'Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running'

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Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is... - Patrick O'Keefe, 26 Jul 12:06AM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 26 Jul 10:56AM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 27 Jul 11:39AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 27 Jul 06:25PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 27 Jul 07:08PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 27 Jul 08:20PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 29 Jul 04:28AM

Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 26 Jul 12:06AM
Here's an odd problem. Sibelius 7.1.3 startup hangs if I have Sib 7.5 or Finale running. If I stop Finale, wait for Sibelius to initialize, and restart Finale, all is well. (I assume the same would happen with Sib 7.5 but I haven't tried it.) I've got Sib 7.1.3. to use my sound card's ASIO interface. I've got Finale and Sib 7.5 configured to use ASIO4ALL.

Sibelius 7.1.3 lists ASIO4ALL first in it's list of interfaces so I assume it is trying to do something with the ASIO4ALL API and hangs if something else is using the API. Is there some way to tell Sibelius to skip the ASIO4ALL interface? It's sort of ridiculous for Sibelius to hang because of an interface it's not going to use.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.1.3, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Robin Walker - 26 Jul 10:56AM (edited 26 Jul 10:56AM)
ASIO4ALL demands exclusive use of the chosen audio output device. Only one application can use that physical audio output device, via any interface (MME, DS, WASAPI or ASIO).

If a second application tries to use that physical audio output device (via any interface), then usually the second application just cannot produce any audio output, and is silent, without signalling any error.

In your case, Finale using ASIO4ALL takes exclusive use of the audio output device: no other application can get in. Quite what happens when 7.1.3 tries to use the audio card's own native ASIO interface would depend on the writers of that native ASIO interface.

In summary, trying to have multiple applications using any implementation of ASIO on the same audio output device is ill-advised (unless that device has a multi-client native ASIO implementation). One of the advantages of using ASIO is to side-step the audio mixer in Windows, and save some latency thereby. So when you choose to use ASIO, you generally have to make do without mixing multiple applications.

But do make sure that you are using the latest version of ASIO4ALL.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Jul 11:39AM
If you want to have more than one application using an ASIO device, try this:

http://vidance.com/asiomulti/asiomulti.html

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 27 Jul 06:25PM
I had obviously been misunderstanding ASIO. I thought it was the use of the interface, not use of the device, that was single threaded. In other words, I thought I could have one application using ASIO4ALL and another using my M-Audio ASIO interface. I guess I was wrong.

I'll give that ASIO multi-user interface a try. It will obviously introduce some latency but maybe not enough to matter.

BTW, I obviously have no need for multiple applications sending audio signals to my sound card simultaneously (unless I have a sudden desire for cacophony), but I would like to avoid having to continually start and stop those applications as I switch among them.

--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.1.3, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Robin Walker - 27 Jul 07:08PM
With Sibelius, you can set the option to release the audio output device when Sibelius is in the background.

I don't think Finale offers that facility.

--
Sibelius 7.5.1/7.1.3/6.2/5.2.5, PhotoScore Ult 7.0.2, Dolet 6.3 for Sibelius, Windows 7 32-bit SP1, 4GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 27 Jul 08:20PM (edited 27 Jul 10:07PM)
I had some problem with the Sibelius "release" function in the past. I don't remember what the problem was but it required a reboot to fix, so I'm reluctant to use it.

I've downloaded and installed that multi-application ASIO server, but I think I've done something wrong. Sibelius does not see it as an audio device whether the server is running or not.. Finale does see it ... whether it's running or not. I'll spend more time on it later.

Update: The Steinberg ASIO server is a 32 bit program. I assume that is why Sibelius (both 7.1.3 and 7.5) running in 64 bit mode don't see it. And the contact email addr listed in the server's web page doesn't work.



--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.1.3, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is running
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 29 Jul 04:28AM
> ASIO4ALL demands exclusive use of the chosen audio output device. Only one application can use that physical audio output device, via any interface (MME, DS, WASAPI or ASIO).
>
> If a second application tries to use that physical audio output device (via any interface), then usually the second application just cannot produce any audio output, and is silent, without signalling any error.
>
Luckily, things aren't quite as bad as that. It depends on the sound card and it's driver. My sound card - the M-Audio Delta 2496 - allows multi-clients. It has ASIO, MME, WASAPI, and DS interfaces. I'm not sure how many can be used at once, but at least ASIO and whatever Windows 7 uses by default.

But that doesn't help my problem. Finale apparently supports only ASIO (on Windows) and I want Sibelius to use a low latency interface (i.e., ASIO).


--
Patrick O'Keefe

Sib 7.1.3, GPO4, NotePerformer, lots of EWQL stuff
Win7 x64 Pro Intel i7-4771, 3.50Ghz, 16GB RAM
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Finale is... - Patrick O'Keefe, 26 Jul 12:06AM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 26 Jul 10:56AM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 27 Jul 11:39AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 27 Jul 06:25PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Robin Walker, 27 Jul 07:08PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 27 Jul 08:20PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Sibelius startup hangs if Final... - Patrick O'Keefe, 29 Jul 04:28AM