'Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths'

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Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 30 Jan 01:46PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jody Hughes, 30 Jan 02:05PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 30 Jan 02:40PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jody Hughes, 30 Jan 03:15PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Derek Bourgeois, 30 Jan 03:22PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jeff Grossman, 30 Jan 06:18PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 01 Feb 02:37PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - phidler, 01 Dec 07:03PM

Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jos Hindriks - 30 Jan 01:46PM (edited 30 Jan 02:03PM)
A quick question:

We are trying to change the stem length overall for a choir piece. We know we can adjust the individual stems, but is there a way to shorten all of them by a set number in the whole score or for a selection of notes?

We've done a search in the manual, on this forum and on google to no avail.

Many thanks in advance for any insight if this is possible. Perhaps there is a plugin?
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jody Hughes - 30 Jan 02:05PM
Hi there

That is an unusual request. Stem length is set based on a number of factors which put beams in sensible places on the stave, and angle them appropriately. Traditionally, an unbeamed note in the staff should have a stem that is exactly an octave long.

Do you actually want to affect all notes? For instance, shortening the stem of a note two ledger lines above (or below) the staff would mean the stem not reaching the middle line of the stave, which it should do.

However, first have a look at the Beams and Stems page of Engraving Rules, where you might be able to massage the settings (especially the 'minimum stem length') to allow a shorter stem.

You can alternatively change stem length by selecting multiple notes and then adjusting the Y-parameter in the Inspector, but you'll have to segregate stem-up notes from stem-down notes first, and also take notes that are beamed together out of the selection (excepting the first one) or weird things will happen.

Perhaps if you could post a short example score with an explanation of what you're trying to accomplish, someone will have a bright idea of how to do it.

Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius 7.1.3 | iMac 3.2GHz i3 | OS X Version 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jos Hindriks - 30 Jan 02:40PM (edited 30 Jan 02:41PM)
This is not so unusual in reduced choral scores. You can encounter it quite often. Other more severely limited note editing programs have this option, and we thought it would be standard in Sibelius. It is incomprehensible that this would have to be done by hand. Selecting note stems individually isn't all that easy.

Would it be possible to make a plug in for this, since the length can be adjusted, you'd think it could be automated?

Hope there is a solution somewhere.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jody Hughes - 30 Jan 03:15PM
Okay, you didn't mention this is in a two-voice context. The normal stem-length rules don't apply, so there is more scope for variation.

I think it's possible for a plug-in to manage this, but I know of none that does it.

In the meantime, here's what I would do:

In the Engraving Rules>Beams and Stems, decrease the default stem-length for beamed notes (8ths and 16ths) and the minimum stem length to appropriate levels. This will affect the short beamed notes immediately.

To affect longer note values (quarter/crotchet and longer):
• Select All
• Filter for Voice 1
• Filter for Notes and Chords
• Advanced Filter to select only note values between a quarter note and a whole note (crotchet and semibreve).
• Decrease the Y-value in the Inspector by whatever value you find appropriate (to a negative number).

Repeat these steps except filter for Voice 2 instead of Voice 1, and increase the Y-value (a positive number)

This won't affect short notes that aren't beamed (i.e. have flags) which I think you have to do manually.

If you have no or few beams, it might make sense to include all notes when adjusting the Y value (so you'd leave out the Advanced Filter step).

Hope that's useful.
Jeremy
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 30 Jan 03:22PM
You can quickly click along the line of stems and adjust all of them simultaneously (see png)

--
Derek Bourgeois, Dorset UK
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel Xeon@3.47 Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 3 TB hard disks (of which 2 TB SSD), Sibelius 7.1.3, Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. M-Box.
Attachment select stems.PNG.png (2K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jeff Grossman - 30 Jan 06:18PM
I do want to mention that Sibelius's rules from stem length are based on "correct" engraving standards -- the old practice of having super-short stems in choral scores is seen as pretty outdated (and unattractive, in my opinion!). This is probably why Sibelius doesn't have an easy, built-in method to shorten everything by some amount.



--
Jeff Grossman
Mac OS X 10.7
Sibelius 6 and 7
Mac and PC
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by Jos Hindriks - 01 Feb 02:37PM
Thanks all for your insights and replies to this thread. I have now completed the score and am happy to say that due to the print and layout quality of Sibelius there was no need to shorten the stem lengths.
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Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths
Posted by phidler - 01 Dec 07:03PM
Ran into this same issue today. I certainly get that there's an accepted standard for stem length, but in my case, I was preparing a brief figure for a document in which it was more important to shorten the stems of half- and quarter-notes on a percussion staff to reduce space below a line of lyrics (actually, instructional text) above.

I was able to accomplish this manually by selecting dozens of stems individually and then shortening one, but the ability to filter all the stems or to edit the default length would certainly have been useful.
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 30 Jan 01:46PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jody Hughes, 30 Jan 02:05PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 30 Jan 02:40PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jody Hughes, 30 Jan 03:15PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Derek Bourgeois, 30 Jan 03:22PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jeff Grossman, 30 Jan 06:18PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - Jos Hindriks, 01 Feb 02:37PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1.3: changing default stem lengths - phidler, 01 Dec 07:03PM