Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 29 Mar 02:59PM Hide picture I am trying to change the standard drum set sounds to a more electronica-type of sound. (I'm hoping to try my hand at dubstep for a soundtrack I'm writing.) I have Sibelius Sounds and NotePerformer, although the latter doesn't appear to have much beyond the standard available. There are many excellent-looking sounds in the list, but I can't seem to hear any of them. If I go into the Edit Instruments/Edit Staff Type box to customize each individual pitch (which is a pain, by the way), Sibelius seems to ignore whatever new instruments I try. For instance, I've attached a screen shot that shows I've selected "Claps 2," but it just sounds like a wood block, as does anything else I pick. Is there a "how to" somewhere that shows how to create custom drum sets with different sounds? What I really need is some electronic bass and snare sounds. I don't have or know how to use a DAW, so I'm hoping there's a way to do this right in Sibelius. Thanks! Attachment Screen shot.png (367K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 29 Mar 04:03PM Hide picture For playback purposes, you do not have freedom of choice of what sounds you can configure into any given percussion staff via the drum-map. Inherited from the restrictions of MIDI and VST interfaces, Sibelius has a rule that any one percussion staff can have sounds configured from only a single sample library "patch" or "program". The following is taken from the 7.5 Reference page 188: "Note that you should not choose sounds from different programs within the same staff type, as Sibelius can only use a single drum program to play back all the sounds required by a given instrument." If you want percussion sounds from more than one program/patch in the sample library, then you must have more than one percussion staff, each being configured to bear the sounds from just one program/patch. To solve this problem, you need to know what percussion programs/patches exist in the Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library (this is not the same as what list of percussion staves is supported by Sibelius, the notation application, in its instrument lists and SoundIDs), and which program/patch supports which sound samples. This information can be gleaned from the Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library specification, at: http://hub.sibelius.com/download/documentation/pdfs/sibelius712-sounds-en.pdf -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 29 Mar 10:06PM Hide picture Thanks, Robin. Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. Here's what I have done: 1. Create a new score with "Drum set (Electronica)" selected as an instrument. 2. Go to Play/Configuration and select Sibelius 7 Sounds. (My other choices are NotePerformer and General MIDI.) 3. Go to Home/Instruments/Edit Instruments, select Rock and Pop Instruments/Percussion and Drums/Drum Set (Electronica), and then hit Edit Instrument. 4. In the next dialog, click Edit Staff Type. I can now select individual pitches on the sample staff and click "Choose Sound" to change them. The default "best sound" for E4 is "unpitched.drum.very low.kick drum.electronic.2," but it just sounds like a basic bass drum kick. If I click "Choose Sound," under Sibelius 7 Sounds, I chose the 808 Drive Kit based on that chart you linked to above. It has a sound called "Tight Kick 2," which I'd like to try out, but even when I select it, nothing changes in the sound. What am I doing wrong? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 29 Mar 10:23PM Hide picture Which program/patch are you trying to take samples from? You need to ensure that *every* sound defined in the drum-map instrument definition comes from that program/patch. Not just one. Otherwise, Sibelius will choose the program/patch in the sample library that best matches the majority of SoundIDs in the drum map, and that best match probably won't include the single sound that you want. But, more seriously, the Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library does not have any sound sample which is an exact match for "unpitched.drum.very low.kick drum.electronic.2". The next best match is probably just a plain bass drum kick, as you hear. Just because Sibelius (the notation application) has instrument definitions for all sorts of Sound IDs, it does not carry any implication that any particular sample library will have sound samples for that Sound ID. There is no sound in the Sibelius 7 Sample library that has the word "electronic" in its SoundID. -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 29 Mar 10:37PM Hide picture That does make some sense. I am very new at this and don't understand MIDI very well. When you say program/patch, would that just be Sibelius 7 Sounds? I did download the S7S Library (per a tutorial video I found in the document you shared), and I was able to get some good sounds using the downloadable "sampling" file. I don't know how to get that configuration to work in my own scores, though. I saved a new configuration called "S7S Library," but it doesn't bring up the percussion sets that I need unless I'm using the "sampling" file. (It's attached -- called S7S_Library_7.1.2, and is referenced in this video: http://www.thewritescore.com/video/s7s-library-sampling-the-sounds/ Attachment S7S_Library_7.1.2.sib (89K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 29 Mar 10:57PM Hide picture Do not use the demonstration "S7S Library" soundset for the playback of scores: use it only in accordance with the instructions included with it for the manual auditioning of sounds from the Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library. Amongst other things, the "S7S Library" does not implement any drum-maps, as you have found. The "S7S Library" is only a Sibelius soundset file, not a sample library in itself: it uses the normal Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library as its source of sampled sounds. Each entry in the "Sibelius 7 Sounds User Guide" is a "program", or "patch", according to your choice of language. For instance "Afrocuban Percussion Kit" is one "program", or "patch". -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 29 Mar 11:07PM Hide picture So, is there any way to transfer those lovely demo sounds into a new score for playback? As it stands, it seems no matter which percussion patch I use, they all sound the same and have the same configuration for instruments assigned to pitches, and I can't change them to anything else. Do I need to purchase another set of sounds or something? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 29 Mar 11:29PM Hide picture No, no need to purchase anything, you have all those lovely sounds in your existing Sibelius 7 Sounds sample library. You just need to configure a drum-map correctly to get them into a score. Every sound defined in a single drum-map must be taken from the same single program/patch. If Sibelius Player does not automatically choose the program/patch you wish to use for a given staff, you can force a selection manually in the Sibelius Mixer. -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 29 Mar 11:38PM Hide picture Cool! OK, are you referring to the mixer in the attached screen shot? If so, and if I've loaded the configuration correctly, all I have to choose from is Sibelius Player in the top drop-down, and all that comes up in the bottom one is "Auto." Is there another setting I need to change? Attachment Screen shot.png (346K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Mike Lyons - 30 Mar 07:20AM Hide picture -- 1.6GHz Intel i7 Quad core, Win 7 Pro (x64), 8GB, 7TB HDD, Scarlett 6i6, Sib 6.2, 7.1.3, 7.5 EWQLSO Plat, Miroslav Phil, NotePerformer, Harmony Asst, EWQLSC, GPO, COMB2 Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Laurence Payne - 30 Mar 07:58AM Hide picture A Drum Set can only draw upon a single patch. But your score can contain more than one Drum Set, each on its own stave. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 30 Mar 08:32PM Hide picture Makes sense, but as per the screen shot above, my only option in the Mixer window is "Auto." Is there somewhere else I should be going to change the patch? Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 01 Apr 09:04AM Hide picture > my only option in the Mixer window is "Auto." What "Playback Configuration" do you have selected? Perhaps it would be helpful if you attached the .sib score file that is doing this, so that we can see what is going on. Also, attach a screen-shot of Sibelius's "Playback Devices" dialogue window. -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 02 Apr 12:27AM Hide picture Thanks for your patience with me, folks...much appreciated... I can generally select NotePerformer, various Sibelius 7 Sounds (regular, Chamber, Jazz, or Lite), or General MIDI. Changing that doesn't change the instruments I can select in the Add or Remove Instruments dialog, but does provide different sets in the Mixer. I've attached a screen shot of Playback Devices. Attachment Screen shot.png (302K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 02 Apr 12:27AM Hide picture Screen Shot 2 shows a sudden change that I never had before...it only showed "Auto" previously, but now it's got a group of Sibelius Sounds drum set options. Is this what you've all been trying to get me to find, at long last?!? Attachment Screen shot 2.png (340K) Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 02 Apr 09:11AM Hide picture That's correct. If Sibelius does not automatically choose the correct percussion patch (based on the majority best-match of the SoundIDs defined in the drum-map in the Instrument Definition), then you can force a choice in the Mixer. -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Scott Brownlee - 02 Apr 11:09AM Hide picture Thanks again very much for all the help. I don't know why those choices weren't showing up before, but if I click enough buttons, things start to happen. Much appreciated. Back to top | All threads

Re: Sib. 7.5: Drum set sounds Posted by Robin Walker - 02 Apr 11:28AM Hide picture I think you might have to play at least one note of the score before all these options become available. -- Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB. Back to top | All threads