgrade these directly with Neuratron.

Sam


--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 01 May 06:06PM (edited 01 May 06:50PM)
firstly sam and joe thanks for your replies, one further question, will the new photoscore work on sib 7.5?

oh and will there be a trial version of sib 8 available to help people make up their minds that will not disrupt sibelius 7 thanks

--
macbook pro i7 non retina 2.9ghz 16gb ram 10.9.5 1TB SSD boot drive, 2tb storage drive.

sib 6.2.0 and sib 7.1.3 and 7.5.1
sibelius choral and garitan personal orchestra.
(aria 4). east west symphonic east west symphonic orchestra with johnathan loving sound sets photoscore 7.2. note performer

musescore noteworthy melody assistant and virtual singer.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 06 May 09:33AM
Hi Philip,

> firstly sam and joe thanks for your replies, one further question, will the new photoscore work on sib 7.5?

Yes. The 'Send to Sibelius' may only be linked up to work with the new version, so in that case, you'll still be able to export from PhotoScore and AudioScore as MusicXML files to import into Sibelius.

> oh and will there be a trial version of sib 8 available to help people make up their minds that will not disrupt sibelius 7 thanks

Yes! We'll be making a free 30-day trial available.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Philip Woodroffe - 06 May 07:36PM (edited 06 May 08:38PM)
> Hi Philip,
>
> > firstly sam and joe thanks for your replies, one further question, will the new photoscore work on sib 7.5?
>
> Yes. The 'Send to Sibelius' may only be linked up to work with the new version, so in that case, you'll still be able to export from PhotoScore and AudioScore as MusicXML files to import into Sibelius.
>
> > oh and will there be a trial version of sib 8 available to help people make up their minds that will not disrupt sibelius 7 thanks
>
> Yes! We'll be making a free 30-day trial available.
>
> Sam

thanks again sam, will saving as an opt file with PS8 and opening in sib 7.5 not work, i guess probably not, due to new features.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Sam @ Sibelius - 07 May 02:01PM
Hi Philip,

> thanks again sam, will saving as an opt file with PS8 and opening in sib 7.5 not work, i guess probably not, due to new features.

I don't know of any changes to the .opt file format as yet. If there aren't, then you will be able to use that process with v7 and 7.5.

Sam

--
Sam Butler | Product Manager | Sibelius
sam.butler@avid.com | @avid_sam | @AvidSibelius

Contact the Sibelius support team:
www.sibelius.com/documents/contact_form.html

KB and other resources:
www.sibelius.com/support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Roger W - 27 Apr 09:38PM
> Hi Roger,
>
> > Will you be able to synchronize a Surface Pro 3 device with your desktop and use the tablet as a secondary input device?
>
> The Surface is essentially a fully fledged Windows machine, so it's actually working as a primary input device. There are apps (I believe) that allow you to use it in the way that you describe. I've not tried them myself (will post back if I get a chance).
>
> I'm keeping the precise details of our Pen-based workflows quiet at the moment, more to come soon. I can tell you that my focus is on speed of note input, using the pen.
>

Thank you for the reply. I understand it is intended as a primary input device, though it's very unlikely that I'd like to use a tablet as a primary device. Working on 30+ staff scores on a 12 inch screen is not the most convenient solution. But if you indeed can make the pen-based input fast and precise, to the point where it can speed up workflow, then it could be nice to have as secondary input device, while working on the desktop.

Handling of graphical notation has always been one of the weakest parts of Sibelius. The easiest way to write graphical scores is usually with pen and paper. So now when you introduce a pen based interface, you would have a great chance to do something about it. Just a suggestion.

Roger
--
composer/orchestrator
Sib 7.5, core i7, 12GB, Win7 64-bit, Audiophile 2496

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Joe @ Sibelius - 28 Apr 01:04PM
> Handling of graphical notation has always been one of the weakest parts of Sibelius. The easiest way to write graphical scores is usually with pen and paper. So now when you introduce a pen based interface, you would have a great chance to do something about it. Just a suggestion.

The annotate feature is, admittedly, not designed as a graphical notation feature, but it does open up some interesting doors that might lead us that way. Attaching a little screen shot that might pique your interest. This was created using the annotate feature.

--
Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com
Attachment Screenshot_042415_031107_PM.jpg (132K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 29 Apr 11:30AM
> I do very much understand the grace period, but you really need to be dangling a bigger carrot right now given the fact there is soon to be competition, If i was being ultra suspicious i might think you are waiting for the competition to show its hand so that you can try and ace them.

> I'm trying to remain objective here, Im sure we will be given something more worth while in due course, I just really feel more should have been provided before this announcement.

Great vision here Philip I believe.


--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 29 Apr 11:55AM (edited 29 Apr 11:57AM)
> > Handling of graphical notation has always been one of the weakest parts of Sibelius. The easiest way to write graphical scores is usually with pen and paper. So now when you introduce a pen based interface, you would have a great chance to do something about it. Just a suggestion.
>
> The annotate feature is, admittedly, not designed as a graphical notation feature, but it does open up some interesting doors that might lead us that way. Attaching a little screen shot that might pique your interest. This was created using the annotate feature.
>
> --
> Joe Pearson | Product Designer | Sibelius
> www.sibelius.com, @joeapearson, joe.pearson@avid.com

Re the attachment to the above post (also attached here(--

WOW! why didnt you show this before? I would have signed right up!
Ive been looking for YEARS for a program that would allow me to draw 'tumbling tumbleweeds' on my score, in COLOR no less:):):)

Just joking..almost..no really, just kidding..kind of..LOL:)

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
Attachment Annotate tumbleweed jpg.jpg (132K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 12:47PM (edited 03 May 12:48PM)
Shall we try to get ths thread to 300 posts?

Then stop. It's all been said now. Next chapter starts when we see the next Sibelius release. Which we already know will be disappointing as far as notation goes. But we'll still probably want to say so, some of us several times.

And we can still dream of Daniel, coming like Sampson to slay Avid with the assbone of a Jew, or whatever it was. :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 01:00PM (edited 03 May 01:37PM)
>Shall we try to get ths thread to 300 posts?

Then stop. It's all been said now. Next chapter starts when we see the next Sibelius release. Which we already know will be disappointing as far as notation goes. But we'll still probably want to say so, some of us several times.

And we can still dream of Daniel, coming like Sampson to slay Avid with the assbone of a Jew, or whatever it was. :-)

>

Well Laurence, Im sure everyone is tired, and would like to see this end...but there are still unanswered questions, and opinions to be expressed...

Pls dont let those who might ask these questions and express these opinions feel its wrong to do so. Thanks so much.

We ALL look forward to an end to this--today actually starts the FOURTH straight week since it was first announced..and Im STILL not sure Avid has heard--actually *taken to heart* how its user base almost unanimously feels and has expressed...

and I cant help but ask why..

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 01:54PM
That's 232. Keep 'em coming!

Of course Avid have heard us. They've even sent in the PR department to attempt damage limitation. But they aren't going to change their Creative Suite pricing model just because some users - who weren't contributing revenue, and wanted to retain full privileges while continuing not to contribute - squealed.

If you do 10 short ripostes rather than one long one, we'll reach 300 faster :-)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 02:00PM
:):):) ok, heres MY contribution--233:)

And again, no doubt theyve heard us--but as I asked have they actually *taken it to heart*...

Remedial PR and BS arent responses I consider really worthwhile..

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 03:04PM
If "Taken to heart" means "Changed their minds about the whole new pricing model", no they haven't. And won't.

And people who keep banging their heads against brick walls just end up with funny-shaped heads.

234

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Claude Voit - 03 May 03:53PM
I agree to go to 300

--
SIB 7.5.1; Photoscore Ult.7.02; Win7 pro 64 sp1; 12gig ram; using Vectir as a Sib shortcuts remote on a Android tablet; a post made in 2014

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 04:05PM
>If "Taken to heart" means "Changed their minds about the whole new pricing model", no they haven't. And won't.

Well I wouldnt propose to speak for Avid, especially in the face of whats going on, and I dont think anyone else should.

This was Sam's Apr 30 response to this:

"Many thanks for all the feedback. I can tell you we are listening and are taking everything you’re saying on board. I can’t promise any changes to our plans right now but there’s no saying things won’t change in the future."

Which of course can be taken as pure PR speak, or that hes giving Avid a little wiggle room.


Lets see what *they* have to say about it.

Thanks Bob



--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 03 May 04:42PM
I don't believe Avid/Sibelius will drop their plans for this new model but hopefully they will adjust it some to not so severely punish us perpetual users who fall away from the plan for a while.
I believe it was Laurence who suggested this in a prior posting?
And, that is an area of the model that I believe they (Avid/Sibelius) will be open to implement some leniency.

--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.4.2c, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 03 May 05:41PM
What`s to think that Steinberg will be viewing all this - perhaps become attracted to Avid`s new stance, and think about revising their own marketing plans!?
--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 05:58PM
> What`s to think that Steinberg will be viewing all this - perhaps become attracted to Avid`s new stance, and think about revising their own marketing plans!?

But they've SAID they won't! :-) If they change policy, think of all those poor Yamaha executives who would have to perform Hara-Kiri.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 05:35PM
> Well I wouldnt propose to speak for Avid, especially in the face of whats going on, and I dont think anyone else should.


Indeed. And perhaps a gentle reminder, Bob M., that YOU are not the elected spokesperson for the Sibelius user community (whatever that is). A less punitive deal for "perpetual" users who miss a yearly payment just might be negotiated, but it's difficult to focus on this when the forums are dominated by your continual rants.

There. That should get us up to the 300 count!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 07:24PM (edited 03 May 07:43PM)
>Indeed. And perhaps a gentle reminder, Bob M., that YOU are not the elected spokesperson for the Sibelius user community (whatever that is). A less punitive deal for "perpetual" users who miss a yearly payment just might be negotiated, but it's difficult to focus on this when the forums are dominated by your continual rants.

There. That should get us up to the 300 count!
>

WOW, Laurence..just when it seemed you had FINALLY changed..you pull this. Youre back to your old ways, with a vengeance.

I dont know why I should be surprised, but simply am.
(At least here was no usual name calling..or was there?)

I have never once stated or felt myself to be or acted as --how did you put it--" the elected spokesperson for the Sibelius user community".

I speak for myself, and along with others, who are more than able,willing, caring and intelligent enough to express themselves, and have been doing so splendidly.

Since you feel I have somehow done this..please provide links..actual proof here, at Facebook, etc where I stated this. Thanks.

Fact is you cant, can you Laurence? And if you cant provide those links, Laurence..would you be man enough to say so and apologize here on forum?

I await those links..and btw this is the FIRST time anyone has said this..go figure it would be YOU.

The taking away of the punishment for falling of the plan isnt your idea as I recall--but for now, Ill let that go.

Finally as for rants, Ive seen MANY of YOUR rants, also here and on FB--so much so I actually emailed you this morning about this..about how your tone on the forum had changed, ect etc.

Im sorry to say but this has been mentioned before--and couldnt have been better exemplified what you keep insulting referring to "as the campaign"-Save Sibelius-that youre usually a fence sitter playing each side to your own advantage and to be so vocal as you have been againt this plan didnt seem to be in your character.

But you fooled me..this post IS your character, and I ll be careful NO to be fooled again.

I await proof of what youve said.

Thank Bob

PS and again, please dont suppose to speak for Avid, either..youre wrong about me, and you just might be wrong about them to.

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 07:29PM
>What`s to think that Steinberg will be viewing all this - perhaps become attracted to Avid`s new stance, and think about revising their own marketing plans!?



Hi Tony--Since theyve taken a public stance on it, it would probably be very hard to retreat from.

Pls see http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=72219&hilit=renting&start=25#p420517

And seeing how horribly the users here ave reacted to it, I would wonder if they would want Avids headaches!

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 07:38PM
>I don't believe Avid/Sibelius will drop their plans for this new model but hopefully they will adjust it some to not so severely punish us perpetual users who fall away from the plan for a while.
I believe it was Laurence who suggested this in a prior posting?
And, that is an area of the model that I believe they (Avid/Sibelius) will be open to implement some leniency.

Hi Ralph

I had suggested this here:

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=674454&groupid=3򤪖

At the time IIRC I hadnt heard this before--but anyone please correct me if Im wrong.

Thanks Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Ralph L. Bowers Jr. - 03 May 07:52PM
> >I don't believe Avid/Sibelius will drop their plans for this new model but hopefully they will adjust it some to not so severely punish us perpetual users who fall away from the plan for a while.
> I believe it was Laurence who suggested this in a prior posting?
> And, that is an area of the model that I believe they (Avid/Sibelius) will be open to implement some leniency.
>
> Hi Ralph
>
> I had suggested this here:
>
> http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=674454&groupid=3򤪖
>
> At the time IIRC I hadnt heard this before--but anyone please correct me if Im wrong.
>
> Thanks Bob
> --
> Bob Morabito
> Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Sorry Bob!

That's what happens when you get older..... sometimes we forget who said what and when they said it.


--
Sibelius 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5.1, Bob Zawalich plugins, NotePerformer 1.4.2c, dolet 6.4 (update 10-3-2014)

Finale 2010b,2011b,2012c, 2014d, TGTools pro, Patterson plugins, JW Plugins, GPO4, World Instruments
MuseScore 2 (seeing what's out there)
ProTools 9.5, Reaper
Notion 4, Notion 5 (bought but not installed), Progression, Progression 2, Progression 3

Windows XP Pro (32 bit); 2@ 7 Pro (64bit); 8.1 Pro (64 bit)/ 4-16GB Ram across four PC's

Pencil & Paper

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 08:01PM

> Sorry Bob!
>
> That's what happens when you get older..... sometimes we forget who said what and when they said it.

Hi Ralph--no need for an apology--and again if someone can show me where it was said sooner, I appreciate that.

And Ralph..about the getting older..it S-CKS!!:):)
(I'm 63)

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Chris Crawley - 03 May 07:40PM
I have said little so far about the topic of the thread.

However, I'm not only sad to see two respected members of the forum at loggerheads, but also disappointed that the effect of this will be to weaken what you two say. Some readers of this thread may well despair at the superficiality - for example, the use of the word rant. (It's moot point as to whether either Bob or Laurence have actually been ranting. Equally, whether or not Bob sees himself, or is seen by others, as a spokesman for other Sibelius users is hardly important.)

I really feel you should stop addressing each other, and commenting on each other, and direct your energies to more important matters.

Apart from anything else, this forum has a certain reputation to maintain, and the sight of two heavyweights slugging it out here is never going to be edifying.

--
Chris Crawley (horn-player and composer) using mainly Sibelius 6.2 (also Sibelius 7.1.3), Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit SP2, Intel Core 2 2.8GHz, 3GB RAM, Audiophile 192/DacMagic 100

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 07:51PM (edited 03 May 07:56PM)
(sorry the forum posted my edited reply as a separate reply--hence Im removing it here. Thanks)

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 07:54PM
Hi Chris..

Youre so very right..its EXACTLY how I feel, and its what Avid has been hoping for..but Im sorry I couldnt let Laurences post and accusation pass--"spokesman"--without asking for proof of this.

I have never ONCE stated or acted as, or felt myself to be the "spokesman..too many caring wonderful people are doing TOO good a job beautifully speaking for themselves.

Thanks for such a reasoned email. Its like a breath of fresh air.
And yes back to much more important matters.

Thanks Bob


--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Laurence Payne - 03 May 07:56PM
I think Bob's approach is counter-productive, and he's allowed to say he thinks mine is.

248. We can wrap this thread soon...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 08:03PM
>I think Bob's approach is counter-productive, and he's allowed to say he thinks mine is.

248. We can wrap this thread soon...
>

Please read Chris' EXCELLENT post above Laurence-

Thanks Bob

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Mike P. - 03 May 08:26PM
Like Chris Crawley I hope that the two of you (Bob Morabito and Lawrence Payne) can direct your energies to more important matters than slamming each other.

--
OS X 10.8.2, MacBook Air w. SSD, 1.7 GHz Intel Core i5 & 4 GB memory, Apogee Duet 2, Sibelius 7.5 incl. Sounds, Pianoteq 5

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 08:48PM (edited 03 May 08:50PM)
Hi Mike--as I said Chris couldnt have said it better.

Bob

PS One of the problems posting on forums is if someone insults you--name calling etc--or accuses you unfairly, many advocate the "no response" way of handling it. So it just stays there.

Others say "anything goes".

I think these things need to be addressed, and its very easy to criticize and chastise when one isnt a part of it, and its not so easy to keep turning the other cheek, especially if its a position one finds themselves very often in..

Again Chris couldnt have said it better.

Either way, we've already started a fourth week of this, and people are tired..tired of the posts, and tired of the plan.

Lets hope all of this is doing some good, and all we can do is keep trying.

I plan to, health permitting, continue trying to change this plan, and speaking up for myself, and I hope anyone else who feels that way continues also.

And for those who feels its been enough, I respect your position and speaking for myself thank you for whatever contributions you have made.

Thanks again Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Bob Morabito - 03 May 09:00PM
PS..Im SURE Mike Lyons-"the innkeeper"--will soon be posting to say "get a room you two":):)

--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Back to top | All threads
 
Re:
Posted by Hans Nel - 08 Jun 12:33PM
> >Shall we try to get ths thread to 300 posts?
>
> Then stop. It's all been said now. Next chapter starts when we see the next Sibelius release. Which we already know will be disappointing as far as notation goes. But we'll still probably want to say so, some of us several times.
>
> And we can still dream of Daniel, coming like Sampson to slay Avid with the assbone of a Jew, or whatever it was. :-)
>
> >
>
> Well Laurence,...and Im STILL not sure Avid has heard--actually *taken to heart* how its user base almost unanimously feels and has expressed...
>
> and I cant help but ask why..
>
> Thanks Bob
>
> --
> Bob Morabito
> Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
> Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD

Hey Bob, hope all is well with you.

I personally don't think you are speaking for the whole group here. We are basically hearing from only about six ardent users here. There are plenty who will just go ahead and support Avid.

I wonder, is there a way to create a poll to find out more accurately how the user base feel?

Best regards
Hans

--
Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card...64bi