'Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato'

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Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 22 Nov 11:34AM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 11:55AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 22 Nov 12:06PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 03:22PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 03:49PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 23 Nov 04:25PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 05:28PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 23 Nov 06:28PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 07:41PM

Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by CyrilP - 22 Nov 11:34AM
Hi everybody,

I need to call by using program change a new sound when I add an accent, staccato ... or others on my score (see image)
Into the dictionary, I am able to call a program change on the staff text section, but in the articulations we only change de sound id.

How can I call a program change when I use Accent, Staccato ...
Exactly the same for 16 tremolos ...

I tried to add Accent into the staff texte ... but without any success

Thanks to help me ...

Regards
Attachment Capture d’écran 2014-11-22 à 12.32.16.png (7K)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Nov 11:55AM
What player is in use?

What sound sample library is that player playing from?

Do you have a Sibelius soundset file for that library/player combination?

With some players/libraries, articulation changes are achieved with keyswitches rather than program changes, but that's a question of understanding the specification of the player and sample library.

If, alternatively, you use a Manual Soundset within Sibelius, you can capture the SoundID changes generated by the dictionary for articulations, and convert them into Program changes in the Manual Soundset.

A Sibelius soundset file would automate all of this.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by CyrilP - 22 Nov 12:06PM
Thank you to answer me Robin :)
I am using kontakt
I prefer don't use soundset file ... I had a bad experience with that !!
You right, it is possible to use keyswitches with my library to do that but I organized my dictionary for using it with several sounds libraries. Then, for all sounds library, I prefer to call change program (if it is possible of course ;) )
Can you detail how can I convert a sound id to a program change please ? How can I capture the soundID ?
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by Robin Walker - 22 Nov 03:22PM
You configure a Manual Soundset to match Sibelius SoundIDs with MIDI channel numbers, so that the numbers match the internal configuration of the player you have. You would assign different channels for the plain sound and for each articulation.

Manual Soundsets are discussed within section 6.2 of the Sibelius 7.5 Reference.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by CyrilP - 23 Nov 03:49PM
It not seems a good way to call a specific sound for an articulation ... or I didn't understand the manual !

I need to call a specific sound by using program change (why not a channel change, but I prefer a program change), is it possible to do that ?
In the dictionary > Articulation, I can only add the sound id +staccato (for instance).
I don't understand how can I root this sound id to the specific sound !!

I am sorry, I need to do that ... I tried to set a new manual sound set, Channel 1 -> Programme name -> Cello, I send a program change ... it is ok, but where can I give the program change for the +staccato ???

thanks in advance to help me
Have a good sunday ;)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Nov 04:25PM (edited 23 Nov 04:26PM)
Cyril, I'm not certain how you reached your current position. Is there some good reason why you are trying to use Sibelius in the most difficult and unnatural way possible? Because it would help us to understand what those reasons are that led you to be attempting this, in case there is a more elegant and natural solution in the Sibelius world. Sibelius is designed to hide all these MIDI operations from the user, so that the user can concentrate on the music notation without worrying about arcane MIDI commands. Trying to make Sibelius send MIDI commands explicitly is not a natural thing to do in the Sibelius world.

If you positively want to write MIDI commands, then maybe it is possible that Sibelius is not the best application to be using, and maybe you should think about using a DAW.

As far as I am aware, it is not possible to make Sibelius send MIDI program changes directly from an articulation dictionary entry. When Sibelius is used with a proper pre-compiled soundset, articulations are communicated to the player with keyswitches, not with program changes. So you should investigate the specification of whatever sample library you are using (you have not yet told us what sample library you are using) and see whether you can use keyswitches to effect articulations. If so, you can write the keyswitches as hidden notes in the instrument staff at the relevant position.

To answer your question above, please see the section of the Sibelius 7.5 Reference concerning Manual Sound Sets (within section 6.2). The reference explains how you can use Manual Sound Sets to send MIDI Program Changes, if needed.

Have you checked to see whether there is a proper pre-compiled Sibelius sound set file available for your sample library? This would make the whole process much easier, and Sibelius would play your music automatically, articulations and all.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by CyrilP - 23 Nov 05:28PM
I read the manual ;)
I found why I didn't succeed to send a program changes for a specific sound id.

if I am not wrong, you said I have to use keyswitches, write notes and hide its. For me, it is a bad solution (I am sorry ;) ) ... I tried to write a note and hide, I tried to had a midi control like ~N12,0 ; ~O12,0 for instance ... I don't want that. I want to write an articulation, and call directly the perfect sound. Is there another solution to use keyswitches ??

I tried to used program changes only because it is possible to use it from the staff texte (into the dictionary). For instance, I selected "nat." and I added the program changes with the good number .... really easy, really perfect ... :)
But, unfortunately, it is not possible to do that from the articulation ... and, I don't know why ?
Also, It is a good thing for me to use program change, because when I load the complet strings, I load my strings.fxp into kontakt. Into the kontakt I created 5 instruments banks.
Bank number 1 is Violin I, bank number 2 Violon II etc ... Really easy for load the complete strings section.
I did the same thing for "tremolo" .. Program changes 2
pizzicato program change 3
etc ...
That's perfect :) and realy easy :)
But, not possible to use it for Articulation :( :(

Do you see what I mean ?

I am using spitfire, there is not soundset for that, to my knowledge !

Thanks to take time Robin ;)
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by Robin Walker - 23 Nov 06:28PM
Sorry, you've reached the limit of my experience on this topic.

Maybe some other forum reader who is accustomed to using VSTs without soundsets will be along to advise you.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato
Posted by CyrilP - 23 Nov 07:41PM (edited 24 Nov 09:08AM)
It is pity ;)
I hope another person can help me ;)

Good luck Robin ;)
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 22 Nov 11:34AM
     Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 11:55AM
         Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 22 Nov 12:06PM
             Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 22 Nov 03:22PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 03:49PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 23 Nov 04:25PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 05:28PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - Robin Walker, 23 Nov 06:28PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.5: Dictionary : Accent, Staccato - CyrilP, 23 Nov 07:41PM