'Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5'

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Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+... - sven, 23 Feb 01:00PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 01:54PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 02:39PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 03:43PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 04:05PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 05:12PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 05:45PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 05:57PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 06:40PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 06:50PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 06:59PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 24 Feb 12:04AM

Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 01:00PM (edited 23 Feb 02:52PM)
Hello,

I am using EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Platinum in Sibelius 7.5. (Also I am using the soundset from the Soundset Project.)
Please see screenshot attached.
Some special articulations need a line instruction, combined with a text instruction.

For example, I am trying to use the 6FH cluster gliss up sound working in my score. Therefore I have loaded the 6FH clstr gliss up.ewi sound in play, selected the sound in the sound settings and saved it. (because it is not included in the master KS) All this I show in the screenshot.
In the score, this articulation would need the line instruction 'glissando' (L), combined with the text instruction 'cluster' (T). See screeshot.

Unfortunately it doesn't work. All I hear is the normal cluster sound, as if the line instruction wouldn't be there at all. The combination text and line are not working. I do not understand what I'm doing wrong.

When I go to the play instance and try the 6FH clstr gliss up.ewi manually, by hitting its software keyboard, I can hear the sound. So this means it is loaded.
But it doesn't work in my score.

Is there anyone can help me out with that?

Thanks in advance!

Best regards, Sven

update: changed the screenshot
Attachment Schermafbeelding 2015-02-23 om 15.32.48.png (792K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Feb 01:54PM
I think we are going to need to analyse the Sibelius .sib score file itself, rather than just screen-shots.

Also, in the screen-shot, we cannot quite see the complete SoundID allocated to "6FH clstr gliss up" on channel 9 of the Manual SoundSet.

Another issue is that I am not sure how well Sibelius recognises a gliss line that does not terminate on a note.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 02:39PM (edited 23 Feb 02:46PM)
Hi Robin, thanks for your answer. Sorry about the screenshot, attached a new one with the sound id...as also a sib. file.
In de screenshot you can also see the pdf from the soundset project where you can see that a text + line instructions is needed for the sound 6FH clstr gliss up . As the document is about EWQLSO in sibelius, it think should work.

In the sib file, I did a bend first, which also had to be loaded separately, then a gliss and a cluster..they work fine. the problem is with the last note in the score which is an attempt for a cluster gliss up.

Thanks!
Attachments Schermafbeelding 2015-02-23 om 15.32.48.png (792K), art prob.sib (55K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Feb 03:43PM
In the score, the Playback Dictionary defines the staff text "cluster" as adding the string "clusters" (spelt in the plural) to the SoundID.

But in your Manual SoundSet you have used "cluster" (spelt in the singular).

One or the other of these spellings is wrong. Without access to the SoundSetProject soundset file and documentation, I cannot tell which is correct.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 04:05PM (edited 23 Feb 05:08PM)
I took a look in the soundset xml file. I think i've found the part(s) you're looking for? I am a dummy with these things you know... :-) please see screenshots of the code.

In this link you may find the soundset user manual:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7j24v2ed8ehqpmn/EWQLSO%20Sound%20Set%20User%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

Thanks :-)
Attachments Schermafbeelding 2015-02-23 om 17.09.00.png (40K), Schermafbeelding 2015-02-23 om 17.15.12.png (30K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Feb 05:12PM
Even in the first screen-shot, there is no consistency between singular and plural forms of cluster.

But the second screen-shot pretty clearly uses the singular form for defining the Patch: in which case the Playback Dictionary definition might be wrong. Could you try editing the Playback Dictionary entry for staff text "cluster" to be +cluster rather than +clusters and see whether the articulation trial score now works for you?

If that works, we might be looking at a SoundSetProject bug.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 05:45PM
I tried it, but it doesn't work. it was a good idea though :-) The only difference is that instead of playing the regular cluster sound, which was also not the correct sound , it plays back the glissando now. (So the text instruction seems to be dominant to the line instruction....but the combination line+text doesn't work.)

Also in the library I found two words in staff text: cluster and clusters..and they both use the sound id '+clusters'. So i tried to type cluster or clusters..they both play back the cluster sound..so they do exactly the same thing. I don't know if that is relevant.

I noticed that some other line+text combinations work as long as the the desired sound-
id was included in the Master KS file (I don't know if that is always true).
But for the bend instruction (text only) for example, which is also NOT included in the Master KS file, it works just fine after typing 'bend' in the score.

this is a hard one hey :-)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Feb 05:57PM
If you cannot get the Technique Text plus Line type trigger to work, another possibility is to insert an Instrument Change to the "6FH clstr gliss up" instrument just before the note where you need it, and revert to the normal instrument immediately afterwards.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 06:40PM
yes, i see where you're going, but this is not an instrument that can be loaded separately. it is a patch that must be loaded in the normal 6FH instrument, so it seems. screenshot.

Thanks very much for you answers so far :-)

Attachment Schermafbeelding 2015-02-23 om 19.41.54.png (66K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Feb 06:50PM
You can make new instrument definitions. In this case, you need to make an instrument definition with SoundID "brass.horns.french horn.ensemble.glissando.6 players.cluster.ewso" and a unique instrument name of your choice.

Then, in the score, click the note where you want this sound, then shift-click it to make a passage selection (pale blue) of just that note. With that passage selection still live, insert an instrument change to your newly defined instrument (turn off the announcements), and Sibelius will change instrument for that one note, and then revert to the existing instrument afterwards.

It's not pretty, but it might work. For better advice, maybe seek support from the SoundSetProject.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 23 Feb 06:59PM
I do not know how to do that. I just putted Jonathan from the soundest project on it.
I'll post the outcome.

thanks!
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+line instruction - EWQLSO Platinum in Sibelius 7.5
Posted by sven - 24 Feb 12:04AM
OK, we found a workaround! Jonathan actually..ofcourse :-)

I just added a new word in the dictionary, named it 'clustergliss' and referred to the sound ID '+clusters.6 players.up'. In this case I use only the text instruction 'clustergliss' in the score and NO glissando line instruction. It works!

Thanks for thinking with me Robin! Goodnight!

Best regards, Sven
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using text+... - sven, 23 Feb 01:00PM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 01:54PM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 02:39PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 03:43PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 04:05PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 05:12PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 05:45PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 05:57PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 06:40PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - Robin Walker, 23 Feb 06:50PM
                                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 23 Feb 06:59PM
                                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Problem with articulation using t... - sven, 24 Feb 12:04AM