Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (compar... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 04:15AM
     Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 04:16AM
         Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 23 Aug 08:15AM
             Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 09:26AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 09:30AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 10:31PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 24 Aug 08:01AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 11 May 03:49PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 11 May 09:40PM

Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 23 Aug 04:15AM
Hi there

I'm new on this forum so I hope this was not already discussed...
These are some questions for Sibelius music-xml developers.

I am using a computer-aided composition composition program called PWGL
( http://www2.siba.fi/PWGL/ ), which is pretty much like OpenMusic from Ircam but... better and free :)
It contains a fine musicXML exporter since a few months. The library for the export can be found here : http://sprotte.org/perm/musicxml-pwgl.html

Most of the tests were done by the author, Kilian Sprotte, in Finale Reader, not in Sibelius.
I did a few ones myself with Sib 6 and 7, and most of the details are well transfered, like dynamics, some expressions (slurs, fermata, accents, tenuto, etc.) and even quarter-tones. For now this is quite good ! =)

Strangely, a few details go wrong, even with Sib 7 :
- metronome changes are displayed very very small, even when they come from xml done in Sibelius itself (this can be annoying, even if filters can solve it quickly)
- nested rhythms, which are perfectly imported in Finale, are strangely coming into Sibelius, sometimes eating some values with no reason
- grace notes, for which the display can be strange too (this can be solved quickly with "middle of beam" button) ; most of all, grace notes at the end of the bar just disappear...

I attach some examples with screenshots of PWGL and export to Finale (which proves the export is fine from our side) and Sibelius equivalent file.
I also put everything in a zip file that can be found here :
http://www.mediafire.com/?5dyn8az7zf7xi9o

I perfectly know these two examples are a bit extreme, but I'm sure I'm not the only one dealing with this kind of stuff... :)
Do you think this could be solved in future updates, as you're doing a lot of efforts on MusicXML right now? I think it doesn't concern only me or PWGL community, but the differences on how Finale and Sibelius handle this.

Many thanks in advance for your help
All my best

Julien

--
Composer - Laptop improvizer - Musician-researcher
soundcloud.com/julienvincenot
soundcloud.com/unmapped

Running : Sibelius 7 / MacBook Pro 2,8 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 4 GB RAM / Mac OS 10.6.8
Attachment nested-rtm-example.png (78K)

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 23 Aug 04:16AM
Attachments nested-in-finale.png (255K), nested-rtm-test.sib (32K), grace-notes-test.png (99K), grace-in-finale.png (503K), grace-notes-test.sib (32K)

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 23 Aug 08:15AM
Thanks for your reports, Julien. We will log these issues and look into them. It would be useful to receive from you the MusicXML files that produced these results: perhaps you could email them to me?

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Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 23 Aug 09:26AM
Dear Daniel
Thanks for your answer.
Actually, the xml files are in the archive I put on mediafire in my first message.
I hope this can help, please tell me if it leads to something... =)
Cheers
J.

--
Composer - Laptop improvizer - Musician-researcher
soundcloud.com/julienvincenot
soundcloud.com/unmapped

Running : Sibelius 7 / MacBook Pro 2,8 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 4 GB RAM / Mac OS 10.6.8

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 23 Aug 09:30AM
( I don't have an example concerning the tempo changes.
You can do it yourself exporting from Sibelius 7 then
opening the xml files directly in Sib.
The tempo changes are then microscopic.
They are also doubled for each of them, for no reason. )

--
Composer - Laptop improvizer - Musician-researcher
soundcloud.com/julienvincenot
soundcloud.com/unmapped

Running : Sibelius 7 / MacBook Pro 2,8 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 4 GB RAM / Mac OS 10.6.8

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 23 Aug 10:31PM
Hi again Daniel
Did you found the musicxml files finally?
All my best
J.

--
Composer - Laptop improvizer - Musician-researcher
soundcloud.com/julienvincenot
soundcloud.com/unmapped

Running : Sibelius 7 / MacBook Pro 2,8 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo / 4 GB RAM / Mac OS 10.6.8

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 24 Aug 08:01AM
I have downloaded them.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help online:
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Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Julien Vincenot - 11 May 03:49PM
Dear Daniel

I know this topic has been off for a long time, but I was wondering if the dev team ever has in mind to solve someday these errors I pointed out.

Many updates of Sib 7 came in the mean time (almost a year) and nothing was resolve until now. Do you know if this is on the to-do list?

These don't concern only myself (as PWGL user) but the communication between Finale and Sibelius :
- font size of tempo marks extremely reduced for no reason

- unclear status of grace notes before a new barline (no problem in Finale, disappear in Sibelius)
-> wouldn't it be possible to translate these as grace notes AFTER the barline (just before the beat) if Sibelius cannot understand it? When I want to write it myself this is the trick I need to use, then move the notes manually before the barline.

- unclear translation of nested rhythms, even easy ones (sometimes values disappear for no reason, resulting in septuplets with 6 beats for instance...)

Tell me if you lost the examples, I can send these back.
Thanks in advance for your help
Best
Julien

PS : Oh and by the way, I recently changed my machine to something quite more substantial (see above). And Sib 7 is still very slow when scrolling through scores with the touchpad, even in small ones...

--
Composer - Laptop improvizer - Musician-researcher
soundcloud.com/julienvincenot
soundcloud.com/unmapped

Running : Sibelius 7 / MacBook Pro 2,2 Ghz Intel Core i7 / 8 GB RAM / Mac OS 10.6.8

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Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (comparison with Finale)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 11 May 09:40PM
If you still find Sibelius slow even after the Sibelius 7.1.2 update, can you please send me your Apple System Profile, the score you're working on, and a screen capture video recorded using QuickTime Player?

I can't make any specific commitment to when we will be able to improve any particular feature in the program, whether it's MusicXML import or something else, but we do certainly hope to improve MusicXML import and export further in future versions.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help online:
http://www.sibelius.com/helpcenter/contact.html

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (compar... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 04:15AM
     Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 04:16AM
         Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 23 Aug 08:15AM
             Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 09:26AM
                 Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 09:30AM
                     Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 23 Aug 10:31PM
                         Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 24 Aug 08:01AM
                             Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Julien Vincenot, 11 May 03:49PM
                                 Re: Sib. 7.0: advanced XML import from PWGL (co... - Daniel Spreadbury, 11 May 09:40PM