I am being asked to revisit some previous files I created. The customer wants me to double the note values for some pieces.
I run the plugin and add a bar at the end of the existing file and paste in the new double-values version. But it fails to bring over the underlay (lyrics).
The lyrics took just as much (or even more) time to add the first time round. I have tried filtering for the lyrics on the original and pasting into the new version, but this is just a mess.
Do I have to redo all the lyrics?
Cheers,
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Are you using the Double Note Values function on the Note Input tab? Did you notice the "Copy all objects..." option? I just tested, and lyrics were included OK.
The plugin creates a new file. I'm not sure why you're pasting into the end of the existing one?
copies the values to the clipboard so you can paste them anywhere, rather than opening a new score, which you may find (as I do) more efficient. I think it already ships with Sibelius 7 and 7.5
When I select a passage, I don't get any window offering choices. The plugin just runs. I assumed it put the result onto the clipboard. So, for ease, I just add it to the end of the existing score. I've just done it again with same result, no underlay.
Where do I get access to options?
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Copy Double and Copy Halve Note Values is documented as only copying notes not text.(see below). It does not ship with Sibelius.
It was too much work to get all the text and lyrics and lines to line up with the notes, so the plugin just deals with the notes, which is its purpose. The other stuff was not part of the mission statement :)
******************************************
Copy Double and Copy Halve Note Values
...
Copy Double Note Values and Copy Halve Note Values are variants of the shipping plugins Double Note Values and Halve Note Values. These plugins double or halve the durations of the selected notes, then put their results into the clipboard, rather than into a separate score. You can then paste the results into any score with the normal Paste command.
There are several things to note:
1. There will be no dialog. You can tell when it is finished when the progress bar and Stop button go away. Do not try to paste until that happens.
2. Only notes will be copied (no text or other bar objects). No system objects will be copied, even if you start with a system (double box) selection, and bars will never be inserted - notes will always flow into the destination bars.
--
Bob
An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2014.
Huh - I was referring to the plugin Derek's link pointed to, but indeed the original Double Note Values plugin, which ships with Sibelius looks like it will handle text, if not lines.
Double Notes Values will create a separate score, which you can cut and paste out of back to the original score.
From a quick look, it looks to handle lyrics OK, even with extension lines. If I were using it to copy lyrics I would check any extensions and melismas to make sure they get moved appropriately.
I rewrite Double Note Values at one point, and don't remember doing a lot with lyrics, but if it works, that's great.
Thanks for finding it, Laurence.
--
Bob
An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2014.
Thanks for your input, but I'm still not getting that initial dialog.
I have a vague recollection of having to delve into User Plugins when there was a problem with both Doible and Halve between Sibelius versions. Even though I'm choosing this from the Note Input tab, I suspect I'm calling the one Bob refers to.
I need to get my machine to call the shipping plugin that Laurence refers to.
It's only just past half-six in the morning here, so I'll wait until I'm fully awake and coffeed up before delving further.
Thanks,
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Delving a little deeper, both Double and Halve are marked as (user copy). I seem to remember installing these on the advice of someone on this forum.
I guess I need to remove these user copies and revert back to shipping. What is the safest way for me to do this (I'm not overly techinically minded, but can follow instructions well).
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
>Delving a little deeper, both Double and Halve are marked as (user copy). I seem to remember installing these on the advice of someone on this forum.
I guess I need to remove these user copies and revert back to shipping. What is the safest way for me to do this (I'm not overly techinically minded, but can follow instructions well).
I attach a copy of the Edit Plug-ins Window>Transformations.
When I run the user copy, there is no window dialogue, just the very brief progress window which closes when finished. I am convinced this is the one the Bob Z. was referring to.
So I await your final go-ahead to Unload the user copies, but then I need to ensure that the ones that shipped with Sib.7.5.1 are put in their place.
Many thanks for your help with this,
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
>I am convinced this is the one the Bob Z. was referring to.
Yes--these plugins--the COPY Double/Halve Note Values do not give you a dialogue window, or options, or produce a separate score as do the Double/Halve Note Values plugins. Their result is copied to the clipboard, and just pasted.
They are different plugins.
I expected to see, in your grab, the Double/Halve Note Value plugins, AND the Copy Double Halve Note Value plugins..at which point I would simply have said to just unload the Copy ones.
So I cant be sure if by unloading them the shipping plugins would be available to you.. you can wait until Bob Z weighs in on this, or try unloading them, and see if the Double/Halve Note value plugins become available to you.
If not, Id imagine you could simply reload them.
Thanks Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
> Thanks again, Bob.
>
> I have Unloaded the two Copy Double/Halve Note Values.
>
> Now, when I go to ribbon Note Input you will see that the Halve has greyed out; and when I click on the Double then nothing happens.
>
> I presume from this that I have successfully unloaded the Copy ones, but that Sibelius hasn't found the shipping ones.
>
> When I go to File>Plugins>Install, neither of these two is listed, so I can't re-instal from there.
>
> You are right: let's wait for Bob Z. to chip in (hopefully).
>
>
> Cheers,
> JohnF
Hi John--
Yes lets have Bob Z weigh in on this. The only possible thing I could suggest trying is to restart Sib, and see if that straightens it out.
Youre welcome John--I wish I had been able to straighten this out for you.
Thanks Bob
>
>
> --
> Music Editor / Engraver
> Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
> MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
To un-install previously installed user plugins, do this:
- ensure Sibelius 7.5 is fully quit (restart Mac OS if unsure);
- in the Finder, hold down the Option key while pulling down the "Go" menu, and select "Library";
- in this Library folder, open folder "Application Support";
- in this "Application Support" folder, open folder "Avid";
- in this "Avid" folder, open folder "Sibelius 7.5";
- in this "Sibelius 7.5" folder, open folder "Plugins";
- in this "Plugins" folder, open folder "Transformations";
- in this "Transformations" folder, drag unwanted plugins to the trash.
- now launch Sibelius 7.5.
Caution: do not use Spotlight or any search function to locate any of the above items: follow the path described.
--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
I had first suggested that in my reply, but then saw the Unload/Reload and Delete choices in the File Tab>Plugins> Edit Plugins dialogue, and changed it
Why would manually deleting them be better?
Thanks Bob
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
I know the manual delete works. In the case of user plugin names duplicating those of system plugins, I do not know what happens when "Unload" is used (does Unload of a User Plugin re-load the shipping plugin of the same name?). If using Delete, is there any risk that the shipping plug-in of the same name gets deleted? If Unload is used, how long is it effective for - just the current session?
I would need to do some controlled experiments first, then I'll come back with some answers.
--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
It might be worthwhile now that John has unloaded them, and we saw the results, to check in the Transformation plugin folder found by the following, and see if the Copy Double/Halve note value plugins are there--
and if so, to consider removing them, again as per the instructions given below, by Robin.
Again lets let Bob Z weigh in on this.
Thanks Bob
>
- ensure Sibelius 7.5 is fully quit (restart Mac OS if unsure);
- in the Finder, hold down the Option key while pulling down the "Go" menu, and select "Library";
- in this Library folder, open folder "Application Support";
- in this "Application Support" folder, open folder "Avid";
- in this "Avid" folder, open folder "Sibelius 7.5";
- in this "Sibelius 7.5" folder, open folder "Plugins";
- in this "Plugins" folder, open folder "Transformations";
- in this "Transformations" folder, drag unwanted plugins to the trash.
- now launch Sibelius 7.5.
>
--
Bob Morabito
Sib 5.2.5, 6.2, 7.1.3. 7.5.1
Mac OS 10.9.5 iMac 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD
I followed your instructions (to the letter). I found both Double and Halve, and also Copy Double and Copy Halve in the Finder (see attachment).
With Sibelius not running, I trashed the Copy versions and restarted Sibelius. The "Copy" (user copy) versions seem to have reinstalled (see attachment).
There is a thread from 1 September 2011 which on re-reading I get rather lost in, but there was definitely a bug in these plug-ins between Sib versions 6 and 7, and Bob Z. may remember it. A workaround was suggested which I think I did.
All I would like now is to have a version of these plugins that will also deal correctly with the underlay (lyrics), and I believe the shipping ones will; yet I now don't appear to be able to get the shipping ones back in place.
Ho,hum,
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
I suggest that you trash *all* the previously installed plug-ins in the user-library "Transformations" folder (located as previously described).
One of the issues that is creating confusion is that the names of plugins as displayed inside Sibelius are not necessarily the same as the names of the plugin files in the file system folders.
So, deleting all the files found in the user-library "Transformations" folder in the user library should allow Sibelius to fall back to the shipping plugins of the same internal names, whatever the external file-system names are.
--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
[Apologies for some of the delays; today is the day that I am moving over to a new ISP, so my line keeps going down.]
Yes, Robin, that's done it.
Thanks for your time, and for both Bobs and for Laurence. I can now run the Double plugin and get the dialogue box to choose system objects. The underlay has come over, too, with just a little bit of tidying up to do.
Cheers,
JohnF
--
Music Editor / Engraver
Sib.v.7.5.1; user since Acorn Sib7; Photoscore Ultimate 7.0.2; GPO4.02
MacOS X Yosemite 10.10; iMac 4 GHz Intel Core i7; 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
> I would need to do some controlled experiments first, then I'll come back with some answers.
Experiment in the case of these two specific plug-ins (Double Note Values and Halve Note Values) suggests:
- "Unload" on a user copy does not allow the shipping version of the same name to re-appear;
- "Delete" on a user copy deletes the user copy and allows the shipping version of the same name to re-appear;
- Sibelius refuses to delete any shipping plug-in, so it is safe to delete user plugins without worrying about shipping versions of the same name.
These plug-ins are somewhat different to normal plug-ins, as they are called directly from the ribbon interface, and not from plug-in menus, so lessons learnt in respect of these two might not apply more generally. There is a further complication in that "Halve Note Values" calls the "Double Note Values" plug-in, and some of the checks for that are coded in terms of file-system name for the plugin file, rather than the menu name of the plugin.
There appears to be a slight bug in Sibelius in that if one does "Unload" followed by "Reload" on the shipping "Double Note Value" plugin, the "Double Note Value" button on the ribbon remains inoperative until the next Sibelius session.
--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1 4GB, Windows 8.1 64-bit 16GB.
User plugins should never be installed into the Transformations folder. They just disappear. It is a quirk of the "More" submenu in Transformations.
Once past this, never bother with Unload. It just removes the plugin from memory and does nothing to the files. Sibelius reads plugins into memory at startup, and as I recall from past experiments, Unload and Reload really do nothing useful, so I would say leave them alone.
If you have user plugins (which will say "user copy" in the plugin editor, you can delete the with the Delete command in the plugin editor, and this could well be the safest way to delete user copies of plugins. As Robin clearly points out, Delete will not mess with the actual shipping plugin files so you should not get in trouble using the Delete command.
Once you find the appropriate subfolder, you can just delete files from the user subfolders as needed.
Sibelius will not recognize that you have done this until you restart it. It is a good idea to restart Sibelius after doing anything that involves deleting plugins.
User plugins are either plugins that you have installed from the download page or another source, or edited copies of shipping plugins.
If you tell the plugin editor to edit a shipping plugin, it makes a copy of that plugin and puts it into the folder in your user plugins folder that corresponds to the folder in the shipping plugins folders. Sibelius will then run the user plugin rather than the shipping plugin as long as the user copy exists. As Robin says, if you delete a user copy of a shipping plugin, Sibelius will run the shipping version again.
Most people should *never* have user copies of shipping plugins. If you are making a modification to one of them and know what you are doing, it is fine to have copies. But if you just have a user copy of a shipping plugin around that is not modified, it hangs around even if Sibelius is updated, and you will not access bug fixes and improvements.
*Never* edit the plugin files that ship with Sibelius. If you need to modify one of these, make a user copy in the plugin editor. But I suspect most users will never have a need to do this.
I actually do not know what happens if you edit one of the plugins that live in the shipping Transformations folder, like Double Note Values. The user Transformations folder is the Saragossa Sea of plugins, and I strongly recommentd not doing that.
Hope your mess did finally get sorted out!
--
Bob
An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2014.
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