'Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats'

Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps an... - philj, 23 Jun 07:36PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Laurence Payne, 23 Jun 08:39PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Wim Hoogewerf, 24 Jun 05:53AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 24 Jun 09:49PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - James, 25 Jun 04:45AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 25 Jun 11:11AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Bob Zawalich, 25 Jun 04:01PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 25 Jun 08:46PM

Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by philj - 23 Jun 07:36PM
In traditional music using some of the more unusual scales or modes, it would be nice to be able to use a key signature with a mixture of both sharps and flats. At present, I fall back on atonal rather than using a 'near fit' standard key signature which I feel would lead to a misleading interpretation.
I haven't been able to find a way to edit the key signatures. Is there something I've missed ?

--
Philip Jackson
Sibelius 7.1.3 Windows 7 64bit 4Gb ram, 3Ghz
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by Laurence Payne - 23 Jun 08:39PM
If you want this in Sibelius, you'll have to fake it.
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 24 Jun 05:53AM
The way I do it (for Arabic and Turkish music) is to Edit the unused treble clefs (those with 8va, 15ma etc.). First I remove the 8 or 15 and then I add symbols for the sharps, flats and eventually quarter tone accidentals. Next you go to Engraving Rules > Clefs and Key Signatures and set the gap after Clef/Keysignature to, say, 3 spaces.

There are all together 10 clefs in Sibelius for which the 2nd line corresponds to G, so you can make a nice collection of 'Maqam' key signatures.

For what it's worth: I also change the half flat (quartertone flat) into a slashed b.

--
MacOS 10.7.5
Attachment 14 Semai Iraq OUD.sib (31K)
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by philj - 24 Jun 09:49PM
Good suggestion, Wim, thanks. But it's not without complications. If you paste the symbol elsewhere than at the start of a staff, it comes out smaller and the sharp is no longer in the right place. And, of course, when you click the transposing score button, this fabricated symbol doesn't change.

--
Philip Jackson
Sibelius 7.1.3 Windows 7 64bit 4Gb ram, 3Ghz
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by James - 25 Jun 04:45AM (edited 25 Jun 04:54AM)
Wim is telling you the best way to do it. For example, a key sig that has Bb, E natural, and Ab in it would be done:

Make a custom clef:
From House Styles select Edit Symbols.
Scroll down to the treble clef and double click it.
Click Add...
Scroll down to the flat sign and double click it.
Position it using the arrow keys or the number in the box. I used 3.75 horizontal.
Add a natural, position it. I used 1.75 vertical offset and 5.0 horizontal.
Add another flat, position it. I used -0.5 vertical and 6.5 horizontal.
Then click ok.

Such custom key sigs don't transpose or play back correctly. But they look right and this is how you must kluge it in Sib.

--
Mac OS 10.6.8
Sibelius 6.2
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by philj - 25 Jun 11:11AM
Thank you both, Wim and James. I'll be able to work with these suggestions. Since this requirement is not exactly mainstream, I won't hold my breath while waiting for it to appear in a future version.

--
Philip Jackson
Sibelius 7.1.3 Windows 7 64bit 4Gb ram, 3Ghz
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 25 Jun 04:01PM
If you do take this fake-it approach, note that some notes in your new key signature will display accidentals. The downloadable plugin Hide Specific Accidentals (category Accidentals) will hide accidentals on certain pitches only, which can be useful in this scenario.

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2013.
Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps and flats
Posted by philj - 25 Jun 08:46PM
Bob --
Thanks for pointing out that plugin. I've installed it.

--
Philip Jackson
Sibelius 7.1.3 Windows 7 64bit 4Gb ram, 3Ghz
Back to top | All threads
 

Quick reply

To add a reply to the end of this thread, type it below, then click Reply.

(.sib, .png and .jpg only)

Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharps an... - philj, 23 Jun 07:36PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Laurence Payne, 23 Jun 08:39PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Wim Hoogewerf, 24 Jun 05:53AM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 24 Jun 09:49PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - James, 25 Jun 04:45AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 25 Jun 11:11AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - Bob Zawalich, 25 Jun 04:01PM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: Key signatures with mixed sharp... - philj, 25 Jun 08:46PM