'Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?'

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Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parenth... - Barb Telford, 22 Aug 12:54AM
     Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Aug 07:22AM
         Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 04:37PM
             Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 22 Aug 06:16PM
                 Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Derek Williams, 22 Aug 07:02PM
                     Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 07:59PM
                         Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 23 Aug 05:04AM
                             Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 23 Aug 06:50AM
                                 Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 23 Aug 04:45PM

Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Barb Telford - 22 Aug 12:54AM
Page 179 of Sibelius First users manual says:

Notes in parentheses
You can add parentheses (round brackets) to any notehead (including grace notes) using the
button on the second Keypad layout (shortcut F8). The parentheses will automatically
adjust to enclose accidentals, etc.

But I do not have the parentheses button!

What am I missing, besides the button?

The Pre-bend Note button highlighted in the attached does not allow me to simply add parentheses around a snare note.

Thanks.
Attachment Keypad.PNG.png (18K)

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Martin P. Kellogg - 22 Aug 07:22AM
It looks like Sibelius First doesn't have the key you need (screen shot of full Sibelius keypad). I'm not sure why it would be mentioned in the manual.

--
Martin

Sibelius 7.01 & 6.2, Core i5 M560 2.67 GHz, 8 GB, Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit.
Sibelius 6.2, Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz, 3 GB usable, Windows XP Pro SP3 32-bit (rarely used now).
Shared second monitor (1920x1200), KeyRig 49, Echo Indigo IOx audio interface. Year 2011
Attachment Parens.png (40K)

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Aug 04:37PM
Agreed - First does not support this.

As in many cases for First and Student, though, if you can get such a note into a score you can use it, and change the pitches and durations, etc, just not the paren property.

Attached is a small score containing parenthesized quarter notes. You could open the score in First (assuming you have Sib 6 First), copy one of the notes, and paste it into your score.

It will retain the parentheses even when you change other properties.

So it is awkward, but not impossible. Given the choice, I pick awkward every time!

Hope this helps,

Bob

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2011.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm
Attachment Parenthesized snare.sib (30K)

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Barb Telford - 22 Aug 06:16PM
Thanks for your comments.

Wow, I tried to research the limitations of Sibelius and nowhere did it say basic drum notation could not be entered.

In fact even the user manual says it is possible to use parentheses for ghost notes.

I would venture awkward is impossible if all one wants to do is enter simple drum notation.

I am very frustrated that I wasted my money on this program and would suggest the advertising is far from accurate.

If my only alternative is to buy the full Sibelius propduct, think I may switch to Finale as they seem to have teamed up with Berklee College of Music for training options.

Any other suggestions?

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Derek Williams - 22 Aug 07:02PM (edited 22 Aug 07:05PM)
[post deleted - already answered above]

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 22 Aug 07:59PM
In notation for most instruments, parenthesized notes are not a basic notation device, so you are unfortunate in that the instrument you want to notate needs this feature.

Sibelius First and Student definitely have fewer features than the full Sibelius.

It may still be cheaper to upgrade to full Sibelius than to buy Finale. The last I knew there was not an official upgrade mechanism, but you could buy the competitive crossgrade (that is intended for users of Finale and other competing products) for $200 or so, and then email Daniel Spreadbury, the Sibelius produce manager, to help process it.

Here is a thread where Daniel described the process:

http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/chat/chat.pl?com=thread&start=552950&groupid=3&words=crossgrade%20first&name=dan*#552950

Personally, I would not touch Finale with a 10 foot pole, but it may work for you, so you should check it out. I suggest trying before you buy if that is possible. There is a demo version of full Sibelius 7 that you can download and try out, so that might also be worth doing.

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2011.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Barb Telford - 23 Aug 05:04AM
Thanks Bob,

I really appreciate your kind efforts and your workaround, complete with score of various ghosted notes, was quite elegant rather than awkward. My apologies for my attitude, it certainly wasn't meant to be directed at you.

Unfortunately, can't seem to copy the ghosted notes into triplets, arghhhhhh!

Guess I'll have to bit the bullet and upgrade, thanks for the advice, hope Daniel's process is available to all.

Barb

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 23 Aug 06:50AM
Actually, you can convert a parenthesized note into a tuplet in First just fine.

So say you want a triplet of quarter notes. Start by copying a parenthesized quarter note where you want the triplet. Then type ctrl-3 and you will see the triplet bracket. Type R twice to make copies of the note in parens, and then adjust the pitches.

You can also copy a paren note and paste it into an existing tuplet.

So you might still want to do the upgrade, but I think you can actually make tuplets out of these kinds of notes fairly easily.

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2011.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com/DownloadPagePlugins.htm, www.bobzawalich.com/Sib6ShippingPlugins.htm

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Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parentheses around snare note) for drums?
Posted by Barb Telford - 23 Aug 04:45PM
Thanks again, Bob.

Actually I tried both and was unsuccessful, before my last thread, but its probably just me.

I went ahead and ordered the update, hope the learning curve to 7.0 isn't too huge.

Barb

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Messages in this thread

Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (parenth... - Barb Telford, 22 Aug 12:54AM
     Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Aug 07:22AM
         Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 04:37PM
             Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 22 Aug 06:16PM
                 Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Derek Williams, 22 Aug 07:02PM
                     Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 22 Aug 07:59PM
                         Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 23 Aug 05:04AM
                             Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Bob Zawalich, 23 Aug 06:50AM
                                 Re: Sib. First: How do I enter ghost notes (par... - Barb Telford, 23 Aug 04:45PM