'Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals'

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Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - billworld, 17 Sep 05:01PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 17 Sep 09:51PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - JKeefe, 19 Sep 08:32PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 19 Sep 10:48PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 20 Sep 08:43PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Mike Fackrell, 20 Sep 10:53PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Ryan Janus, 18 Jul 01:12AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - André van Haren, 06 Nov 06:30AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Heather Stenner, 15 Dec 06:31PM

Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by billworld - 17 Sep 05:01PM (edited 19 Sep 01:19AM)
I'm working on my first orchestral notation piece with percussion and while on very tight deadline trying to get everything figured out. I'm using Sibelius sounds 7.1.2.

Lacking orchestral suspended cymbals sounds I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate a drum set crash cymbal (struck with mallets by the percussionist also using timbales). Do I set up a custom drum map with timbales and crash cymbal taken from the basic drum kit? (per page 353 of the manual)

Do cresc. rolls on cymbals work as one might expect?

Lastly, how do I achieve a choke effect?

Thanks much for the help.

Bill
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Jim Stanley - 17 Sep 09:51PM
When you find out, let me know (or if I find out, I'll post here). I'm in the same boat - only the cymbal sound which was sort of strange in v6 is completely absent in v7.

--
Jim Stanley
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by JKeefe - 19 Sep 08:32PM (edited 19 Sep 08:49PM)
Some cymbal tips when working with Sibelius (from a percussionist and percussion arranger):

1. If you have a sampled cymbal roll, notate the roll so that it looks write on paper and then adjust the live start position of the roll to get the climax of the roll to fall where you want it musically.

2. Ideally to place a choked roll into a score, you would use a sample of a choked roll. If you don't have that, perhaps you can approximate by muting the cymbal staff at the choke point (use a "~C7,0" command to lower the volume to zero. Be sure to restore it to the previous level (e.g. "~C7,100" before notating the next thing to be played back. This of course won't sound that realistic, but it's better than having a cymbal roll ringing past where you want it to sound.

I use Virtual Drumline for percussion playback in Sibelius, which comes with a large variety of different types of suspended cymbal rolls: short, medium, and long crescendos, rolls with open and choked releases, hits with sticks and mallets, playing on the bell, scraping with metal, etc. These variety of samples are the key to getting good percussion playback for suspended cymbal sounds. Ideally the library you are using would have at least the basic elements of suspended cymbal playback (a hit with a mallet, an open-release suspended cymbal roll, and a choked-release suspended cymbal roll).

Since I use a dedicated percussion library I'm not familiar with Sib7 sounds, but in such a gigantic library I would hope there would be at least a few good sus. cymbal sounds.
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Jim Stanley - 19 Sep 10:48PM
Thanks for that. It seems strange that both Bill and I have been searching in vain for either a suspended cymbal sound or else a regular cymbal that would play back correctly when the tremolo sign is added.

This is a little frustrating. I'm afraid I may have to create a one-line staff drum kit and set the whole thing up manually, in which case I have no idea how an instrument change to and from such a beast would work.

I do know that Sib uses a pretty large marching percussion library, so I'll have another look there tonight. I do wish someone else would magically pipe up with a solution, though. Surely Bill and I can't be the only ones with this issue.

--
Jim Stanley
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Jim Stanley - 20 Sep 08:43PM
Bill,

Try the cymbal under "Band instruments". I've had better luck with that, even though it's not quite the same as in Sib 6.

--
Jim Stanley
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Mike Fackrell - 20 Sep 10:53PM (edited 20 Sep 10:53PM)
Here's an orchestral suspended cymbal using Sibelius 7 sounds.

You can import the House Style from the attached score if you want to get the Instrument Definition.

Mike

--
Sib. 7.1, Win 7 64-bit, 4GB Ram, M-Audio Keyrig 49, GPO4, Yamaha CVP-405, Tyros 3
www.mikefackrell.co.uk
Attachment Orchestral Percussion.sib (197K)
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Ryan Janus - 18 Jul 01:12AM
Hi, Mike. I'm trying to get your very lovely cymbal roll into my score, but it doesn't seem to be working. Importing the house style doesn't seem to do it, and I still can't even find a suspended cymbal option in the "edit instrument" box. What am I missing?
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by André van Haren - 06 Nov 06:30AM
Thanks so much. Mike! I was looking for a suspended cymbal and this one works perfectly. I searched in the Instrument Change list but I can't find this Suspended Cymbal. Where does it come from?

btw, is the score the percussion section from The Planets, Mars? Impressive music.



> Here's an orchestral suspended cymbal using Sibelius 7 sounds.
>
> You can import the House Style from the attached score if you want to get the Instrument Definition.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Sib. 7.1, Win 7 64-bit, 4GB Ram, M-Audio Keyrig 49, GPO4, Yamaha CVP-405, Tyros 3
> www.mikefackrell.co.uk
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Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals
Posted by Heather Stenner - 15 Dec 06:31PM
Hi Mike,
This is great, but your score has a suspended cymbal instrument listed on the left. I do not see that option anywhere. The only instrument options for cymbals seem to be CYMBAL. I'm assuming you didn't just write in the suspended cymbal text.

I haven't figured out how to update my email in this forum so can you send a note to me at enthusicmusic@gmail.com with your answer? Thanks a bunch!
I appreciate your help!

Heather (In Snowy Colorado!)

--
HP Pavillion dv6000 Windows XP Service Pk2
Intel (R) Pentium (R)4
CPU 2.66 GHz 2.67 GHz
384 MB of Ram
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - billworld, 17 Sep 05:01PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 17 Sep 09:51PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - JKeefe, 19 Sep 08:32PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 19 Sep 10:48PM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Jim Stanley, 20 Sep 08:43PM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Mike Fackrell, 20 Sep 10:53PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Ryan Janus, 18 Jul 01:12AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - André van Haren, 06 Nov 06:30AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: orchestral suspended cymbals - Heather Stenner, 15 Dec 06:31PM