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Why in my screenshot is the low B natural in the harp turned red? It's the equivalent of C flat (which also turns red). Any harp note can be spelled as flat, natural or sharp, and this note is not only on the instrument, but also plays back correctly.

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Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. M-Box. HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

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Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 09 Dec 09:58AM

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P.S.
I have changed the lowest harp note from C1 to B0 using edit instrumenst, but it should be there by default.

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Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. M-Box. HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Philip Sparke - 09 Dec 01:40PM

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Technically speaking the harp doesn't have this low B (as there is no low B string) so I can understand why Sib colours that red. It can of course be played as a C flat (and strictly should be notated that way as harpists read 'the string' not the note) but I don't see why Sib colours the Cb red, unless the note colours can't distinguish between homophones.

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Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Laurence Payne - 09 Dec 01:43PM

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I think we can just put this down as what is technically called a "mistake", can't we? It might confuse an inexperienced orchestrator I suppose. As Derek says, it's easy to fix.

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Philip Sparke - 09 Dec 01:45PM

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BTW in Sib 6 the first red note is Bb, so the defined range was changed for some reason in 7

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Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by James Fletcher - 09 Dec 03:43PM

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I'm not a harpist, but isn't it true that harp pedals don't operate bottom C (or the D above): the player just tunes those two strings as approprate before starting. So you can have bottom B, but you'll have to forego C if you do. And that will be why Cb is shown in red.
Any concert harpists out there?

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James
Sib 6.2.0; Intel i7; Windows 7 Home Premium

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Philip Sparke - 09 Dec 03:55PM

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DID NOT KNOW THAT! Yes, you are quite right. This also applies to the top G, apparently. Thanks goodness I've never gone to such extremes........

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Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Laurence Payne - 09 Dec 04:03PM

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I'd always assumed a harpist tuned the bottom strings to Cb, Db by default. But quite likely they don't, so the warning may be useful.

Just to muddy the waters further, my Sibelius 7.5 includes the low B in the permissible range, the first red note is Bb.

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 09 Dec 04:32PM

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I'm glad I started this thread. I was not aware that those three strings were not attached to the pedal mechanisms and although I've often written the low notes, no harpist has ever commented to me that they are not retunable during a performance.

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Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 5 TB hard disks (of which 3 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.5.1, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library & Konzerthaus Organ. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. M-Box. HP A3 8150 DN with duplex

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Adrian Drover - 09 Dec 05:02PM (edited 09 Dec 05:08PM)

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Hah! Seems that Sib doesn't recognize Cb in its instrument ranges, nor Fb, nor E#, nor B#. Obviously the programmer is not a harpist, or student of orchestration, or just protecting us from note spelling that make you think. Both Piston and Forsyth show the lowest harp note as Cb.

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 10 Dec 12:25PM

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Hang on tho`. If the text books show this as Cb, it technically can`t be called Cb if it can`t be immediately retuned to C nat during performance. It is therefore practically speaking a B, no matter what the key maybe, tho` I expect the harpists` themselves will curmudgeonly tell you that in the key of C it`s a Cb.

Geddit? It`s the way I tell`em . . . .

--
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Philip Sparke - 10 Dec 01:26PM

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> Hang on tho`. If the text books show this as Cb, it technically can`t be called Cb if it can`t be immediately retuned to C nat during performance. It is therefore practically speaking a B, no matter what the key maybe, tho` I expect the harpists` themselves will curmudgeonly tell you that in the key of C it`s a Cb.
>
> Geddit? It`s the way I tell`em . . . .
>
> --
> http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Whether it's a B or a Cb surely depends on the context. We don't know the context of Derek's bar, but if it is an isolated arpeggio, then harp niceties suggest it should be written as Cbs and Gbs, as the longer string resonates better. In that case I would think it should also be notated as a Cb.

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Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 7.0.2 Windows 7, 3.04GHz i7-2600K 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
www.philipsparke.com

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 10 Dec 01:47PM

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Curmudgeonly - have it your own way :)

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http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 Dec 05:33PM

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Well, it seems that the harp is able to play Cb1, but not B0.

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes
Posted by Tony Wakefield - 11 Dec 12:26PM

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One would hope that the harpist does not suffer from B0. Skaila Kanga never did in my experience . . . .

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http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/tonywakefield

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Derek Bourgeois, 09 Dec 09:47AM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Derek Bourgeois, 09 Dec 09:58AM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Philip Sparke, 09 Dec 01:40PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Laurence Payne, 09 Dec 01:43PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Philip Sparke, 09 Dec 01:45PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - James Fletcher, 09 Dec 03:43PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Philip Sparke, 09 Dec 03:55PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Laurence Payne, 09 Dec 04:03PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Derek Bourgeois, 09 Dec 04:32PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Adrian Drover, 09 Dec 05:02PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Tony Wakefield, 10 Dec 12:25PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Philip Sparke, 10 Dec 01:26PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Tony Wakefield, 10 Dec 01:47PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Adrian Drover, 10 Dec 05:33PM

Re: Sib. 7.5: Harp Bass notes - Tony Wakefield, 11 Dec 12:26PM