'Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong'

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Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmo... - Peter Jacobs, 13 Jun 10:06PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 13 Jun 11:09PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Peter Jacobs, 13 Jun 11:13PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Adrian Drover, 14 Jun 06:47AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 14 Jun 07:49AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Adrian Drover, 14 Jun 10:58AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 14 Jun 11:19AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - John Murdoch, 14 Jun 02:47PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jesper Elen, 14 Jun 02:50PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Bob Zawalich, 14 Jun 04:08PM

Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Peter Jacobs - 13 Jun 10:06PM
I'm entering a bass part into a score in the key of F (one flat). I'm entering a D-flat from my midi-keyboard, and it always comes up as C-sharp. It would seem to me that Sibelius should favor flats when there are flats in the key signature, and sharps when in the sharp keys, right? What am I doing wrong, or is my assumption wrong?

--
Pete Jacobs
-Pop/Jazz Arranger
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Jeremy Hughes - 13 Jun 11:09PM
Hi there

I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

Obviously (I hope) you're playing both a C# and a D-flat, and Sibelius must choose which to notate.

I don't know what Sibelius is thinking, but perhaps it sees C# as being the leading-note of D minor (the relative minor of F major) and so at least as likely as Db (the flat 6).

Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius 7.1.2 | iMac 3.2GHz i3 | OS X Version 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Peter Jacobs - 13 Jun 11:13PM
On a midi keyboard, you can't differentiate between C# and Db :); Maybe this is something to look into on future versions? Love the program. I use it 5-6 hours every day.

--
Pete Jacobs
-Pop/Jazz Arranger
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Adrian Drover - 14 Jun 06:47AM
I've been shouting for years that Sib's input scale is *wrong* and have been campaigning for a more sensible, if not user definable input scale. It makes much more sense to get -II and -VI than +I and +V. It seems that Sib believes that the input scale for C maj should be the same as that for A min. That is wrong. C maj is much more akin to C min than it is to A min. See page 31 in the ABRSM Guide to Music Theory, Book 1 (Harmonic Chromatic Scale).

A.
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Jeremy Hughes - 14 Jun 07:49AM
Yes, well done you for shouting. Squeaky wheel and grease, and all that, eh?

And thanks for the reference about the harmonic chromatic scale. I'm sure that the only thing stopping Sibelius from changing this is their confusion about what is correct.
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Adrian Drover - 14 Jun 10:58AM
I just know, Jeremy, that I use -II & -VI far more often than I do +I & +V. And what is preventing Sib from at least offering the choice of a user defined input scale. It would be far more useful than the so-called "intelligent" note spelling we have at present.

A.
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Jeremy Hughes - 14 Jun 11:19AM
Sorry, Peter, to hijack your thread.

Adrian: yes, I agree with you that there is room for improvement in this area. I've always thought so.

I can easily guess that 'what is preventing Sib' from fixing it up is a combination of lack of developer time and a other features/fixes with higher priority. You've probably worked that out too, so your question is disingenuous. I think what you're trying to do is to influence the priority of this item.

It's worth noting, I think, that your 'shouting' hasn't had any effect so far, and this area (chromatic mapping of MIDI input) has been in need of improvement as long as I've used Sibelius. My impression is that the number of different users complaining is far more important than the intensity of any one user's complaint.

I try to avoid responding in a thread unless I can help with the user's problem. I don't respond simply to make a point I've made before. I think that contributes to a generally civil tone on this forum.

I'll leave you alone from now on.

J
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by John Murdoch - 14 Jun 02:47PM
Rather than shouting--it might be prudent to see if you could pique Bob Zawalich's interest in creating a plug-in.

Mapping input inbound might require a significant amount of development. Creating a plug-in that combines a bit of a UI with a search and replace function (when you see C# change it to Db) might be a simpler thing.

That doesn't give you the immediate visual feedback (after something like ten years with Sibelius I still get a bang out of watching the notes appear on the stave)--but it would at least get your notes right.

A thought for you....

--
Sibelius 2 - 7.1 | Hauptwerk 4
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel i5 quad CPU, 8 GB RAM | M-Audio Fast Track C600
Keurig B60
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Jesper Elen - 14 Jun 02:50PM
There is Respell uncommon accidentals or simplify accidentals plugins.

Jesper
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Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmonically Wrong
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 14 Jun 04:08PM
There are also Pitch Mapping and Transform Scale which can accomplish some of that, but it is a bit tedious to do so, and it is indeed after the fact.

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2012.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enharmo... - Peter Jacobs, 13 Jun 10:06PM
     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 13 Jun 11:09PM
         Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Peter Jacobs, 13 Jun 11:13PM
             Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Adrian Drover, 14 Jun 06:47AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 14 Jun 07:49AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Adrian Drover, 14 Jun 10:58AM
                         Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jeremy Hughes, 14 Jun 11:19AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - John Murdoch, 14 Jun 02:47PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Jesper Elen, 14 Jun 02:50PM
                                     Re: Sib. 7.1: Note Entry from Midi Keyboard Enh... - Bob Zawalich, 14 Jun 04:08PM